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Question tossing Batarangs and using trait as defense

IIRC, when the game first came out, a remember a lot of Batman players sitting back and tossing batarangs swell as using the bats trait as a way of defense was a reliable strategy. I think REO was one of the players I saw doing this many times in the early stages of the game.

Obviously with some of the patches things got changed around for every character. Now practically all the Batman players I see are playing him more rushdown and noone is using the previous strategy.

I guess my question would be, would that old strategy be a way to play Batman still? Or is everything changed around so much that it's no longer viable?
 

Gh0sty

ばかみたいに無料
You can still play batman in a defensive zoning style. As the game developed, it became apparent that his value was more about resets and mixups, but he can lame it out with a life lead and some meter pretty well.
 

Billy Dha Kid

Day 1 phenomenal grab immune
Premium Supporter
IIRC, when the game first came out, a remember a lot of Batman players sitting back and tossing batarangs swell as using the bats trait as a way of defense was a reliable strategy. I think REO was one of the players I saw doing this many times in the early stages of the game.

Obviously with some of the patches things got changed around for every character. Now practically all the Batman players I see are playing him more rushdown and noone is using the previous strategy.

I guess my question would be, would that old strategy be a way to play Batman still? Or is everything changed around so much that it's no longer viable?
Works against Grundy so yes
 

SneakyTortoise

Official Master of Salt
Director of Content
Bats used to recharge so quickly you were practically never without them. That's what made his projectile zoning so powerful. You won't have the most success if that's how you try to play with him 100% of the time. Batman is a utility character that doesn't excel at any one thing but is good at almost everything. To play successfully with him you have to be able to adapt and know when to rush down and when to zone. This is what arma, king and pl are great at
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Honestly, the best Batmen are the ones who mix in a little of both when appropriate.

Now, I think that a zoning Batman can work just fine. You just have to be a little more careful, especially with how you place yourself on the screen. There are a lot of projectiles you can jump and release trait on reaction and get a full combo with a dash in. It is very tricky to do, but very possible. You don't want to place yourself exactly at full-screen. More like 3/4s or so.

Then, it's just a matter of knowing which projectiles you can do this with. Batman's zoning is still solid, but trait bats are best used for counter zoning, in my opinion.

Plus, you still have long reaching normals like B3, F2, and B2 which can help somewhat in the spacing game.
 

Mr Aquaman

Tourny Master
I know I am personally relieved when batman players use them more offensively. It is very hard to approach the character sitting on them but batman going in is fairly easy to deal with depending on your character. I remember armas tear and his anti air bat into b3 was one of the most defensively crazy things I got to witness. Usually when you think bats you think free pressure. It may be MU dependant, like a defensive stance with bats would be the approach to MMH but grundy and a few others may be gogogo. Either way the methodical games behind his trait is some of the best Injustice to watch period. I know non nrs guys that know king and his foreverpressure lol
 

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
Along with the trait nerf, the game has evolved to the point where other characters outzone or counter-zone Batman. Off the top of my head, Aquaman, MMH, Zod, GL, Sinestro, DS and Raven all shut down his zoning pretty hard. Even characters like BG and NW can be a problem with the right reads. Utilizing his frame traps, trait mixups and resets is overall more viable at this point in the games life.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
I'm not sure i agree with DS. You can punish low guns with trait fairly easily.
 

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
DS low guns from half screen to full screen are unpunishable. Whenever Batman gets closer, DS shouldn't be using his zoning tools as now he is in footsie range. Plus, DS has the ability to MB the guns, which is much harder to punish with trait and can sometimes lead to Batman getting hit and losing the trait.

Besides, we are talking about Batman from a zoning perspective, which DS is clearly better at. If we are talking footsies, then yes Batman is better than DS with trait.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
DS' zoning can be punished midscreen if you have a tracking projectile.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
I am fairly certain that you can crouch block the guns, release trait and MB grapple for a full combo. I will try it tomorrow morning. Trait is +46 on hit, afterall.
 

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
I am fairly certain that you can crouch block the guns, release trait and MB grapple for a full combo. I will try it tomorrow morning. Trait is +46 on hit, afterall.
If you do get the hit with trait, you can combo in the grapple easily.

I just tested it out myself. Since Batman's trait is different depending on which side he is on, the punishing of DS low guns is different.

If Batman is on the left, he must have all 3 bats to punish at slightly-less-than midscreen. Anything less than 3 bats, and you essentially can't punish low guns unless he does it a character length away, which almost never happens.

If Batman is on the right, he only needs 1 bat to punish at slightly-less-than midscreen.

Having a side specific punish that depends on being at just the right spacing is tenuous at best. Especially when you consider that getting a full combo punish requires either A) performing a reversal grapple or B) timing a perfect dash to connect standing 1. When it comes down to it, DS wins the zoning and chip battle, forcing Batman to work his way in and play footsies.
 

Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
Batman's zoning is still highly effective in some matchups if done correctly.Also theres a time and place to zone the characters who out zone you, for example if your opponent is knocked down and you think you can chip him out if you have meter for exbatarangz + bats, go for it. Also if you call in bats after a combo ending in b23xxcall bats and throw batarangs asap it must be blocked if they dont wake up or tech roll. but Both options prove to be deadly because if your reactions are on point you can detonate rangz and block.... And proceed to punish there wake up with bats. I could talk about the deepness of the mind games and benefits you gain once they respect this but that would take a whole explanation that is way to long lol..
With that being said before the b23 patch and bat recovery I considered him a viable Zoner.
 

RelentlessOhio

Divekick x 1000
Batman's zoning is still highly effective in some matchups if done correctly.Also theres a time and place to zone the characters who out zone you, for example if your opponent is knocked down and you think you can chip him out if you have meter for exbatarangz + bats, go for it. Also if you call in bats after a combo ending in b23xxcall bats and throw batarangs asap it must be blocked if they dont wake up or tech roll. but Both options prove to be deadly because if your reactions are on point you can detonate rangz and block.... And proceed to punish there wake up with bats. I could talk about the deepness of the mind games and benefits you gain once they respect this but that would take a whole explanation that is way to long lol..
With that being said before the b23 patch and bat recovery I considered him a viable Zoner.
That's the problem, as a Batman main, there are very few scenarios where Batman has an advantage by zoning. And he really wasn't that viable pre-patch either.

I love Batman, but he's got his weaknesses like everyone else in the game. And zoning is definitely one of them.
 

Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
He has zoning shenanigans that are really hard to deal with for some characters... You gotta laugh at how hard it is for wonder woman to get in on you when you have a bat out and one in reserve. Up batarang release bat is like wall that's impassable for her lol. Its also sooooo silly how hard it is for her to clear an ex batarang . if you know how to play the player by abusing whether or not you are gonna detonate they actually start to block the chip. It only takes about three blocked batarangs to build a bar.... If they get ballsy and try to jump the rang and you want to save meter... Throw a regular rang out and after the right amount of delay release a bat and they jump in to the bat!!! You could throw batarangs for chip or you could use this time while they are downed to create distance. His zoning game may not be the best in the game but it sure is a lot of fun...
 

Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
Oh and you can't even say you don't feel like a boss when you punish their dash with a naked b3...