Top priority fixes for UMK11

[scrubjesus111]

First off- patch has been great. I love the direction that MK is going in, and it’s making me optimistic that we might actually see some of the following addressed:

Accidental breakaways and environment interactions - just give us an option to put these on the stance-switch button (default left trigger)- easy fix right?

Weak>Dead kustom moves. I understand this will not be a simple fix and will take time, I just really hope they have a plan at this point as there are a ton of moves that are just sitting there like rocks, doing nothing, and certain characters are painfully lacking in new viable, fun variations. Ex: Scorpion.

Jumping still too strong- maybe increase flawless block window? Idk honestly.

Fatal Blows should come back 15 seconds after use instead of 10, or not at all.

Hitboxes/hurtboxes. Still plenty to iron out.

What do you think?

 

[RoboCop]

I just want a functional fucking character, regardless of kompetitive or kustom variations. Poor RoboCop's only real kustom option was replacing Wrist Rocket with Command Grab, so he can play his zoning variation with a command grab instead of a worse zoning tool than default cannon. This allows him to get a whopping 24% 1-bar midscreen if he hits with his 19-frame mid... In the neutral, the grab is borderline useless due to it's lack of a hitbox.

They banned his only unused kustom move, which is a shitty mid projectile that doesn't even go full screen. No loss there. But then they made it illegal to use his Command Grab and Flamethrower in the same variation. I guess those 18% 1-bar kombos were just a bit too crazy for NRS's balance team to deal with.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

I hope they revert the faster wakeup animation change. This has had no positive effect, only negative ones.

Getting punished on breakaway is more prevalent than before

Less knockdown advantage means some characters can't oki anymore

The sped up get up animation means you have less time to react to it

Honestly one of the stupidest changes they made that no one asked for

 

[Pyrosis]

I hope they revert the faster wakeup animation change. This has had no positive effect, only negative ones.

Getting punished on breakaway is more prevalent than before

Less knockdown advantage means some characters can't oki anymore

The sped up get up animation means you have less time to react to it

Honestly one of the stupidest changes they made that no one asked for

I think more play time will warm you to the wake up animation being faster. It actually allows for exact timings on meaties if that's what you're trying to do so there's no blame to be had other than having bad timing or opponent calling out you're trying to pressure on wakeup.

 

[scrubjesus111]

@Trini_Bwoi Personally I wouldn’t say it’s had no positive effect - the new getup time has a couple advantages imo: 1. Improves the pace of the match 2. Knockdown data becomes more relevant - on offense you can mix up your opponent by switching between high and low advantage knockdowns, since the latter forces them to make faster decisions with the shorter getup time.

Tbh I’m not totally sold on 2, but 1 is definitely a positive imo.

That said you made good points about the negatives - I think this is something we’ll have to observe over time as Ultimate’s meta evolves and people adapt to it.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Accidental breakaways and environment interactions - just give us an option to put these on the stance-switch button (default left trigger)- easy fix right?

I agree that breakaway input could be better served on the stance button or something, but the issue with making interact use the stance button is it will overlap and could cause you to take an interactable instead of delay wakeup, or you end up taking one by accident after waking up trying to roll or something.

It should be noted that they originally never had an amplify button and each move had its own separate amplify input similar to how Jax' rockets work. They added an amp button after fan feedback basically shit all over this idea, but as to why they chose the same function as interact (1+2) is anyone's guess.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Besides character specific changes I think hitboxes need to be fixed in the next patch. They said they where making fatal blows punishable, I don't see it at all, most are still mad pushback safe as can be.

I like the faster wake-up change with limited getup delays. Makes meaties so much stronger as long as you kill frame to oki

 

[scrubjesus111]

I like the faster wake-up change with limited getup delays. Makes meaties so much stronger as long as you kill frame to oki

“Kill frame to oki”? Like in dbfz?

 

[Evil Canadian]

shanoe kagn

 

[Blazeglory88]

Dead kustoms should be addressed. Some moves out there just see no use, like Dancing fans or Scorpions fireball throw. They honestly should have just made everything 1 slot and tweaked it or added some of the more dead moves and string extenders to base kit for more variety.
Fatal Blows should be one use and cost at least one offense and defense bar each or full meter to use.
I never liked breakaway as a mechanic and I honestly can't see any easy way to fix it without just adding more practical armor breakers.

 

[Eddy Wang]

You can duck shallowed jump kicks and force them to whiff, and jab deep jump kicks if they are trying to catch you ducking, the attack can't make both options work.

If you want to cover both options, use the Ninja Killa tech, duck and as you release duck, you press guard, this will make you flawless block in a3 frame active window, if their attack has started as you ducked and you are standing up, then it's a free FLB.

On the other hand, i expect Jump in punches to not cancel into anything on ground if flawless blocked, because sometimes you FLB a jump punch and when you try to launch they still combo you off it as well. but then again, jump punches are easier to anti air.

What i do against jumps, it's to walk out of their range as they jump, or backdash when i can, this helps to keep them at bay and avoid a lot of jump attacks, as they become easier to trip guard punish on the ground.
When this happens they start to jump without attacks, so jab AAs become easier to do.

 

[Eddy Wang]

there are several ways to deal with jumps, you can even jump 1 up front to anticipate jump ins the game even tells you this, but it's more riskier, as if doesn't pan out they can trip guard punish you after, but still work.

The vid where rewind was jump kicking dragon's crouch block all day was bullshit, dragon could D2 cage at anytime and he didn't bothered to do this.

What happens it's mostly any ppl that played MK games before it's used to AA ppl with jabs, and at least in MK11, jabs are not always the best option to AA ppl out of the air, uppercuts are legit anti-airs as they lower your hitbox and hit ppl trying to shallow jump kick you all day, but players ignore it because it doesn't gives you a full combo.

 

[scrubjesus111]

@Eddy Wang Yeah I try to space to trip guard or jab AA when there’s enough distance. There are closer distances though where it’s just hard to deal with, like in Dragon’s video ( how’d you know I had that in mind?), I’m not convinced d2 is a good option at point blank range - at least I get hit out of it all the time or it just misses - but maybe there is already some tech like the ninjakilla tech I’m not using.

Edit: I just thought of a case in point - Semiij regularly empty jumps completely over his opponent and does a d3/4 after he lands on the other side. He wouldn’t be able to do that if his opponents could confidently AA with a d2.

 

[Evil Canadian]

Dead kustoms should be addressed. Some moves out there just see no use, like Dancing fans or Scorpions fireball throw.

I actually like scorp fireball. its a mid projectile, and gives someone a reason to respect him from full screen cause before there really wasn't one.

 

[scrubjesus111]

@Evil Canadian Ah man don’t say that, that move is so meh lol. I’ll admit it’s better than dancing fans though.

 

[Evil Canadian]

@Evil Canadian Ah man don’t say that, that move is so meh lol. I’ll admit it’s better than dancing fans though.

like it aint great for sure, but it legit plugs a hole in scorps gameplan. Plus lots of people would kill for a mid projectile

 

[Eddy Wang]

@Eddy Wang Yeah I try to space to trip guard or jab AA when there’s enough distance. There are closer distances though where it’s just hard to deal with, like in Dragon’s video ( how’d you know I had that in mind?), I’m not convinced d2 is a good option at point blank range - at least I get hit out of it all the time or it just misses - but maybe there is already some tech like the ninjakilla tech I’m not using.

Edit: I just thought of a case in point - Semiij regularly empty jumps completely over his opponent and does a d3/4 after he lands on the other side. He wouldn’t be able to do that if his opponents could confidently AA with a d2.

They jumping at you at closer distance they risk several things:
a) tracking(auto face) it's not as previous games so they risk their attack to whiff at closer range if you crouch block to force a whiff.
b) Aim the trajectory to fall at the top of your head by giving a space before jump, risk you walking out and trip guard punish, or worse, deep jump kicks can get jab Anti-aires much eaier
c) While standing flawless block works in these situation regardless.

And I'm not talking about uppercuts.

 

[scrubjesus111]

And I'm not talking about uppercuts.

I think you were saying Dragon could have uppercutted Rewind to stop his point blank jumping, which is where I think a d2 is iffy (well, for most characters), and you can get full combo punished if you’re interrupted or if you miss. IMO jumping shouldn’t be quite as strong as it is at this range.

Again, maybe the ninjakilla tech solves it - I’ll have to give that a shot.

 

[scrubjesus111]

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

“Kill frame to oki”? Like in dbfz?

Maybe I said the wrong term, don't know what it's called in MK but after knocking down your opponent having 40-50 frames of advantage you use a button that eats up the frames between your meaty.
Like Mileenas s1 eats up 30f with its startup, Active and recovery and her main ender is +39 that makes her B1 come out just frame of their wakeup buttons.

I believe it's called kill frame buttons when you are using a move before your meaty to take up those frames so you meaty perfectly

 

[scrubjesus111]

@LawAbidingCitizen Yeah that’s what it means in dbfz. I guess it wasn’t useful before which is why I’ve never heard of it in the context of MK.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Frame killing has been a thing for ages in various games, usually Street Fighter.

 

[NappyNuisance]

Frost F2 whiffing on crouch block.

 

[Pyrosis]

Frame killing is very effective in MK11 currently, if you're having so much trouble hitting meaty pressure

 

[Alex_Smith]

I mostly agree, and at least some of this I requested in a thread about a year and a half ago. Have to say, though, that they did already make early jump kicks negative on block. Jump kicks are still very good, but if you are unable to anti-air, you can just block and take your turn. If you're on point, you get an anti-air or flawless block punish.

Here's what I suggested before. (Only the last suggestion was implemented.)

• An extra frame of leniency for button shortcuts. It's currently very easy to get, for example, standing 3 instead of throw when pressing 1+3. Hitting the two buttons just a frame apart should still yield the shortcut move. This is currently a serious issue that can easily end up changing the outcome of a match, as it affects throws, Interact, Flip Stance, and, perhaps to a slightly lesser extent, Fatal Blow.

• Special move cancels working after an extra button press during strings. For example, if you press 44 and cancel into a special move, that works, but if you press 44 and then an extra 4 during the end of the string, it no longer becomes possible to cancel the string into a special move. It's like you are locked out from doing any cancels if you press anything extra at all after inputting a string. This can cause dropped combos, and also prevents double-tapping in certain cases, which is a staple technique for many fighting game players. If this really is very purposefully by design, I'd be curious to know the reasoning behind it.

• The ability to completely unset buttons in the options. (For those of us who use button shortcuts like 1+3 for throws, 1+2 for Interact, 3+4 for Flip Stance, and 3+4+Block for Fatal Blow, having any extra buttons set is just a hindrance, especially since they can be pressed by accident. Additionally, being able to set L3 and R3 would be nice.

• A notation display configuration toggle in the options. (It would be great to show the moves as 1, 2, 3, and 4 instead of the buttons.

• A list of the button shortcuts. Including this seems both necessary and helpful. There's no way to tell, in-game, what they are otherwise. I knew about some of them because I play competitively, and some (like throws) are mentioned in the command list. But Interact being 1+2, for example, is something that I missed for a long time. Let's make this easy for everyone learning the game.

• More details on special moves in the move lists. For example, armor and the frames on which it is active during Fatal Blows, Skarlet's Bloodport In Front and Bloodport Behind taking 1 bar of meter, etc.