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Strategy The Tortoise and the Hare: Smoke vs. Turtlers

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
What's up Smoke forum. Does anyone else have a really hard time against opponents who turtle? Specifically those who are using a character with a fast special (Kano, Reptile, Raiden, Nightwolf, etc.). It seems like I have a really hard time approaching them and baiting them to do something so I can open them up without eating a special.

When you're playing a turtler as Smoke it seems to me that they put the ball in your court, forcing you to make the first move since you can't chip them from a distance. I've had mixed success doing things like full invis or smoke drift>block or cross up but haven't quite figured out how to handle it.

How do you guys deal with turtlers?
 
First, smoke bomb them until you have full meter (this is the biggest reason to avoid turtling - it gives you a huge advantage). Then blockdash or smoke teleport into a range where you can threaten a jump in. At that range they need to either stop turting (as the jump in gives you a free mixup, and that's really bad for them) or they'll continue to retreat until they're cornered. Both situations suck for them.

Turtling like that is a really bad tactic, and as long as you think about the situation rather than getting outraged or impatient you'll come out on top every time.

If you happened to get enough meter from them blocking smoke bombs, you can also blockdash into the range where enhanced teleport crosses up, then do enhanced teleport. Their turtling should pay for the meter to do it, and it's very hard to react appropriately to it because early moves will go the wrong way (think Raiden's teleport, but they won't be expecting it). Enjoy your free mixup opportunity.
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
Smoke bomb to gain meter then enhanced smoke drift sounds like a good plan.

I've had really bad luck with jump ins, though. I guess I just shouldn't do it against characters with fast specials.

Earlier today I played a reptile who only used the dash and the slide and blocked the rest of the time. Maybe I was eating more dashes than I would have offline, but it was like I couldn't make a move without getting dashed.
 
I'll add that if you're playing something like a knife-happy Kano or the lot, Shake's going to put you right in their face with no effort at all. That's usually all I've had to wait for with most opponents.
 
I've had really bad luck with jump ins, though. I guess I just shouldn't do it against characters with fast specials.
The point isn't to jump in blindly. You shouldn't do that, especially if they consistently anti-air you. The point is that at any time you can *threaten* a jump in, which limits their options badly.

Earlier today I played a reptile who only used the dash and the slide and blocked the rest of the time. Maybe I was eating more dashes than I would have offline, but it was like I couldn't make a move without getting dashed.
Both of those moves are hugely unsafe. Block-dash over and block those moves and enjoy your free damage.
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
Yea, I blocked about half of his dashes and they did look unsafe, but I couldn't punish them. I guess that online they're more safe depending on connection.

I also got beat by a competent jax last week who used the same strategy with the dash punch. I was trying to naked duck and punish but that was pretty difficult to time as well (this was online also)
 

GNG Iniquity

#bufftaquito #punchwalk #whiffycage
I'll add that if you're playing something like a knife-happy Kano or the lot, Shake's going to put you right in their face with no effort at all. That's usually all I've had to wait for with most opponents.
Use an invisible shake, it makes it much sneakier.
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
I probably just need to face more people like this, be given a few beat downs, and internalize how to handle it.

I really believe the best way to learn something is to get your ass kicked by it.
 
Yea, I blocked about half of his dashes and they did look unsafe, but I couldn't punish them. I guess that online they're more safe depending on connection.
Slide can be punished in even the laggiest of matches. If you have trouble punishing dash, mash throw.

I also got beat by a competent jax last week who used the same strategy with the dash punch. I was trying to naked duck and punish but that was pretty difficult to time as well (this was online also)
I believe that jax's punch is safe on block, so in this case it's a bit more of a viable strategy. His dash punch goes over smoke bomb too. You need to find a new strategy against him.