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The Wake Up Attack and AA explanation thread

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On Wake Up Attacks:

wake up attacks considered projectile type attacks have zero invincibility, other specials have invincibility only on start up, others have it until the point of impact.
For the ones with invincibility until the point of impact, this only applies to the first frame of impact. If your invincible wake up attack does not make contact on the first impact frame, the move loses its invincibility and can be beat out by or trade with your opponents attack. Certain attacks will change your opponents hit box, causing your wake up attack to barely miss on its first impact frame, this is why you get those "wtf.. how did that get beat out by/trade with your attack" moments.
For moves only invincible on start up, a well timed attack from you opponent will always beat it out as it connects after the start up frames.
A LOT of wake up attacks can be beat out by jumping. This is when you dash under the jump on wake up and can actually punish the whiffed jump in attacks...
SO... if the opponent is going to just flat out attack me straight up as I get up, I will wake up attack. If they try to use a jump in attack, I will dash under them and punish the whiffed jumping attack. This is called making a read.
Here is a common example of when REO and I would run Batman vs Aquaman.... Say he knocks me down in the corner...He will come in with B+23 as I wake up, if I read this then I will use my trident scoop as a wake up attack and launch him. If he reads that, he will come in and neutral jump attack or cross up jump in attack and beat out my wake up. If I read that, I will dash under him and punish the whiffed jump in. If i was wrong and dash and he attacks, I get hit and punished. if I am right, he gets punished. Its both players having to make a read. This is how the wake up system works and how making reads on wake up works.
On Anti-Air:
I hear so much complaining from people about anti-air. Usually its from one of two places..
1. people that play ridiculous safe rush down characters.
2. people that play ridiculous safe keep away characters.
It is common to see Flash players cry to high heaven for anti-air. Yes, lets have a character with safe mix ups. Now throw in B22 which is an advancing and hit confirmable string leading to 50%, also advantage on block setting up one of the best and safest frame traps in the game. He also has a 6 frame punisher for reversal attack punishing situations, AND a fast full screen super. Also, his main ender in combos is an untechable knockdown setting up the next SAFE mix up. This is not enough, they want a character that safely mixes you up, a character that you do not want to be close to that much. You have to run from him, fighting Flash punch for punch is ill advised. See.. these players also want to make sure that not only is it hard to defend vs him when he gets in, they wanna make sure that you also have no offensive options vs him either. I find this funny because if Superman AND Flash both got anti-air attacks, Flash players would cry all day about Superman now being able to stop all jump ins free... which exactly what they asked for with their character.
Take Doomsday.. his air throw does not have invincibility vs air attacks. It can be beaten out by jump ins. His uppercut is also not the most reliable AA either. Can you imagine if they gave him a great AA? Not only is it very hard to slow him down, but now you cant even attack him.​
Cyborg players are another example. Its hard enough to get in on him, now they want to make sure that its impossible. Get out of here lol...​
Yes, offensive juggernaut or safe keep out characters do not have great AA. However, the in-between characters do. People talk about Aquaman, or GL, or Sinestro, etc.. having good AA. These are spacing and pace control characters, not come in and rush you down safely characters or let me safely keep you out for eternity characters.​
Are you guys even aware that even without a good AA that you can use great spacing to get your opponents "jump in spam" to wiff, allowing you to full combo punish? Maybe you should try that. I play several character without an AA and STILL consistently punish jump ins with good spacing. Perhaps this radical new concept of good spacing as a means of making your opponents jump in attack whiff will help.
Learn the game, use ALL your characters strengths rather then complain about ONE weakness. Learn to exploit the weakness of the characters with a good AA, they have SEVERAL lol...​
 
On Wake Up Attacks:


Cyborg players are another example. Its hard enough to get in on him, now they want to make sure that its impossible. Get out of here lol...​
You have come in contact with other Cyborg players? lol

For the record I think his wake up and AA options are fine.
 

JaredL

Aww shit <REDACTED DUE TO FEELINGS> its Shapzam
Fuck wake up attacks tho.

I try to input black adams shitty lightning cage it never fucking comes out. I try to do deathstrokes crummy ass sword flip and it comes out 1000% of the time even if I as much fart on the 3 button.
 

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
Why do we have so many wake up attacks if they are all useless except one? If any attack my opponent does can shut down my wake ups, what's the point in calling them wakeups? Aren't they meant to interrupt pressure?

Also, not having a decent AA option just sucks. Doesn't matter if you are able to punish a jump in spammer with proper spacing....every character should at least have a reliable option about this.

What strenghts are you talking about lol...some characters are nearly useless compared to others, the game is not balanced at the moment. What's the point in playing Bane when there is Superman around?
 
in fact Aquaman has mad pressure, mad zoning and is arguably the hardest character to get in on. he has nothing but AA's...
seriously as long as jump ins lead to combos of any sort, your character is not viable without AA abilities. Plain and simple. Why do I have to get out zoned by jumping, pushed around the stage for free, and forced to respect a toddler because hes holding up?
"Why should I have to try on a Scrub?" - Tom Brady
 
in fact Aquaman has mad pressure, mad zoning and is arguably the hardest character to get in on. he has nothing but AA's...
seriously as long as jump ins lead to combos of any sort, your character is not viable without AA abilities. Plain and simple. Why do I have to get out zoned by jumping, pushed around the stage for free, and forced to respect a toddler because hes holding up?
"Why should I have to try on a Scrub?" - Tom Brady
Aquaman does not have "mad pressure", he also does not have continuous offense. he also does not have "mad zoning", he is not a zoner and his "zoning" is far from safe vs at least half the cast.

Does Aquaman have tech traps that GUARANTEE him a throw combo starter for a reset unless the opponent does a wake up attack, which can be baited and then they still die so they are fucked either way? No.. Do you know who does? hmmmmmmm..

Do you ever look at your tools, or just everyone elses? See, you guys want the other characters tools AND to keep your current tools as well. LOL..

Also, there is no argument on who the hardest character are to approach. Characters like Cyborg, Deathstroke, etc are much harder to approach than Aquaman.
 
Dont mistake your lack of execution for a "hard match". Cyborg currently block infinites 20 of 25 characters from full screen, including Aquaman.
If you talking about hitting ducking opponents like NW with inab than no I can't do it, and I haven't see anyone that can, but please if you can by all means show me how to.
 

Euphoric

MKX
Premium Supporter
Aquaman does not have "mad pressure", he also does not have continuous offense. he also does not have "mad zoning", he is not a zoner and his "zoning" is far from safe vs at least half the cast.

Does Aquaman have tech traps that GUARANTEE him a throw combo starter for a reset unless the opponent does a wake up attack, which can be baited and then they still die so they are fucked either way? No.. Do you know who does? hmmmmmmm..

Do you ever look at your tools, or just everyone elses? See, you guys want the other characters tools AND to keep your current tools as well. LOL..
Aquaman is good, from the XP I have against him, I agree with this. His zoning tool is like hella punishable and the Trident toss is ass. B12 low starter, block low react to his B2/F3, I don't know what "pressure" he has, he seems to be space and punish character.

But that's just my opinion as of now.
 

xWEBSx

Too old for this Shit
Breaking down logic to the illogical is a tall order and an uphill battle :(

Lessons I've learned through MANY years of fighting games...

-If a character has an OUTSTANDING AA- don't jump in on him.
-Defense is just as important as a ZOMGWTF 600 hit, 100% combo- learn to defend.
-If a character has outstanding zoning options- approach slowly and methodical
-Smart players not only learn the character they love the most, they also learn the capability of the rest of the cast as well.
-Rage Quitting is bad form online and in person.. Fighting is sport- be a good sport and take the loss.

See.. Many of these things are just basic staples, and if you do not keep your wits about you, are very easy to forget.. And once you forget.. You jump in on great AA, abandon all defense for offense, jump and try to rush at your zoning opponent, not knowing how or what to punish.. Getting yourself torn to shreds in the meantime.. Causing you to rage quit.

Yes these staples ARE easy to forget and sway away from..and if that is the case- just bring your game back to the basics..
If you choose to ignore these staples and still get torn to shreds ..

Here is the final staple..
-Refusing sound advice and help on how to handle situations in any game does in by no means mean the character/game is broken. You lose all right to bitch.. And a game should not be changed because YOU are having trouble.
 
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