Strategy - Raiden Thunder ''God'' is out.. All hail Displacer!!

[Nivek]

The new patch hit all the characters and brought a new era on our game..
These changes nerfed the run cancel characters, armor launchers and buffed pressure! This is my opinion about TG and if anyone wants to keep playing him ...GOOD LUCK!
Buffs for all Variations:

• Superman(bf3) recovery on whiff is great now and he can't be whiff punished THAT easy as pre-patch. Also has 2 hits of armor! (Good anti-zoning tool)
• DF2 is a mid now and MAYBE will some abusing down pokes after our poke of course. (Btw d1 df2 can be interrupted by 7f moves/specials which means is still punishable on block)
• *SEMI-BUFF* ex db2 is a mid now, still safe on block (-2) and 2 hits of armor but without a knock down.
• AA buffs in general.

Buffs for TG:

• Pressure is strongrer because there are no launchers with armor or they are need 2 to launch.

Nerfs for TG:

• No double pressure with b11 fbrc. That was a great mind game with TG and now with the higher stamina costing is available only once. Huge nerf IMO, because not only you can hit confirm anything, you can't even run a bit and go for b11 cancel because you will run out of stamina.
• His combos became more strict and you have to go for easier less damaging combos. The combos out of df2 ex,B2,3~4 and 2~1~3 midscreen are way harder now.
• His defence is worse now(as many many other of course) because of the armored launchers. But still for TG was a good solution against heavy zoning characters like SZ grandmaster. Now this MU for example is waaaaay harder.
• *SEMI-NERF* Maybe the anti-airs got buffed but he still lacks his df2 ex for a solid launcher anti-air without the risk of getting hit. Also db2 ex has worse recovery on hit in the air knock down making almost impossible to convert out of it unless the opponent is above your head.
• No more safe 50/50 in the corner with b3~2/b2 db2ex because of the knock back change.
• STILL NO GOOD MID MOVE IN MIDSCREEN!

On the other hand , Displacer kept everything he had! No combo nerfs, but buffs with the more damaging db2 and 4~4 being cancelable. He is the only variation with a safe 50/50 with b2 ex teleport without a setup. His pressure with ex teleport and far teleport is the same.Safer wake up options if you dont feel confident to wake up ex teleport. Strong 6f punish (27% ~32% meterless). He is the best variation of raiden now.

I'm not gonna drop Raiden YET. I will try Displacer as hard as i can until the end of the game..
Peace.

PS: MoS still sucks...... but he is better than TG maybe lol

 

[Tanno]

Well, now that explains your dropping on TG Raiden. The stamina nerf is game-wise, so it affects ALL of the chars. I did read about this in patch notes that the stamina cost for all chars rose to 25 from pre-patch's 15.

Try the EX teleportation to replace TG Raiden's LRC. This one is meter dependant, but meh...

 

[BlackJackSnack]

no more 5050 corners

 

[DDutchguy]

Agreed. Thunder God took a big hit for me so I'll likely switch to Displacer instead. At least one of Raiden's variations is now reaching for the top.

 

[ganondeurf]

Well there is a considerable option that we didn't take into account with the fact we lost the armor launcher.
It means more meaty are viable in corner (34 for example) and we can do some tricky shits because now, people won't try to do that much armor than before. Most of the armors are unsafe (so we feel happy to get a double armor spammable, because during a standing pressing, almost nothing can break it, no don't say XRAY please xD)

 

[Darth-Nero]

Can we suggest some universal changes that will help all 3 Raiden variations become viable in the current meta?
I'll start:

F2 is now 9 frames (down from 16)
F244 is now special cancelable
df2 shocker can now be meter burned on hit to launch

 

[Raidenwins]

Can we suggest some universal changes that will help all 3 Raiden variations become viable in the current meta?
I'll start:

F1 is now 9 frames (down from 16)
F144 is now special cancelable
df1 shocker can now be meter burned on hit to launch

I can't decide if you are joking or not, but here goes: F1 is 6 frames, F144 and DF1 don't exist.

 

[Darth-Nero]

I can't decide if you are joking or not, but here goes: F1 is 6 frames, F144 and DF1 don't exist.

ugh, I always type 1 when i actually mean 2. To think i made this mistake 3 times in a raw is just..derp

Anyway fixed.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

Switching to Displacer ain't gonna be easy, looking forward to it though

 

[DarksydeDash]

I have been learning this variation and it is so fun and amazing. X3 f12b2 is worth the practice.

 

[Nivek]

I have been learning this variation and it is so fun and amazing. X3 f12b2 is worth the practice.

On most males f12b2 X3 doesn't work.. f12b2 run f12b2 run f12 bf3(28%) is my new bnb.. BUT the second part whiff on some characters(i.e. Goro).. next option f12b2 11 run f12b2 bf3(27%) works on everyone..

 

[N00B]

Well maybe dislpacer is good, because displacer has that ex teleport, it has very fast startup with armor that give him safe mix ups, that can do full combo for meter and pressure for meter and more options but other variations are not good enough. He has only one good variation, but kinda frustraiting that other cool variation like Thunder God is not good enough.


Can Raiden get these balance changes pls?

Nerfs
Displacer
- remove armor from ex teleport, less advantage from the strings that can be canceling into ex teleport - let's be serious here, Raiden needs good neutral tools in general, he needs fast adv. mid, fast long range poke and couple small improvements, thunder god and mos are still not good enough, he needs these buffs and if he gets these buffs, his ex teleport needs to be nerfed.

Buffs
General
- make f2 10-11 fr.startup -3 on block(down from 15 fr +2 on block) - Can Raiden have a effective neutral tools pls?
- make d4 11 fr. startup +11 on hit(down from 13 fr +19 on hit) - f2 is not true mid, and faster d4 would cover f2, it's would be a good mind game in de neutral
- make df2 electrocute -5 on block(down from -7) - small buff, it's just helps him a lit bit. This move being safe are not unbalanced let's be serious here, -5 it's fair and not Raiden's turn.
- make ex db2 Vicinity Burst 9-10 fr startup knock down mid and -6 on block (now it's 22 fr startup not knock downd high 0 on block ) - i think he needs a good deffensive option for all variations, his deffense are still not that good, let's be serious here and if ex tele would be nerfed it's would be worst, so it's makes sense to give him a fast armor move dat not launches but knocks down for improving his deffense.
Thunder God
- remove gap before df2, after 2 lightning strings, when lightning strings in the Thunder God var. are cancelling into df2, there is gap, but remove gap only in strings that starts from high normal attacks, for example gap is in f12b2 hold 2 *gap* df2 and 112 hold 2 *gap* df2 - his lightnings are not safe and there is a gap when you cancell lightnings into df2, at least remove gap after 2 lightning strings starting high.
- Make second hit of F2 2+4 string(2+4 part) 15 frame (down from 22 frame) - a little buff

 

[xSamuel]

Can we suggest some universal changes that will help all 3 Raiden variations become viable in the current meta?
I'll start:

F2 is now 9 frames (down from 16)
F244 is now special cancelable
df2 shocker can now be meter burned on hit to launch

This would be broke.
F2,2+4 tp is +2 meaning there is a small gap for 6/7 frame pokes. You wouldn't be able to backdash either because of the strings range. It would be a guess between frame trap B1 or continuation of pressure.
F244 tp would probably be plus on block because it has a lot of block stun. Being a safe meaty string is good enough for me.
The shocker is only -7 and then could be meter burned for a ~ 30% punish for what? Trying to counterpoke. Nah, if you want to make the read then you have to take the risk of punishment for it.

 

[Darth-Nero]

This would be broke.
F2,2+4 tp is +2 meaning there is a small gap for 6/7 frame pokes. You wouldn't be able to backdash either because of the strings range. It would be a guess between frame trap B1 or continuation of pressure.
F244 tp would probably be plus on block because it has a lot of block stun. Being a safe meaty string is good enough for me.
The shocker is only -7 and then could be meter burned for a ~ 30% punish for what? Trying to counterpoke. Nah, if you want to make the read then you have to take the risk of punishment for it.

He wont be getting anything so there is no point to keep arguing this but, yes 9f will probably be too much for his other 2 variations. I was thinking about thundergod when i suggested that, make it 10-11f would be just right.

and it's either give him meter burn on df2 or faster pokes. Hell, I would even settle for removing gaps from lightning strings to at least give thunder god some guaranteed pressure after the stamina nerf.

 

[xSamuel]

He wont be getting anything so there is no point to keep arguing this but, yes 9f will probably be too much for his other 2 variations. I was thinking about thundergod when i suggested that, make it 10-11f would be just right.

and it's either give him meter burn on df2 or faster pokes. Hell, I would even settle for removing gaps from lightning strings to at least give thunder god some guaranteed pressure after the stamina nerf.

I don't mean to argue or come off rude, Raiden brother. I was just pointing out the consequences that would have. Displacer is already slept on, I don't want to give anybody reasons to come looking for nerfs. My suggestions for changes to him were making his D4 11 frames and his F2 13 or 14 frames. 15 is such a slow mid and would make his neutral well rounded. If not that then the D4 buff would be all he needs to contest neutral outside of B1 range.

 

[TheRealOnlyGoonie]

WHY AM I SEEING THUNDER GOD TALK IN THIS THREAD?? PLZ STOP THAT VARIATION SO PURE DOGS HIT. AND IF UR STILL PLAYING IT WTF IS WRONG WITH U ???

 

[Darth-Nero]

I don't mean to argue or come off rude, Raiden brother. I was just pointing out the consequences that would have. Displacer is already slept on, I don't want to give anybody reasons to come looking for nerfs. My suggestions for changes to him were making his D4 11 frames and his F2 13 or 14 frames. 15 is such a slow mid and would make his neutral well rounded. If not that then the D4 buff would be all he needs to contest neutral outside of B1 range.

No worries bro. Displacer is not slept on tho, he is currently the most popular variation post patch and some go as far as argue that he is potential top 5 (which i don't agree with). Reason being that teleport covers up Raiden's weakness pretty well, his lack of fast advancing mid is compensated by special mobility where Raiden gets right in your face where he needs to be.

I still think F2 should be faster than 13-14, but honestly am desperate and i will take anything at this point.

WHY AM I SEEING THUNDER GOD TALK IN THIS THREAD?? PLZ STOP THAT VARIATION SO PURE DOGS HIT. AND IF UR STILL PLAYING IT WTF IS WRONG WITH U ???

Goonie stop trashing Thunder God plz and post some nice Displacer techs when you've found an answer to Kitana and Tremor Ninjutsu scorpion

 

[xSamuel]

WHY AM I SEEING THUNDER GOD TALK IN THIS THREAD?? PLZ STOP THAT VARIATION SO PURE DOGS HIT. AND IF UR STILL PLAYING IT WTF IS WRONG WITH U ???

You really need to talk to Samsung about your caps lock

 

[xSamuel]

No worries bro. Displacer is not slept on tho, he is currently the most popular variation post patch and some go as far as argue that he is potential top 5 (which i don't agree with). Reason being that teleport covers up Raiden's weakness pretty well, his lack of fast advancing mid is compensated by special mobility where Raiden gets right in your face where he needs to be.

I still think F2 should be faster than 13-14, but honestly am desperate and i will take anything at this point.

With a faster F2 you would get easier jails meaning NRS would, more than likely, adjust his recovery frames off EX Teleport. I would rather not have that happen

 

[Darth-Nero]

With a faster F2 you would get easier jails meaning NRS would, more than likely, adjust his recovery frames off EX Teleport. I would rather not have that happen

F22+4 still jails easy enough and nothing's wrong with that. I don't see how making F2 a few frames faster would matter unless it guarantees an infinite.

 

[xSamuel]

F22+4 still jails easy enough and nothing's wrong with that. I don't see how making F2 a few frames faster would matter unless it guarantees an infinite.

It's not that it guarantees an infinite but it seems like NRS changed a lot of jailing properties for run cancel characters to be next to frame perfect. If you were to give Raiden a faster F2 you would get long frame traps like:
F22+4 x tp, B11 x ExTp, F22+4 x tp, etc.
With little risk besides armor or bdashing the B1, which is also hard to do on reaction to what side he teleports to

If NRS were to do this they would see this easy-to-execute pressure that, at anytime, could turn into a safe 50/50. They would adjust Ex Teleport's recovery frames and that would be a huge nerf to his counter zoning threat.

 

[Darth-Nero]

It's not that it guarantees an infinite but it seems like NRS changed a lot of jailing properties for run cancel characters to be next to frame perfect. If you were to give Raiden a faster F2 you would get long frame traps like:
F22+4 x tp, B11 x ExTp, F22+4 x tp, etc.
With little risk besides armor or bdashing the B1, which is also hard to do on reaction to what side he teleports to

If NRS were to do this they would see this easy-to-execute pressure that, at anytime, could turn into a safe 50/50. They would adjust Ex Teleport's recovery frames and that would be a huge nerf to his counter zoning threat.

Kitana already does just that in the current meta and she gets 40% guaranteed chip damage off of it in the corner and no one bats an eye. I don't see why Raiden shouldn't get a fast reaching mid when he is actually a hype pick and he does indeed needs it. Am pretty much going to be ranting at this point but you get where am going..

It's just makes me mad af that characters like Kitana gets buckets of buffs while my character still trying to play the fucking game without a decent friggin' mid like "oh watch your buffs now, Raiden is one touch away from being the next alien" maaaan fuck this gay earth.

 

[WATCHD0G]

This is my opinion about TG and if anyone wants to play him GOOD LUCK

I'm dying of laughter right now....RIP TG

 

[xSamuel]

Kitana already does just that in the current meta and she gets 40% guaranteed chip damage off of it in the corner and no one bats an eye. I don't see why Raiden shouldn't get a fast reaching mid when he is actually a hype pick and he does indeed needs it. Am pretty much going to be ranting at this point but you get where am going..

It's just makes me mad af that characters like Kitana gets buckets of buffs while my character still trying to play the fucking game without a decent friggin' mid like "oh watch your buffs now, Raiden is one touch away from being the next alien" maaaan fuck this gay earth.

It's not guaranteed. Raiden also has safe 50 50s that can lead to 33% or more for a bar and corner carry. Not just a fuzzyable 50 50 but a true 100% guess.

 

[ganondeurf]

You complain about "slow" mid that is positive on block, which can't be backdashed if you go 50/50 after it hits (on hit) and which can lead to 2 strings which are block string and safe (and weird block stun so it doesn't feel like negative). This thing isn't slow when you have to use it. You don't use it to whiff punish or to steal turn, you use it when you are at frame advantages (and not +2 plz...).
About something slow, why no one is talking about Raiden's lightning ball ? It's now worse than Goro's, even Jason's is better