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Strategy "There Is No Justice!" - Scorpion Oki & Mixups thread

REO

Undead
1,1,2~teleport is still the best.

f+2,2,u+3~teleport is good if you're into flashy stuff.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
f+2,2 into teleport is ass. 1,1,2~teleport is the best option and has been since day one. I think everyone just forgot and it's been overlooked.
Yep that is actually the way I end it every time to get the standing reset off of a spear, but I was trying to work with Gengar's tech and the f22u3 teleport ender at the gravity he was talking about. It is not being overlooked.
 

Gengar

Hypnosis > Dreameater (its a reset)
And what exactly is stopping the opponent from just teching the knockdown and rolling?
even with a roll scorpion is landing next to them, and now theyre stuck in the frames from the roll. the ai is just rolling backwards, which is landing us extremely close since the port is going over him, i dont know what would happen would the opponent roll forwards, as there is no option to have the ai roll a specific direction
 

Gengar

Hypnosis > Dreameater (its a reset)
even with a roll scorpion is landing next to them, and now theyre stuck in the frames from the roll. the ai is just rolling backwards, which is landing us extremely close since the port is going over him, i dont know what would happen would the opponent roll forwards, as there is no option to have the ai roll a specific direction
edit: never mind, seems like there is no "forward tech roll" so if you roll you roll right into scorp, because he lands in front of your roll, or behind it, however you wanna figure it as this is tons of directional change, the tech roll rolls different cuz the port makes you roll away from the screen hes coming in from, then scorp still flies over you and then you roll right into him
 
Ok this always bothered me but are MK players aware that when you set the AI to always jump it DOESN'T jump on the earliest frame?

It's not a good way to test frame advantage. I have done multiple testings with this method and its ass (e.g. I jump earlier than AI when in reality I'm -7).

A better way to test is recording the setup and hold up at the end and then manually hold up for the defending character.
 

REO

Undead
I seriously don't get the point of this. Why would anyone want to sacrifice the chance to go for a real reset with 1,1,2~teleport where your opponent has no option but to guess? Ending in f+2,2,u+3~teleport knockdown gives them the chance to tech roll and ability to use wake-ups. Nothing is guaranteed after that knockdown. You just guess afterwards like any other typical knockdown. As Scorpion why would you not want to put your opponent into his ridiculous vortex?

Zer0 Hundr3d, 1,1,2~teleport does more damage.
 

Gengar

Hypnosis > Dreameater (its a reset)
And what exactly is stopping the opponent from just teching the knockdown and rolling?
ok, so ive found a concrete way out of the set up. simply tech rolling is not enough, as you roll right into scorp, but you can techroll, then wake up, which gives you back your invul frames and lets you escape. i wouldnt suggest exclusively using this set up, but i assure you the first time this happens and the port whiffs, your opponents reaction is not "better tech to wake up" its more than likely oo he whiffed the port, now i can punish.

additionally, the timing is a bit strict on teching that knock down, as its not clear when you are able to begin the tech to get out, and if you whiff the tech then you just fucked up your blocking too

However, if you know your opponent is gonna tech roll and wake up, you can MB f3 which will armor through the wake up, and you have time to confirm it because youll see the rolling animation before the special comes out.

Edit: seems that depending which combo you use can actually change which side of scorpion the opponent will end up on after the tech roll, so they will have to have extensive knowledge of the set up to know which way to tech and then wake up in order to escape it
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
so the concept for the setup here is ending combos after a MB spear with nj2~f22d3.

*this is a untechable knockdown.
*it does the same damage as 112~telepunch ender in most combos.
*using the nj2 creates a crossup setup using a follow up j1/2 into string that cannot be backdashed (j3 option also) a f22d3 by itself would not get this crossover spacing.
*this messes with wakeup inputs and character dependant can full combo punish wakeup options sending wakeups the wrong way.
*empty jumping causes you to land in front of the opponent instead of behind, if you dont do a slight step back before the nj2 this wont happen on the smaller hitbox character for some reason.
* certain trait combos can also get the spacing were if ff2d3 is done after trait it will still get the crossup spacing like if a j2~f22d3 was used
*also just a simple dash to nj1/2 can be very useful but this can be backdashed


also of course using this over the 112~telepunch ender you are giving your opponent the option of a wakeup but versus some characters waking up is just want you want them to do,
the idea behind this is to give your opponent more to think about with the added crossover option/bait/empty jump along with any other untechable knockdown oki you like to play rather than just the fuzzy guardable 50/50 he currently has after 112~telepunch.


have fun!
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
This is good. I've been thinking of messing with this character now.

I always thought of him as just a gimmick-fest but maybe he's more than that.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
thanks man.
but on the other thing, go with you first thought lol

I was looking at him and man his strings wiff everywhere! I hate that...

Like the second hit of F113. The second hit of 21. The second hit of B12. Etc...

It's like they didn't even test this character before putting him out..

I kould use him but at a certain point it's just going to be gimmicks. Why do you always end up with these characters? Characters that would be good if they were fixed.. lol.
 

zaf

professor
Ima look into this and all the other things you have been posting ste.

Ill only play this game if I use scorpion and people want me to play
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
I was looking at him and man his strings wiff everywhere! I hate that...

Like the second hit of F113. The second hit of 21. The second hit of B12. Etc...

It's like they didn't even test this character before putting him out..

I kould use him but at a certain point it's just going to be gimmicks. Why do you always end up with these characters? Characters that would be good if they were fixed.. lol.

yea scorpion has alot of hitbox issues, not game breaking, just extremely frustrating.
MB tele being minus on hit at times and 2u3 are the ones the makes my eye twitch the most when it happens though lol

i dunno man, guess im just lucky like that but i want to play a MK character.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
yea scorpion has alot of hitbox issues, not game breaking, just extremely frustrating.
MB tele being minus on hit at times and 2u3 are the ones the makes my eye twitch the most when it happens though lol

i dunno man, guess im just lucky like that.

They're pretty game breaking to me if I was a Scorpion main...
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
They're pretty game breaking to me if I was a Scorpion main...

dunno about f113/b12 issues cause not all mids true mids and all that but id say 2u3 prob get fixed since its a overhead, till then i can only use it in certain mus
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
dunno about f113/b12 issues cause not all mids true mids and all that but id say 2u3 prob get fixed since its a overhead, till then i can only use it in certain mus

2u3 at least works up klose though. The others don't even work at point blank against Harley.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
2u3 at least works up klose though. The others don't even work at point blank against Harley.

yea at least its hits everyone in corner but its a odd thing to have to remember in a mu that u overhead whiffs on certain characters midscreen
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
yea at least its hits everyone in corner but its a odd thing to have to remember in a mu that u overhead whiffs on certain characters midscreen

Yeah so much memorization on that part and he's not even that good with it landing 100% since a lot of the strings are minus or have significant pushback...
 

Jaku2011

Filled with determination
I don't think I'll ever use 2u3 until its fixed, since I know I'm going to forget which characters it misses during a match. Not sure why we would use this don't we always want to leave them standing? Maybe the upcoming video will make it more clear to me.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Not sure why we would use this don't we always want to leave them standing? Maybe the upcoming video will make it more clear to me.

as stated in OP

"also of course using this over the 112~telepunch ender you are giving your opponent the option of a wakeup but versus some characters waking up is just want you want them to do,
the idea behind this is to give your opponent more to think about with the added crossover option/bait/empty jump along with any other untechable knockdown oki you like to play rather than just the fuzzy guardable 50/50 he currently has after 112~telepunch."
 

Jaku2011

Filled with determination
Eh guess I'm just not confident with Scorpion on knockdown if I knock them down I tend to just run away and hellfire