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Thoughts on Ivy 3.0 (COMPLETELY REVAMPED)

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
My true thoughts about her. I don’t want this post to come off as if I’m salty or anything like that. It’s just the honest to god truth.

It’s been 6 months into the games life. Ivy was a very popular player in the beginning but her popularity decreased significantly towards the games life. One of the main reasons why this happened is due to her not having a reliable AA. In the beginning of the game, her d2 was 20f, which was totally unviable. In the first patch, it was shaved a bit to 16f, making it a bit useful, but still not a reliable AA.

Since the BEGINNING of the game, Ivy players have been asking for some help, mainly an AA. In a recent patch, a lot of characters who asked for help got what they wanted. Here’s some examples:

  • Blue Beetle - Adjusted hit regions on several normal attacks
  • Blue Beetle - Slightly reduced combo damage scaling on Seeking Reach (Towards + Medium, Hard) & Flying Scarab
  • Blue Beetle - Reduced combo damage scaling on Blade Stab Meter Burn & Blade Barrage Meter Burn
  • Blue Beetle - Shield Slam has 17 less recovery frames on miss & Mandible Strike has 6 less recovery frames on miss
  • Blue Beetle - Blue Beetle's wings no longer sometimes appear during moves while the Alien Cloak Gear Ability is active
  • Blue Beetle - Fixed view being obstructed when performing Mandible Strike Meter Burn in the left corner of Arkham Asylum Cell Blocks
  • Blue Beetle - Fixed a bug causing Legendary Character Power meter to sometimes stop recharging after an Arena Transition occurs
  • Cyborg - Added new Cybernetic Sweep special move (Down, Away + Hard Attack)
  • Cyborg - Cyber Attack (Medium, Hard) now attacks with the weaponized big arm, has its hit region adjusted, has 2 more active frames, 1 less recovery frame on miss, and 1 more recovery frame on hit / block
  • Cyborg - Power Fist has 10 more block stun frames, 10 more block recovery frames, and can now be Meter Burned on block / miss
  • Cyborg - Power Fist Meter Burn now has increased pushback on block, 15 more block stun frames, 15 more block recovery frames, and recovers 5 frames faster on miss
  • Cyborg - Increased base damage of Techno Tackle and Techno Tackle Meter Burn by 2


  • Firestorm - Added new Heat Flux special move (Down, Away, Medium) which will gain Character Power meter while being charged
  • Firestorm - Atom Bomb gear ability input is now Down, Back, Hard and It now replaces Atomic Burst
  • Firestorm - Reduced the hit advantage of Molten Trap Meter Burn by 24 frames
  • Firestorm - Character Power fully charged time is now 12 secs (down from 12.5)
  • Firestorm - Eternal Flame now has 37 recovery frames (down from 58)
  • Firestorm - Heat Wave (Away + Hard) has 5 less hit recovery and can now be directed forward for increased range while adding 5 more recovery frames on block / miss
  • Firestorm - Vapor Jab (Jump + Light) now has 5 startup frames (down from 9)
  • Firestorm - Double Burst (Jump +Medium) had its hit region adjusted
  • Joker - Added new Death Spin special move (Down, Back + Hard)
  • Joker - Added new Stab-Aroo normal attack (Away + Medium)
  • Joker - The input for Chattering Teeth and Surprise Box Gear Ability is now Down, Down + Hard
  • Joker - Adjusted hit regions on several normal attacks
  • Joker - Crowbar Slam (Away + Hard) now recovers 5 frames faster on hit
  • Joker - BANG! has increased pushback on hit with +5 hit advantage (up from 0)
  • Joker - Side Order of Pie Gear Ability now has 20 frames of recovery onmiss after the armor wears off andrecovers 40 frames faster on block
  • Scarecrow - Character power base damage is increased to 1.5 (up from 1 per hit, with damage ticking every 90 frames (up from 60)
  • Scarecrow - Character power does reduced damage (2/3) while scarecrow is in hit stun
  • Scarecrow - Panic-Port startup is now 14 frames (down from 21), has 27 recovery frames (down from 29) and becomes projectile invulnerable after 6 frames
  • Scarecrow - Fixed Panic-Port smoke visual effects sometimes being misaligned if performed immediately following a jump
  • Scarecrow - Panic-Port can now be special canceled into Death Bed(Super move) after he teleports
  • Scarecrow - Ground Shaker (Hard) now has 15 startup frames (downfrom 17) and 1 less active frame
  • Scarecrow - Fixed issue with the view becoming obstructed during a forward throw in the corner of some Arenas
  • Scarecrow - Legendary Traumatize Meter Burn attack is now unblockable
  • Scarecrow - Fully holding Toxin Breath while Black Adam hits Scarecrow with his Character Power no longersometimes causes Scarecrow tobecome unresponsive in someinstances

  • Swamp Thing - Refoliation & Trunk Punch (Hard) now have armor when executed while Swamp Thing is standing in Abigail's Garden Character Power
  • Swamp Thing - Refoliation startup is now 16 frames (down from 17), active frames increased to 8 frames (up from 4), 7 less miss recovery frames, 3 less hit / block recovery frames
  • Swamp Thing - Refoliation Meter Burn startup is now 5 frames (down from 12) and has 1 more hit recovery frame
  • Swamp Thing - Log Kick startup is now 20 frames (down from 22) and has 10 less miss / block recovery frames
  • Swamp Thing - Bayou Bash can now be held to increased its range, when then results in longer recovery on block /miss depending on held time up to an additional 7 frames
Congratulations to those characters who got what they wanted and then some. They got they help they deserved. Ivy on the other hand...the main thing we asked for was an AA. What did we get?


  • Poison Ivy - Added New Chompy and Bitey Bash special move (Down, Towards + Medium)


...

Now don’t get me wrong. We did complain about Ivy’s wakeup in the beginning, but we got used it to. I mean, it’s not the greatest but it’s an invincible grab that starts a combo. Better than nothing. Cool. Ever since then, we were begging for an AA. Why is it that the characters above got what they asked for and we didn’t? Hell, even firestorm players asked for an AA and they got it along with other buffs. We got a wakeup that doesn’t even lead to anything on hit and is unsafe on block.

The thing is. Ivy players aren’t the only people saying she needs an AA. People who have dropped Ivy said it was because she doesn’t have an AA. People who want to pick up Ivy won’t because they said she doesn’t have an AA. LITERALLY 90% OF THE COMMUNITY AGREES WITH THIS.

It’s not like we’re asking for the best AA in the game or something. Just something we can have to contest against airborne players. It’s such drag dealing with people who avoid her zoning AND take advantage of her lack of AA.


THIS IS MAIN THING WE’VE BEEN ASKING FOR.

Also, some other help:



1) Bed of Thorns: ITS BEEN 6 MONTHS AND NOTHING HAS CHANGED. As of right now, there is little to no reason to use this move at all. It's so bad to the point people forgot she even had it or don't even know what it does. The recovery is too slow, doesn't last for a long time and the damage is non existent. I feel like they need to make the recovery shorter and make the active frames longer. If not make the active frames longer, then make it do the same damage that the MB version does.

2) D1. I would like for it to become 6f. If that would happen, it would help her upclose game IMMENSELY. She would be able to take advantage of the plus frames off of 1212, 2, 3, etc, thus helping her rushdown game (think of the 21 into d3 trap Kitana has in MKX). On top of that, a 6f poke would help her defense better since she’ll be able to poke/interrupt things easier. It wouldn’t make her a monster or anything but it would definitely help her out a lot.

This is my final plea. I really like this character but she seriously needs help.


@tylerlansdown

Discuss.
 
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myri

Time Warrior
Since it's been a month into the game's life, I wanted to give my thoughts on her, as well as let you guys express your feelings as well.

I pretty much had a general consensus of her week 1, but I felt like it was too early and wanted to wait at least a month before I share my thoughts, just in case if my mind is swayed. Hasn't really swayed tho lol so my thoughts are still the same for the most part

I feel as if Ivy is a "Hybrid" character. For those who don't know what hybrid is, it is a character who can do both zoning and rushdown and are good in both aspects. Think of Kitana in both MK9 and MKX and MMH from IGAU. Anyways, she's a hybrid but she's more on the defensive side rather than offense. She doesn't really excel at anything but she pretty much does everything. Zoning, rushdown, air to airs, AAs, she has them and even though they aren't too strong, it's enough to make her a competitor.

Her toolset is very nice. Drills are a powerful zoning tool that's effective against nearly the entire cast, and can be used offensively and defensively, while barkskin can make MUs hell for the opponent due to less damage taken and no chip. Yoshi is one of the better traits in the game further improving her lockdown game, whether it's rushing or zoning (tho it should be used for zoning or setting up the HTB). Multiple HKDs that leads to setups, good damage, decent mixups, etc. I feel like she was designed very well.

I don't wanna dive too deep into MUs yet but some MUs I feel like she wins are Aquaman, Black Canary and Wonder Woman while some matches I feel like she loses are Deadshot and Superman. Her MUs are...weird. If she can zone, and do it effectively, most like she'll win, hence why she beats Aquaman. However, if she can't zone, it's almost as if she's looking confused in the match because she gets zoned out pretty hard and her upclose game isn't super good, hence why she loses to Deadshot. Characters with good air mobility can be trouble too.




Although she is a good character, I do feel like she needs some buffs. Now don't get crazy. I'm not one of those people who ask for unreasonable fixes. I feel like the changes I'm about to share are very reasonable and won't change her overall gameplay at all.


1) Bed of Thorns: As of right now, there is little to no reason to use this move at all. It's so bad to the point people forgot she even had it or don't even know what it does. The recovery is too slow, doesn't last for a long time and the damage is non existent. I feel like they need to make the recovery shorter and make the active frames longer. If not make the active frames longer, then make it do the same damage that the MB version does.

2) D2: it's 20f and -10 on block. That's a HORRIBLE mix and there's no use for it. Yea it ticks into kiss but it's so slow to even set it up. The startup should be reduced to reasonable frames, making it viable. It should be fast enough to at least attempt to AA with it, giving her a good AA

3) D1: as of right now, her d1 is the only d1 in the game that doesn't combo METERLESSLY into a special (correct me if I'm wrong). With d1 punishes being so important in the game, Ivy not being able to do it unless she has meter doesn't make her a key contender for d1 punishes. Her only punish she can get is d1 MB Datura and although it launches, the damage is abysmal for a bar since MB Datura only does ~80HP and then scales the combo heavily afterwards. A fix to this would let the cancel advantage be enough for her to link a drill. That way, she gets a simple punish for no meter and still has to spend meter to launch/combo.

That's pretty much what I think of Ivy. A good hybrid who can seriously fuck you up but also get fucked up and needs small changes.


Discuss.
I could've written this myself, it's pretty much exactly what I would've said about Ivy. There are other changes that I could get behind but I'm aware that it's probably pushing into the realms of being too much. The three changes you mentioned are the absolute most dire changes she needs right now, ESPECIALLY her down 2. There are characters in this game with just as good / better hitboxes on their down 2 and they aren't slumming it with 20 frame startup. I mean come on, Scarecrow has an INSANE down 2 and it's 11 frames, NRS please.

Also yes make thorns actually do something. I legit threw it out in match yesterday by accident (thanks inputs!) and I was legitimately surprised because I forgot she even had that move.
 

ImperatrixSindel

Too bad YOU... will DIE!
Premium Supporter
In the mobile game, which just added Ivy, the Bed of Thorns makes it impossible to jump (like Abigail's Garden). This would be a huge, huge fix in terms of making it worth a damn.

I still don't really get where the datura hammer is supposed to fit into her gameplan either. I feel like she should have the gear projectile as a base move.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Here is the thing about Ivy. Even though she can both Zone and Rush, I feel like she tends to lean more to the Rushdown category. As I've said in another thread, the only way she can really Zone is by a combination Vine Drill and Night Shade trait, while most of her moves are for an offensive playstyle, as she has the Kiss of Death command grab as well as the Datura Hammer stance that gives her some very good pressure up close. Not to mention that her trait can't be used all the time, and it can be used for Pressure too.

I'm not saying she's a bad character, because she is really good, but I think this is the proper way to describe her: Jill of all trades, master of none character that has more of offense from up close, but can do just a tiny bit of everything else as well, from Zoning and Keep away, mid range attacks and defensive tactics.
 
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tafka Djinn

One for three off the roof
This is pretty much what has been rattling around inside my head this month while playing her, but worded well, and from somebody smart.
It's been brought up above, but I will add again to the discussion that outside of d1 MB Datura I feel the move feels entirely out of place in her kit.

I'm currently taking a week or so break from using Ivy, to explore other characters because I am a slut, and because I struggle AAing consistently with her. It's not even just Ji2man either, it's just that right now this weakness is dreadfully pronounced, and it's kind of mission critical.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
In the mobile game, which just added Ivy, the Bed of Thorns makes it impossible to jump (like Abigail's Garden). This would be a huge, huge fix in terms of making it worth a damn.

I still don't really get where the datura hammer is supposed to fit into her gameplan either. I feel like she should have the gear projectile as a base move.
I don't think giving it the ability to stop jumps is a good idea lol. It wouldn't be fair that swamp thing has that as a trait yet she has it as a base move
 

Lokheit

Noob
Well said. I think most people thoughts go in the same lines. Personal opinion about some of her moves:



- Bed of Thorns:

Probably the worst move in the game. Too slow to realistically use it in any situation, the damage is basically non existent as you said (half the damage of a single drill if they stay there for the full duration and even then the damage scales during combos like all dots and it only ticks if opponents stay on the ground unlike other dots like Fate's and Cold's). Also the "close, medium, far" distances are all close lol, the should cover more distances.

I think this move should be faster (fast enough to use after a kiss and connect a combo with easy) AND add some utility. Being faster by itself won't solve anything as the damage is crap so it won't add to anything (after a kiss it would still result in more damage to do a J1 before 121213 than thorns and then 121213).

The funny part is that the best way to make them useful would be to replicate Swamp Thing's trait, but I guess then Swamp Thing would feel obsolete and he's already too bad.

An alternative to get a use of the move would be to swap it with petals of life (but also speed up petals to make it possible to use them after Kiss MB and combo because that move is even slower) so after a kiss you get some health back. The health amount is crap too but it could potentially help you from chip situations.

A third option would be to make them a ground trap instead of DoT for example. There are many more options in fact but they need to add utility rather than damage and in any case, the start up should be much faster. Currently is a wasted special move slot and a joke.



- Uppercut:

Probably the worst uppercut in the game. 20 frames by itself makes it unusable (IMO no uppercut should be slower than 11 frames, I suffered MKX Cryomancer having a 14 frames uppercut with better reach than Ivy's and it was crap too) but the move also has almost zero horizontal reach:

You can stay at a distance were your s1 will connect and D2 won't connect, it has basically the same reach than B1 which is a joke for a D2. The vertical reach is unnecesarily high (it reaches to points where opponents won't even be) and the horizontal reach is a joke. There are moves that cover amazing vertical AND horizontal distances that are like 7 frames.

With such a laughable horizontal reach it should be 8-9 frames and I'm 100% serious about it. More than half of the cast would still have better uppercuts even after that change and airborne characters screw her badly with J2 being your only real option.



- Trait:

The trait is good but there are a couple of things that should change IMO:

- It shouldn't go away on pushblock because it basically nullifies every single setup that you could think with it and forces you to use it for zoning exclusively when there is so much creativity involved on those setups.

- It could work a bit more with your moves. I think during throw animations (Throw, Kiss, and B2D2Throw) it shouldn't knock both opponents down as it works againt you and it's supposed to be a good thing. This is another component of the trait that forces you to use it at range as it can screw your combos and the combos that use it in positive ways need very specific timing as you don't control the shots like Atrocitus for example.



- Drill:

It's a very good tool but opponents that can stay in the air for a time completely nullify it and it's Ivy's only zoning option.

Characters with similar moves like Aquaman (his version is faster but unsafer) has other tools like a 17 frames projectile or an amazing 7 frames uppercut with better horizontal reach and the same vertical reach.

It really feels like Ivy needs something to complement the Drill against airborne opponents or an option to make it better against them (maybe MB without needing to hit?).

The other point about this move is how tight the F3 conversion after MB is as most players have a hard time with it and even the pros miss that conversion a lot of times during competitive games so if the MB would launch just a bit higher (like 4-5 more frames of opportunity to connect) it would be awesome but that's more about a quality of life change (it wouldn't mean anything balance-wise, just make the character more consistent at what she does). With Datura2 leading to more damage for a bar it's not worth risking a drop of DrillMB right now.



- B2D2 hitbox needs a fix:

B2D2 is an amazing neutral move, but the hitbox needs a fix ASAP. When you do B2D2 Datura Launcher from long distance and throw a new B2D2 for the combo continuation, depending on your opponent's mode, the last hit won't connect 99% of the time even if clearly the arm and the carnivorous plant are well inside your opponent.

I think this could be caused by the legs of the opponent spreading during the falling animation and the D2 hitting in between because it aims at the middle but I could be wrong. Right now it makes her neutral game worse than it should be as you can't connect your main combo after B2D2 when playing footsies and a simple hitbox fix would solve it.



- Datura overal design feels clunky:

I don't think Datura is bad perse, only that the way it's designed could be improved (to basically do the same things but making more sense).

The first thing is the input which doesn't come natural with your main footsie string (B2D2, DD1,2U), I guess it could stay the same but there are other stances in the game with DB inputs rather than DD and I think it would feel more natural from a design perspective.

But the main problem is how 2 of the strings that are designed to follow with regular strings (the launcher and the low knockdown) keep you in the stance. I think Datura2 and Datura3 should automatically finish the stance unless they're meterburned (I would even give up the MB component and make only Datura1 able to use it). I'm already used to hold up after Datura2, but is another part of Ivy's controls that feel clunky.

In fact IMO it would've been better if instead of a stance the move would've been like Tremor's punch in MKX that you could hold, press up and press down for different outcomes, so instead of DD1,2 for the launcher you would use DB1U for example.

In this case it's not about balance but about the move as a whole feeling really clunky and put together in a hurry from a design perspective (even the MB works against you as it puts opponents at distances where the other moves won't reach correctly and even sometimes part of the MB itself).
 
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Lokheit

Noob
Idk how i feel about trait staying on pushblock. We don't need another atrocitus lol
It's not really as the trait offers the tactical advantage the cat does. Atrocitus can time his cat abilities to make strings safe and extend combos. Puky shoots in a pattern and you need to adjut to his timing instead of adjusting him to your strategy. If not inmune to pushblock at least make it remove half a bar so you can use a setup at least.

For example there is a nice corner 50/50 setup using trait into 21 and then either 3 for launcher OH or Datura 3 for low timed with puky for a launcher that opponents can just pushblock during the 21 part and you no longer have trait. Right now you're forced to ONLY zone with it and it's a pity.
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
I don't play Ivy but the way I see it is that some characters don't care at all about it but others get straight up locked and have to take the chip, as a WW/Cheetah player I think that The option of pushblocking it away is the only option if you don't wanna get chipped out and even then most Ivy players I've faced used it more like a zoning tool which doesn't have to deal with pushblock.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
It's not really as the trait offers the tactical advantage the cat does. Atrocitus can time his cat abilities to make strings safe and extend combos. Puky shoots in a pattern and you need to adjut to his timing instead of adjusting him to your strategy. If not inmune to pushblock at least make it remove half a bar so you can use a setup at least.

For example there is a nice corner 50/50 setup using trait into 21 and then either 3 for launcher OH or Datura 3 for low timed with puky for a launcher that opponents can just pushblock during the 21 part and you no longer have trait. Right now you're forced to ONLY zone with it and it's a pity.

She was designed to be a zoner tho. I think Yoshi was designed to keep the zoning game even stronger than it already is. A lot of the cast is forced to take all that chip from the zoning while Yoshi is out, and it's A LOT of chip. One mistake and they eat a drill and depending where you are, you can go right into a combo or they have to start right back at square one.

I don't think it would be fair for her to have rushdown with it also since it already makes her zoning pretty much a lockdown, hence why if you try to rush when it's out and you get hit or they pushblock, it goes away. You can surely walk your way in while it's out but she doesn't need to have lockdown rushdown AND zoning.
 

Lokheit

Noob
She was designed to be a zoner tho. I think Yoshi was designed to keep the zoning game even stronger than it already is. A lot of the cast is forced to take all that chip from the zoning while Yoshi is out, and it's A LOT of chip. One mistake and they eat a drill and depending where you are, you can go right into a combo or they have to start right back at square one.

I don't think it would be fair for her to have rushdown with it also since it already makes her zoning pretty much a lockdown, hence why if you try to rush when it's out and you get hit or they pushblock, it goes away. You can surely walk your way in while it's out but she doesn't need to have lockdown rushdown AND zoning.
Fair point. My biggest issue with her zoning is that while a part of the cast have to take that chip (there are more characters with way around it than what it looks like though), there is another big chunk of the cast that can 100% ignore her ground based zoning and she needs help in those matchups.
 
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CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Moderator
Okay so my two cents about the character. I think her matchups currently are absurdly polarized. She is either completely demolishing the opponent or she's getting mopped. She has a strong ground game and some decent zoning but people who don't care about that just completely mop her ass. On top of that she just shrivels up and dies on knockdown. She's definitely strong but the issues the OP mentions are basically generally agreed upon from what i've heard.
 
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All of you who are saying she's a viable zoner must have found a way to AA with her surely, right?
I have to admit, I haven't put barely any time into this game - I was just looking for Cassie's b1 and found Ivy, who is Cassie but without AA and reversal. And with pretty dumb inputs, but I can live with those.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Moderator
All of you who are saying she's a viable zoner must have found a way to AA with her surely, right?
I have to admit, I haven't put barely any time into this game - I was just looking for Cassie's b1 and found Ivy, who is Cassie but without AA and reversal. And with pretty dumb inputs, but I can live with those.
She has really solid A2As which seem to be the "AAs" of choice for a lot of characters right now.
 

scootleberry

Gombaaay...
Since it's been a month into the game's life, I wanted to give my thoughts on her, as well as let you guys express your feelings as well.

I pretty much had a general consensus of her week 1, but I felt like it was too early and wanted to wait at least a month before I share my thoughts, just in case if my mind is swayed. Hasn't really swayed tho lol so my thoughts are still the same for the most part

I feel as if Ivy is a "Hybrid" character. For those who don't know what hybrid is, it is a character who can do both zoning and rushdown and are good in both aspects. Think of Kitana in both MK9 and MKX and MMH from IGAU. Anyways, she's a hybrid but she's more on the defensive side rather than offense. She doesn't really excel at anything but she pretty much does everything. Zoning, rushdown, air to airs, AAs, she has them and even though they aren't too strong, it's enough to make her a competitor.

Her toolset is very nice. Drills are a powerful zoning tool that's effective against nearly the entire cast, and can be used offensively and defensively, while barkskin can make MUs hell for the opponent due to less damage taken and no chip. Yoshi is one of the better traits in the game further improving her lockdown game, whether it's rushing or zoning (tho it should be used for zoning or setting up the HTB). Multiple HKDs that leads to setups, good damage, decent mixups, etc. I feel like she was designed very well.

I don't wanna dive too deep into MUs yet but some MUs I feel like she wins are Aquaman, Black Canary and Wonder Woman while some matches I feel like she loses are Deadshot and Superman. Her MUs are...weird. If she can zone, and do it effectively, most like she'll win, hence why she beats Aquaman. However, if she can't zone, it's almost as if she's looking confused in the match because she gets zoned out pretty hard and her upclose game isn't super good, hence why she loses to Deadshot. Characters with good air mobility can be trouble too.




Although she is a good character, I do feel like she needs some buffs. Now don't get crazy. I'm not one of those people who ask for unreasonable fixes. I feel like the changes I'm about to share are very reasonable and won't change her overall gameplay at all.


1) Bed of Thorns: As of right now, there is little to no reason to use this move at all. It's so bad to the point people forgot she even had it or don't even know what it does. The recovery is too slow, doesn't last for a long time and the damage is non existent. I feel like they need to make the recovery shorter and make the active frames longer. If not make the active frames longer, then make it do the same damage that the MB version does.

2) D2: it's 20f and -10 on block. That's a HORRIBLE mix and there's no use for it. Yea it ticks into kiss but it's so slow to even set it up. The startup should be reduced to reasonable frames, making it viable. It should be fast enough to at least attempt to AA with it, giving her a good AA

3) D1: as of right now, her d1 is the only d1 in the game that doesn't combo METERLESSLY into a special (correct me if I'm wrong). With d1 punishes being so important in the game, Ivy not being able to do it unless she has meter doesn't make her a key contender for d1 punishes. Her only punish she can get is d1 MB Datura and although it launches, the damage is abysmal for a bar since MB Datura only does ~80HP and then scales the combo heavily afterwards. A fix to this would let the cancel advantage be enough for her to link a drill. That way, she gets a simple punish for no meter and still has to spend meter to launch/combo.

That's pretty much what I think of Ivy. A good hybrid who can seriously fuck you up but also get fucked up and needs small changes.


Discuss.


Yes... my thoughts exactly, couldnt have said it better mate
 

Yoaks

A spaceman
Since it's been a month into the game's life, I wanted to give my thoughts on her, as well as let you guys express your feelings as well.

I pretty much had a general consensus of her week 1, but I felt like it was too early and wanted to wait at least a month before I share my thoughts, just in case if my mind is swayed. Hasn't really swayed tho lol so my thoughts are still the same for the most part

I feel as if Ivy is a "Hybrid" character. For those who don't know what hybrid is, it is a character who can do both zoning and rushdown and are good in both aspects. Think of Kitana in both MK9 and MKX and MMH from IGAU. Anyways, she's a hybrid but she's more on the defensive side rather than offense. She doesn't really excel at anything but she pretty much does everything. Zoning, rushdown, air to airs, AAs, she has them and even though they aren't too strong, it's enough to make her a competitor.

Her toolset is very nice. Drills are a powerful zoning tool that's effective against nearly the entire cast, and can be used offensively and defensively, while barkskin can make MUs hell for the opponent due to less damage taken and no chip. Yoshi is one of the better traits in the game further improving her lockdown game, whether it's rushing or zoning (tho it should be used for zoning or setting up the HTB). Multiple HKDs that leads to setups, good damage, decent mixups, etc. I feel like she was designed very well.

I don't wanna dive too deep into MUs yet but some MUs I feel like she wins are Aquaman, Black Canary and Wonder Woman while some matches I feel like she loses are Deadshot and Superman. Her MUs are...weird. If she can zone, and do it effectively, most like she'll win, hence why she beats Aquaman. However, if she can't zone, it's almost as if she's looking confused in the match because she gets zoned out pretty hard and her upclose game isn't super good, hence why she loses to Deadshot. Characters with good air mobility can be trouble too.




Although she is a good character, I do feel like she needs some buffs. Now don't get crazy. I'm not one of those people who ask for unreasonable fixes. I feel like the changes I'm about to share are very reasonable and won't change her overall gameplay at all.


1) Bed of Thorns: As of right now, there is little to no reason to use this move at all. It's so bad to the point people forgot she even had it or don't even know what it does. The recovery is too slow, doesn't last for a long time and the damage is non existent. I feel like they need to make the recovery shorter and make the active frames longer. If not make the active frames longer, then make it do the same damage that the MB version does.

2) D2: it's 20f and -10 on block. That's a HORRIBLE mix and there's no use for it. Yea it ticks into kiss but it's so slow to even set it up. The startup should be reduced to reasonable frames, making it viable. It should be fast enough to at least attempt to AA with it, giving her a good AA

3) D1: as of right now, her d1 is the only d1 in the game that doesn't combo METERLESSLY into a special (correct me if I'm wrong). With d1 punishes being so important in the game, Ivy not being able to do it unless she has meter doesn't make her a key contender for d1 punishes. Her only punish she can get is d1 MB Datura and although it launches, the damage is abysmal for a bar since MB Datura only does ~80HP and then scales the combo heavily afterwards. A fix to this would let the cancel advantage be enough for her to link a drill. That way, she gets a simple punish for no meter and still has to spend meter to launch/combo.

That's pretty much what I think of Ivy. A good hybrid who can seriously fuck you up but also get fucked up and needs small changes.


Discuss.
Can you give me your thoughts on the WW mu? I don't have a whole lot of mu experience like I do with some other characters but so far it feels even.

Ivy obviously wins full screen. Neutral feels slightly in Ivy's favor. Her f3 has great range but I can react to that pretty easily with d2 or parry it and punish it. WW's whiff punishing is pretty good with some normals like d12, d2 and b11. Along with specials like, Lasso, Bash and Shield Toss. Can Ivy punish Shield Toss?

I can pretty much jump around like a maniac once I'm within jump distance. J1 and j3 I can just abuse. And if I think your gonna jump to a2a me I can just j2 instead and beat you out. Or just bait the a2a and d2.

Once I get a kd or have you in a corner, it's just as oppressive as if you had me full screen with Yoshi out.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Can you give me your thoughts on the WW mu? I don't have a whole lot of mu experience like I do with some other characters but so far it feels even.

Ivy obviously wins full screen. Neutral feels slightly in Ivy's favor. Her f3 has great range but I can react to that pretty easily with d2 or parry it and punish it. WW's whiff punishing is pretty good with some normals like d12, d2 and b11. Along with specials like, Lasso, Bash and Shield Toss. Can Ivy punish Shield Toss?

I can pretty much jump around like a maniac once I'm within jump distance. J1 and j3 I can just abuse. And if I think your gonna jump to a2a me I can just j2 instead and beat you out. Or just bait the a2a and d2.

Once I get a kd or have you in a corner, it's just as oppressive as if you had me full screen with Yoshi out.
Yea you pretty much wanna play the mid to long range game with her. Be smart with meter so you can abuse her gaps, pushblock or roll. Sounds like you're playing it right

And yes she punishes shield toss anywhere on the screen
 

Crusty

Retired ATM
3) D1: as of right now, her d1 is the only d1 in the game that doesn't combo METERLESSLY into a special (correct me if I'm wrong). With d1 punishes being so important in the game, Ivy not being able to do it unless she has meter doesn't make her a key contender for d1 punishes. Her only punish she can get is d1 MB Datura and although it launches, the damage is abysmal for a bar since MB Datura only does ~80HP and then scales the combo heavily afterwards. A fix to this would let the cancel advantage be enough for her to link a drill. That way, she gets a simple punish for no meter and still has to spend meter to launch/combo.
You taking about ANY special or some specials.

If its the latter, GA's d1 savage blast no longer combos. He still has his annoying d1 arrow, or any other just as good special because he's safe if not plus on them.