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Thoughts on Ivy 3.0 (COMPLETELY REVAMPED)

Lokheit

Noob
Bark skin slow af and still good af tho.
No, bark skin is only slightly useful in a couple of match ups and even then it's slow. Its only use is to have something to do after a HKD when trait isn't ready.

Thorns are even slower than that and the damage could be zero and you wouldn't notice the difference. Even if some utility is added, the speed would need to be halved (compare it with similar moves, all of them have around half the startup and deal more damage and even add utility while hitting airborne opponents too).
 

AkioOf100

I play Raph
I think poison ivy has gr8 neutral tbh. That saves her when she’s grounded and actually gives her some meta. It’s better than other characters even. She just lacks an reactionary anti-air. You have to air-to-air for the most part. Which isn’t bad she has a great j2 for that.

Bark skin removes chip. It’s good af. Make it faster maybe but if it’s too fast it’ll be broke. Maybe take it from 50 to 37. It’ll be okay then.
 

myri

Time Warrior
So I started playing Ivy again for the first time since release because well, she is one of the most underplayed characters in this game at pretty much every level and that's something I like in a character. Anyway point is I thought before picking her back up that she was one of the most trash characters in the current patch. I've been playing her again now for a few days and I think I was wrong, there does seem to be quite a huge potential for her mixup and pressure game off the datura stance cancels (a bit gimmicky I know but it's a mind game of sorts).

So basically what I'm getting at is that I feel like I've come to a conclusion on why this character is so underplayed and considered by many to not be worth playing. One is the obvious execution barrier, but I think the more important issue is a lack of synergy to Ivy's toolset. Generally speaking most of her tools are slow to startup and/or slow to recover (trait, bark skin, thorns, even drills are pretty slow) and it ends up making it almost impossible for Ivy to set the pace of the match against any character at any point until she can achieve a knockdown.

So you work your way in, unable to counter zone because of the slowness on trait and drills, and get a touch and knockdown your opponent, which guarantees a trait or bark skin. Okay, now you have to be very careful to not get hit and lose most of the full screen presence you just earned, either because your opponent has a super fast projectile that they can sneak out through your zoning pattern or they have the mobility to get out (airdash as an example). Then once your trait is gone, you lose most of your fullscreen presence again and have to start the process over.

So your other option is to not use the trait to setup your zoning game and just go in, which feels like a waste, or drop the trait and go in anyway which means you run the risk of your trait getting stuffed by a poke anyway. Thorns is trash and we all know it, drills are slow to start up and don't track nearly as well as they could. This sounds like a lot of complaining but I just want to explain my rational behind my feelings of where Ivy sits at the moment. Don't get me wrong, she's hella fun, I just feel like her design is a bit off the mark right now.

So how would I fix this? Simple. Speed her up a bit. Make thorns recover significantly faster, maybe even fast enough to lay down after a mb kiss and still combo with normals (not a b3/f3), damage can remain as is if that is the case. Reduce the startup on drills from 24 frames to about 19 frames or something. But the biggest thing that I feel should be changed is her trait. Now there are a number of ways it could change but I think there are two things that need to be taken into consideration, one is that the trait goes away on hit and two is that it fires automatically without any input from the player. Honestly her trait is pretty boring to use, there isn't really much to it and that's disappointing. So my hope for that is that her trait gets a bit of love to be more similar in style to Dex-Starr, allowing her to choose when it shoots and staying on hit (of course being in active while Ivy is in hit stun/juggle state).

Honestly the biggest thing right now is her trait. It isn't fun to use, it's practically useless in a large portion of her matchups due to fast counter zoning and movement options and is pretty none threatening since it goes away on hit.

TL;DR

- Make thorns do SOMETHING
- Rework her trait please
- Maybe speed up her other specials

Again this is all just my feelings and I wanted to add to this discussion so what do you guys think about what I've said here. Regardless I'm happy to be playing this character again and it'll be fun to see what she can do once I get the execution down again.
 
So I started playing Ivy again for the first time since release because well, she is one of the most underplayed characters in this game at pretty much every level and that's something I like in a character. Anyway point is I thought before picking her back up that she was one of the most trash characters in the current patch. I've been playing her again now for a few days and I think I was wrong, there does seem to be quite a huge potential for her mixup and pressure game off the datura stance cancels (a bit gimmicky I know but it's a mind game of sorts).

So basically what I'm getting at is that I feel like I've come to a conclusion on why this character is so underplayed and considered by many to not be worth playing. One is the obvious execution barrier, but I think the more important issue is a lack of synergy to Ivy's toolset. Generally speaking most of her tools are slow to startup and/or slow to recover (trait, bark skin, thorns, even drills are pretty slow) and it ends up making it almost impossible for Ivy to set the pace of the match against any character at any point until she can achieve a knockdown.

So you work your way in, unable to counter zone because of the slowness on trait and drills, and get a touch and knockdown your opponent, which guarantees a trait or bark skin. Okay, now you have to be very careful to not get hit and lose most of the full screen presence you just earned, either because your opponent has a super fast projectile that they can sneak out through your zoning pattern or they have the mobility to get out (airdash as an example). Then once your trait is gone, you lose most of your fullscreen presence again and have to start the process over.

So your other option is to not use the trait to setup your zoning game and just go in, which feels like a waste, or drop the trait and go in anyway which means you run the risk of your trait getting stuffed by a poke anyway. Thorns is trash and we all know it, drills are slow to start up and don't track nearly as well as they could. This sounds like a lot of complaining but I just want to explain my rational behind my feelings of where Ivy sits at the moment. Don't get me wrong, she's hella fun, I just feel like her design is a bit off the mark right now.

So how would I fix this? Simple. Speed her up a bit. Make thorns recover significantly faster, maybe even fast enough to lay down after a mb kiss and still combo with normals (not a b3/f3), damage can remain as is if that is the case. Reduce the startup on drills from 24 frames to about 19 frames or something. But the biggest thing that I feel should be changed is her trait. Now there are a number of ways it could change but I think there are two things that need to be taken into consideration, one is that the trait goes away on hit and two is that it fires automatically without any input from the player. Honestly her trait is pretty boring to use, there isn't really much to it and that's disappointing. So my hope for that is that her trait gets a bit of love to be more similar in style to Dex-Starr, allowing her to choose when it shoots and staying on hit (of course being in active while Ivy is in hit stun/juggle state).

Honestly the biggest thing right now is her trait. It isn't fun to use, it's practically useless in a large portion of her matchups due to fast counter zoning and movement options and is pretty none threatening since it goes away on hit.

TL;DR

- Make thorns do SOMETHING
- Rework her trait please
- Maybe speed up her other specials

Again this is all just my feelings and I wanted to add to this discussion so what do you guys think about what I've said here. Regardless I'm happy to be playing this character again and it'll be fun to see what she can do once I get the execution down again.
I used to think her trait should be controllable but I actually have her legendary gear piece... so yeah it’s a no for me. If you think execution is a problem for her now try controlling nightshade and doing things with ivy at the same time it’s way harder that’s it is to do with atrocitus especially datura canceling with nightshade is ugh and then you think nightshade doesn’t move like dextar and even with the legendary nightshade moves too slow to calculate the distance, travel time, timing, etc. all at once. And it would limit her combo potential. And I think poison Ivy’s trait is unique. You actually have to think about what you’re doing.... and especially when you get that feeling when you convert with trait and you have that “I’m the best ivy” moment yeah that’s amazing or when you land that setup that lands with the perfect timing and you hit 650 in the corner for one bar with nightshade (technically 2 bars because of meterburn kiss)
 
I used to think her trait should be controllable but I actually have her legendary gear piece... so yeah it’s a no for me. If you think execution is a problem for her now try controlling nightshade and doing things with ivy at the same time it’s way harder that’s it is to do with atrocitus especially datura canceling with nightshade is ugh and then you think nightshade doesn’t move like dextar and even with the legendary nightshade moves too slow to calculate the distance, travel time, timing, etc. all at once. And it would limit her combo potential. And I think poison Ivy’s trait is unique. You actually have to think about what you’re doing.... and especially when you get that feeling when you convert with trait and you have that “I’m the best ivy” moment yeah that’s amazing or when you land that setup that lands with the perfect timing and you hit 650 in the corner for one bar with nightshade (technically 2 bars because of meterburn kiss)
But I totally agree with your statements about why she isn’t played much in the competitive scene or really online either
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
TBH all I want is an AA and for Thorns to actually have a purpose. Anything else is icing on the cake
 

GJX7

Your Mediocrity Is Killing Me
All this and she's also one of the higher execution characters on the game, I want to play her for fun but combos are practically impossible against the ranked wifi warriors.

My suggestions to fix her bed of thorns are either to just make it do more damage and it should start up in like half the time, also I really like her gear ability which makes her gain health while standing in it
 

Jinxx

9 Lives
Ivy needs these and thats it
2 fixes
-Bed of thorns needs to do much more dmg and needs to stop jumping on non-meterburn and on meterburn needs to stop dashing and jumping. ( what im saying is it basically needs to be useful).
-mb datura hammer on block needs to have no gap, so that you cant backdash and punish it, its so stupid, you shouldnt be able to punish something that supposed to be safe and your wasting bar.
1 out of these 2 buffs
-d2 needs to be 11 frames
or
-barkskin needs to recover faster(30 frames)

All she needs.
 

Lokheit

Noob
Ivy needs these and thats it
2 fixes
-Bed of thorns needs to do much more dmg and needs to stop jumping on non-meterburn and on meterburn needs to stop dashing and jumping. ( what im saying is it basically needs to be useful).
-mb datura hammer on block needs to have no gap, so that you cant backdash and punish it, its so stupid, you shouldnt be able to punish something that supposed to be safe and your wasting bar.
1 out of these 2 buffs
-d2 needs to be 11 frames
or
-barkskin needs to recover faster(30 frames)

All she needs.
I would add to this making the trait not interrupt combos and grabs and having better block stun (or at least keep the block stun of previous hit if it was higher). It's stupid how much her trait works against her.
 

Jinxx

9 Lives
I would add to this making the trait not interrupt combos and grabs and having better block stun (or at least keep the block stun of previous hit if it was higher). It's stupid how much her trait works against her.
Yeah, i agree that is another good change to her.