that ending lolol

GILGAMESH

That was ace.

Only thing I'd say as a random medicore player on the topic of people arguing with top players.

It was the same 'top players' who people often argued with because they had some really derpy opinions which were later exposed and were dicks about it.

Obviously you're guna have idiots but I don't think that should be the justification for them all leaving unless their ego is that bad. It's probably just Twitter.

Think a lot of top players just have too much of an ego, people disagree with them and they just discredit the site as full of scrubs. A lot of the time they're probably right but at least it opens up a dialogue and people can argue and explore matchups. If you don't like their opinion just agree to disagree

Less than halfway through, but I don't think no MK11 announcement because of new consoles. Sony says 2021 for the next console, and I think Microsoft just announced they started working on one so that should be years away too.

Great show so far, keep em coming.

Downloading the MP3, will start listening on my way home from work. Glad to hear this may become a regular thing!

Great show again guys, particularly enjoyed the talks on match up numbers/charts and why they're practically meaningless.

It's also really interesting to hear older stories from the FGC as Slips has a lot of history to draw from so if you were thinking on segments then a section where you do into the history of a particular game or tournament would be fantastic. Tekken would be a logical place to start considering Slips history with the franchise but any of the older stuff is always great as it tends to be hard to find information on.

Well said, and I didn't get to it on the show, but I think a big problem is the unfortunate ego boost that can be the 'top player' title. You are a 'top player' once and for life if you have one strong showing, if you beat certain people online, are the best with a certain character (regardless of results). That term has now lost all meaning, and I think it sucks because that term is what makes people feel enlightened over the average player, when really that may not actually be true and you still have much to learn.

I went into the discussion prepared to bash TYM, but the longer it went on the more I was remembering how our top players/community leaders abused the power of their voice for more harm than good with their own agendas.

Can't blame TYM for wanting to combine its resources with top player influence, it just kind of sucked TYM couldn't recognize what was constructive criticism vs. toxic banter and it caused a divide in trust between top players/community leaders and the platform TYM provided.

TYM is still here though and still plush with content and info. Here's to looking forward.

Oink.

I can see both sides to it, but a lot of top players have to check their ego. They expect respect and shamelessly fish for props while shitting on everyone who hasnt placed top 8 in a major tourney.

Other top players are ace and chill. Meeting a bunch in person, none of the EU guys i cant say a bad word about.

Great podcast guys. Absolutely great. I tuned in to listen to the commentary on TYM to begin with, you guys are both incredibly easy to listen to, very knowledgeable, and I am going to sit down and listen to the whole thing later while I'm in the workshop.

I've always found @KingHippo 's posts to be very well reasoned and thought out, and you do a great job of conveying that in open speech as well, and gave a very strong opinion on why the forum is the way it is without joining in the circlejerk on either side of the "why did top players leave TYM" topic. I love both your opinions on what match-ups are as well. You did a great job at not getting sucked into what everyone "just does".

I think the discussion points are a little bit long and disorganized.
You should invite more people to join in on the discussion.

It's not cnn.

Just two dudes having a laugh and giving their hot takes.

Yea will try to see it when I get home, but just from reading comments here...

Player opinions should always be taken with a pinch of salt, regardless of how good they are imo.

As for TYM v Top players.... idk. Haven't been here long enough to speak about it but I've seen discussions on the site between top 8/tournament regulars and it's a bit back and forth between who's actually in the wrong. Yeah some top players have ego's and shit but then if ppl remember members like Yung_Hokage or Meridian1000 then you kinda see how the website might get discredited. Calling GL and Poison Ivy top 5, what, a week, if that, after a patch just came out is a pretty scrub move. Not actually discussing it, just saying shit like "Wait till Poison Ivy and GL fill top 8's and then you'll see"

Basically what I'm saying is yeah some top players have ego's but TYM isn't short of people who will call shit out and just BM for everyone who disagrees with them too. Granted they usually don't last long, but it's just a reoccurring theme to me, just with different names.

Both sides have problems, need to be able to see both sides imo.

@Slips @KingHippo

I'm at the video breakdown where you guys are analyzing the noble semis vs. tweedy video and I have to say we need more content like this.

Just the first 10 seconds made me stop what I was doing just to watch this. I can't express how happy I am that you guys are providing this content, especially on TYM were a lot of top players have left. Keep supporting the scene, you guys are the unsung heroes of our community.

*goes back to watching podcast*

Slips: "I can't f*cking stand matchup charts."

Me:

It's ok, I'll tag them

I just want to add that I don't necessarily agree with everything being said, but I think it's very well put forth.

However I was actually re-reading one of those threads you vaguely referenced from back in the day, just last week. I think you have to take into account that a LOT of people thought that toxic way of arguing opinions and the appeals to authority were really detracting from the nature of it being an open forum. It continued on none the less, from a few very vocal well known posters in particular who you mentioned in that video, and it felt like over time more and more people starting giving up on TYM because of this attitude in how their opinions had to be received that they insisted on cultivating. It's only after this fact with many quality posters no longer posting, that those very same people who contributed to this decline started lamenting the state of TYM, and decreeing the "upstart plebs" as the reason all the top players have left, when it reality.... history says it was the opposite.

I would definitely agree that the scene was cannibalistic, in that sense, and it wasn't just top players contributing to the atmosphere, it was the mid-tier and even lower players, too. At the same time, I think you had to separate people who were actually saying the way discussion was happening was borked vs. the pearl-clutchers who talked about how tournaments would be affected by dudes who were loud on the forums, and would often cite "declining" player-base as a reason for that. Clearly that wasn't the case, nor will it ever be; TYM is far too small for that to matter much.

But yes, I do think that the lack of acknowledgement from certain players about the way they acted being pretty bad for the scene is unfortunate, because they see it as critiques of their personal characters and not of their actions. Giving back via content and things of that nature does not automatically make you void of criticism that you may have pushed people away, and I wish that you could hold people more accountable for that without getting a screaming fit.

Excellent response, I can't argue it. You guys are real champs, keep up the great stuff, I'll be tuning in from now on.

We appreciate your viewership!

That's exactly it. Some top players needed a blog but instead they took it to a public forum.