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Strategy The Subzero tech/strat video thread

ryublaze

Noob
Premium Supporter
if youre using it as a flash parry why not just slide and break if its blocked? same exact effect with pushback.

no i dont use it because it doesnt have armour the first few frames and its extremely situational
i thought frame data said it had invincibility for frames 1-2 (like all x-ray moves) and can only be interrupted if u charge the x-ray. i'd probably use it if it would win me the match, but otherwise I'd EX Slide or try to poke out of pressure.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
i thought frame data said it had invincibility for frames 1-2 (like all x-ray moves) and can only be interrupted if u charge the x-ray. i'd probably use it if it would win me the match, but otherwise I'd EX Slide or try to poke out of pressure.
frame data is wrong on a few moves

ive tried xraying through zoning multiple times the exact frame a projectile hit me and my xray was stuffed
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
if youre using it as a flash parry why not just slide and break if its blocked? same exact effect with pushback.

no i dont use it because it doesnt have armour the first few frames and its extremely situational
Ex slide = Minimal damage, puts your breaker on the line, potentially gives the opponent access to unbreakables.
Xray or flash parry = 3 bars, safe, high reward.

I wouldn't say they have the same effect. It is really situational because Sub will usually just want to poke out of pressure, but my main point is that it can be more effective than ex slide if that's the read you're going to make.

Also the frame data's not wrong, you can test Xray's invincibility frames by interrupting a string like Sub's 214. I think it's a good idea to trust Somberness or at least be skeptical rather than saying he'a flat out wrong on something lol.
 

ryublaze

Noob
Premium Supporter
Somberness

and also IIRC my X-Ray gets interrupted if I'm low on health and that projectile hit me during my armor frames thus me losing the round/match.
 

Knoterror

Premium
Premium Supporter
If I'm going to swag out an X-Ray, my favorite thing to do is use it when people do something I wouldn't be able to punish otherwise.

Sub mirror 224~Clone? Fuck youuuuuuuu.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Ex slide = Minimal damage, puts your breaker on the line, potentially gives the opponent access to unbreakables.
Xray or flash parry = 3 bars, safe, high reward.

I wouldn't say they have the same effect. It is really situational because Sub will usually just want to poke out of pressure, but my main point is that it can be more effective than ex slide if that's the read you're going to make.

Also the frame data's not wrong, you can test Xray's invincibility frames by interrupting a string like Sub's 214. I think it's a good idea to trust Somberness or at least be skeptical rather than saying he'a flat out wrong on something lol.
there are multiple moves that do not function according to the frame data

ex slide is a third of the damage

puts breaker on the line, what about xray that doesnt even give you a chance to preserve those 2 bars?

not saying it doesnt have its uses, just 99% of the time ex slide is better
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
The base line of this this

exSlide:
Good: armor, 1 bar, position change
Bad: full combo punish, 3/4 armor, 11% damage (9% if broken)
x-ray:
Good: Safe, invinc and armor, super fast, cancellable, 33% damage no break
Bad: uses 3 bars

Sad part..... Kenshi's exSC is almost as good as our x-ray.
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
there are multiple moves that do not function according to the frame data

ex slide is a third of the damage

puts breaker on the line, what about xray that doesnt even give you a chance to preserve those 2 bars?

not saying it doesnt have its uses, just 99% of the time ex slide is better
Xray is the same risk in terms of meter, less risk in terms of punishment, and much more rewarding. Imho it has some potential in the right circumsance.
In your expert opinion, please let me know what doesn't function according to Somberness' frame data. Don't mean to sound harsh but you don't know everything man.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Xray is the same risk in terms of meter, less risk in terms of punishment, and much more rewarding. Imho it has some potential in the right circumsance.
In your expert opinion, please let me know what doesn't function according to Somberness' frame data. Don't mean to sound harsh but you don't know everything man.
subzeros xray, ive been hit both off and online when tapping the buttons to go through a projectile while the projectile itself wouldnt kill me on hit

ermacs d3 on block

quan chis 212 from a jip

its not the same risk most of the time, it can also provide you good positioning and sometimes you cant just afford to waste all your bars

both have their uses but like i said 99% of the time doing ex slide in better when youre desperate to escape pressure and have 3 bars

if any unbreakable damage is really a threat then thats within the 1% that you should xray
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
subzeros xray, ive been hit both off and online when tapping the buttons to go through a projectile while the projectile itself wouldnt kill me on hit

ermacs d3 on block

quan chis 212 from a jip

its not the same risk most of the time, it can also provide you good positioning and sometimes you cant just afford to waste all your bars

both have their uses but like i said 99% of the time doing ex slide in better when youre desperate to escape pressure and have 3 bars

if any unbreakable damage is really a threat then thats within the 1% that you should xray
Idk whether you're right or wrong about those examples, but what I was trying to get across is that unless you can 100% prove that something is incorrect then there's no need to talk like it's a fact. Same thing with matchup discussions and stuff like that...Like, I believe there's no use for the ice puddle but I'm willing to say that maybe there's something I just don't know. Saying what you think as if it's absolute truth is just counterproductive. Sorry I'll quit ranting now.

When you're using ex slide you either have to be willing to eat the opponent's combo if you guess wrong, or you're putting all 3 bars on the line with breaker.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Idk whether you're right or wrong about those examples, but what I was trying to get across is that unless you can 100% prove that something is incorrect then there's no need to talk like it's a fact. Same thing with matchup discussions and stuff like that...Like, I believe there's no use for the ice puddle but I'm willing to say that maybe there's something I just don't know. Saying what you think as if it's absolute truth is just counterproductive. Sorry I'll quit ranting now.

When you're using ex slide you either have to be willing to eat the opponent's combo if you guess wrong, or you're putting all 3 bars on the line with breaker.
thats because i had assumed its not armoured at the start but about 10f after startup baed on my experience with it

yeah, whats the difference with the xray? you're using all your bars anyway

its easy to say something is better when youre taking the other example with its worst outcomes

ex slide on hit= 11%, bars preserved

ex slide on block= all bars lost or vulnerable to unbreakable dmg

xray on hit= 33% unbreakable, all bars lost

xray on block= out of pressure all bars, lost

if you absolutely need to get out of pressure or need the unbreakable damage to win it then xray is the best

for any other situation, any chance of preserving meter which is very important especially for sub, slide is better
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
thats because i had assumed its not armoured at the start but about 10f after startup baed on my experience with it

yeah, whats the difference with the xray? you're using all your bars anyway

its easy to say something is better when youre taking the other example with its worst outcomes

ex slide on hit= 11%, bars preserved

ex slide on block= all bars lost or vulnerable to unbreakable dmg

xray on hit= 33% unbreakable, all bars lost

xray on block= out of pressure all bars, lost

if you absolutely need to get out of pressure or need the unbreakable damage to win it then xray is the best

for any other situation, any chance of preserving meter which is very important especially for sub, slide is better
I am factoring in the good & bad outcomes and from the looks of everything Xray still seems like it could be a better option at times. The only time you'll be preserving your meter with ex slide is if it hits...and if the Xray hits I would say that you're generally getting your money's worth.

I don't wanna say that my opinion is absolute and don't think you should either because that gets us nowhere :/
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Xray only has armor when it moves forward.
if you charge it any... then you're vulernerable. I think somberness said somewhere that SZ's xray is one of the few that is extremely hard to get the invincibility frames... because you can charge it and there are a few frames where he doesn't move forward.

So I think there are like 4 frames inbetween startup and release where he can be hit for free.

Its all risk reward.

I get what Seapeople is saying. It is all about your level of safety. xray is completely safe on block. He isn't talking about using in just retardedly tight windows (for invinc) but rather situations where, if your opponent guesses right, you could die, or loose all bars anyway.
SZ's xray is -4 and has pushback and for some reason everyone and their mother thinks they can punish it, and they can't. 90% of the time they'll dash in and eat a standing 2 or allow you to dash in and get a blockstring.

I think exSlide is fine, and there is a time and a place for the xray.

I also understand what Qwark is saying. You get more opportunites to use exSlide, so it "seems" like 99% of the time its better (because its more natural).

I'd also say that using the xray parry or to get out of pressure would heavily depend on who you're fighting. Someone I could lame out... i'd be more willing to use it, vs someone like KL or Kabal or Cyrax... who can pressure you anywhere, or kill you with one touch.