Question The TRUTH about Cages F3 "Random Advantage"?

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

The more people I talk to about this the more differing opinions I get. I am hoping to put an end to this debate and get the actual truth. Some of the things I am hearing are...

F3 always has random advantage on block.
F3 only has it on crouch block if you try to jump out.
Random advantage doesn't exist in MK9, it just depends on when you release block.

Does anyone have the ACTUAL FACTS about this?

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

@GGA 16 Bit @GGA Dizzy @Somberness @Slips @R.E.O.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

I dont think its frame reaction. I believe that the person is afraid to poke or waiting for f33. So when f3 come out thet realize it to late

 

[Qwark28]

Random adv when trying to jump out, but it may be 1f to unblockable + pre jump frames.

 

[G4S KT]

it's most likely a symptom of releasing block too late.

block in MK9 has 0 frame start up but an unknown amount of recovery frames before you can act. If you release the block button while in block stun but before the block stun has finished you forego the normal recovery frames and can act as soon as blockstun is over.

If you're even 1 frame late releasing block you now get stuck with the additional recovery frames of "unblocking" which gives the appearance of random advantage

 

[RiBBz22]

F3 always wins

 

[RapZiLLa54]

 

[STRYKIE]

I dont think its frame reaction. I believe that the person is afraid to poke or waiting for f33. So when f3 come out thet realize it to late

Sort of this.

Random advantage can come into play but it shouldn't effect real time counterpoking outside of human error.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

From My experience (having armor move) that bs is no big of a deal. If I have to, soon or later I get in with my own d3 and perform my own pressure or back off.

 

[GGA Wafflez]

is this a ploy to downplay cage, an automatic top 5 character?

 

[TheTetraSpirit]

From everything they've researched, and in my own experience, random advantage only effects jumping out after crouch blocking the move.

 

[STRYKIE]

is this a ploy to downplay cage, an automatic top 5 character?

No it's a ploy to remind everybody that Smoke is top 3 and beats Cyrax because he can shake nets

 

[Dizzy]

From everything they've researched, and in my own experience, random advantage only effects jumping out after crouch blocking the move.

This is correct.

 

[KpTz | FOREVER WOLF]

LBSH idk if im right @GGA Dizzy - but cages f33 is -4 but has always been a problem. you got f3 which is neutral but if im jax and you do f3 and i know you arent gonna confirm it and stop into another f3 but i do 12 to counter the f3- somehow f3 will sometimes win.

also diz can you explain how to confront if someone does s3 and f3 beats my f4/s1 or how 1 3 into f3 beats my s1 or f4 as a jax player

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

So Dizzy and 16bit and Curbo confirmed with me that it ONLY happens when trying to jump out from crouching position i believe.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

The more people I talk to about this the more differing opinions I get. I am hoping to put an end to this debate and get the actual truth. Some of the things I am hearing are...

F3 always has random advantage on block.
F3 only has it on crouch block if you try to jump out.
Random advantage doesn't exist in MK9, it just depends on when you release block.

Does anyone have the ACTUAL FACTS about this?

i thought this was common knowledge but if you are asking i guess is not
this is what i found when i tested the advantage on block in mk9 ( this is a fact is not my opinion )

this apply to many characters but i will use cage since we are talking about him here

1) we can not talk about this without talking about block stun first... as you know block stun is the number of frame or how long your character have to wait before he can move or attack after blocking an attack.... in mk9 it is very hard to see when your character is out of block stun since the animation we see the character do when you are holding block looks very similar to the animation you see your character do while it is going through the block stun frames and since in mk9 there is not flash blue light ( or any color) to let you know at the exact time your character enters the block stun frames this makes it even harder to know at the exact time your character get out of stun frames ....

this is what makes block strings powerful in mk9 because more than knowing what is at -frames and what is at +frames on block you also need to have the timing down on when you have to stop holding block as well.

2) random frame advantage in mk9 is real thing
yes it is a real thing but not only for johnny cage's f3 but for others moves like jax's f413 as well... it changes from character to character but for johnny cage's f3 random advantage only happens if you crouch block the f3 (f33 has not random advantage)

 

[Dizzy]

LBSH idk if im right @GGA Dizzy - but cages f33 is -4 but has always been a problem. you got f3 which is neutral but if im jax and you do f3 and i know you arent gonna confirm it and stop into another f3 but i do 12 to counter the f3- somehow f3 will sometimes win.

also diz can you explain how to confront if someone does s3 and f3 beats my f4/s1 or how 1 3 into f3 beats my s1 or f4 as a jax player

This is because, assuming the jax and cage player are on perfect timing, the jax player only has 1 frame to do his attack. It literally must be perfect. If jax is on player 1, he has 2 frames.

To give an example of how tight this timing is, try punishing Smokes smoke bomb with cages F3. This is the precise timing needed to poke out with a 8f normal on player 2.

That said, many players I trained with became godlike at the timing. Such as @GGA HAN who as player 1 cyrax vs player 2 cage could consistently poke out of f3 pressure with cyrax standing 1 into 80% combos.

The summary of this is, its hard as fuck to do which is probably why youre getting beat out by it.

The latter part of your posts, sounds like you are expecting the opponent to continue the string and not letting go of block quick enough.

 

[KpTz | FOREVER WOLF]

This is because, assuming the jax and cage player are on perfect timing, the jax player only has 1 frame to do his attack. It literally must be perfect. If jax is on player 1, he has 2 frames.

To give an example of how tight this timing is, try punishing Smokes smoke bomb with cages F3. This is the precise timing needed to poke out with a 8f normal on player 2.

That said, many players I trained with became godlike at the timing. Such as @GGA HAN who as player 1 cyrax vs player 2 cage could consistently poke out of f3 pressure with cyrax standing 1 into 80% combos.

The summary of this is, its hard as fuck to do which is probably why youre getting beat out by it.

The latter part of your posts, sounds like you are expecting the opponent to continue the string and not letting go of block quick enough.

yea i understand that one frame gap. i think the other issue is trying it online lol but thx ur right i never really took into consideration how 0.01 of a second is really tight like i never really looked at it as 0.01 of a second