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The Reason GA's Arrows do 0.1% on chip, 1% on hit.

Cossner

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Administrator
Batrangs do 3% chip.
Superman does 5.5% with zap, 2% lasers.
NW does 2% with spark, 1.6% with staff.
DS post nerf does 1.2%.
Cyborg does 2%.
Sinestro 1.25%


Green Arrow gets .1% normal arrows, .7% with fire and electric arrows. Frozen arrows do nothing.

The reason for this, obviously, is:

NRS heard I liked GA so they made their best effort to piss me off.

So what's the point of playing GA as a zoning-pressure character? What's the point of jumping around, risking yourself to get hit by whatever other tools the other character has (Lantern's might, Raven's grab, Walking Corpse, any other projectile in the game) and force the other guy to attack you, since all you get is 5% on a nice friday? Why do the other characters get way, waaaayyy more damage than Green Arrow, without having to load an arrow and get punished for it? Why do we only get 3 decent projectiles (fire arrow), that are just 'decent' compared to what the other characters have?

Btw, let me remind you guys. the start up on arrows is 22 frames. Meaning, the trade isn't even worth it mid to full screen. Hey that guy threw something! Let me punish him with arrows! oh, it traded and I got 1% and he got 7%. Totally fair.

*But hey Kawsnur, he can cancel strings into arrows!*

These are the options you get if you cancel a string into a standing arrow on block (+3 maybe? sometimes it's like +2 for some reason):
- Block.
- D1 that leads to nothing because you don't have arrows and no, you can't do d1 xx standing arrow, it just doesn't work.
If they block a low arrow you are at +1. Which is useless because GA strings are slow as fuck, and you can back dash anyways.

You get the same advantage for all types of arrows (for the guy that says you're at +8, that's not correct).

*But Costner, he must fill like a shit ton of meter right!?!?*

Yeah totally, they fill 1% of a bar each arrow. Meaning it'd take me more than 400 arrows launched to get a full meter.

*Koaster you're such a downplayer, doesn't he get like MB stinger which is an extremely hard to block low overhead? Don't you get like a billion options after that?*

Nop. I can get the fuck out of there if they block it for sure but I don't have any options after that, it's +5 at best and the only normal that reaches all the way there is f2, which loses to everything.

*Krosner you just suck, Chris G proved green arrow is S+ tier, d1 xx arrow is uninterruptible and f2d13 is too hard to block*

Ok :(

But why? What's the reasoning behind this? Why is the risk/reward factor of the arrows so bad? colt

Discuss.

 
Cossner

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Administrator
zuurrkk said:
He was nerfed SO much for no reason too.
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I believe it's always been like this ;_;

His strings that lead into +15 and f2d13 into super were the big nerfs.
Because I mean, positive strings plus his amazing mix up game? I mean who can stop the f2d1 xx low arrow machine?!?!?
 
Cossner

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Administrator
SimSim said:
You should mention that none of GA's arrows build meter because they are his trait. So yea, not only does he not have a trait in addition to his projectiles like other characters, but it also makes it so that his zoning doesn't build meter.
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They do build meter.
Around 1% of a bar per arrow landed (.25%).

I counted.
 
ZigZag

ZigZag

That Welsh Guy
It doesn't seem fair for it to be not even 1% on block, however GA's speed has everything to do with this.

Just tap a button and fire arrows pretty damn quickly would be OP if his damage was too high, you even get arrows out quicker than other projectiles due to the fact it's just pushing a button and not input directions at all.

If he had at least 1% on chip I could live with it, but otherwise if you took his damage on the arrows up too much you would see that the speed + damage would eventually account for alot of damage.
 
Duck Nation

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
It's worth noting that it makes sense for his normal arrows to be weak, since you want to give players an actual impetus to load the special arrows. Doing 2% on hit and maybe 0.3% on block would still be completely within the bounds of reason, just as an example, but how much further can you really go with that? As ZigZag did accurately note, Green Arrow can fire the damn things pretty quickly, and for what normal arrows are really intended for - just as a way to interrupt the opponent from doing something, or to gain a bit of frame advantage - they do okay. What DOESN'T make sense, though, is how shitty his other options are with arrows given the effort involved to load them and their limited use. Everyone knows ice is by far his best option almost all of the time, with even the most heavily tournament tested Arrow players staying away from fire or electric outside of extremely limited circumstances or situations. The question should really be why fire and electric arrows are shit, rather than his normal ones.
 
GodsLonelyman

GodsLonelyman

Noob
Besides everything you've just stated, all of his "fast" strings have zero reach. It's really difficult to find an opening with this character. Everyone knows how to block him now so he's no longer viable. And don;t even get me started on his terrible super. You wont ever get max damage because by the time you manage to get the meter and land it, they'll clash you before you can even finish it, so you'll always end up wasting 4 bars to do 40'ish wich some characters can do with 1 bar or less. LOL. I guess making his stinger MB able was NRS pathetic attempt at upping his meter usage. Great job guys, give aus a mb move on block that pushes them back and we cant pressure or reach with our t-rex arms. Character is ass.
 
migosan

migosan

MK Philippines / Injustice Philippines
noticed this even way before, yeah,i think nrs overlooked this one, i feel bad for ga, they couldve at least buffed normal arrows, no loading just do some decent damage
 
SimSim

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
As Duck Nations says, it does make sense that normal arrows are kind of weak since they are fast, can be fired as overhead and low etc. But even then, they should be a tiny bit stronger. And I completely agree with him on fire and electric arrows. Since you actually have to load them for 2/3 projectiles at the time, they should be pretty strong, yet most of the time you are better off just loading your 1 ice arrow instead.
 
miloPKL

miloPKL

soundcloud.com/pukelization
as a lex player his green arrows suck because they stuff everything i try to start up naked. the fire arrows cause knockdown and are fast and annoying as fuck. they do more damage than gunshots. you can fire them overhead air or straight air or anti air or standing or crouching. so your green arrow does no damage, its still annoying as fuck and can check your enemy when he is pressing buttons or you can counter zone with them in the air etc. anyway green arriws counter zoning is good. his trait is good. fire arrows are good. ice arrow is good. none of it is the best.
 
Cossner

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Administrator
Duck Nation said:
It's worth noting that it makes sense for his normal arrows to be weak, since you want to give players an actual impetus to load the special arrows. Doing 2% on hit and maybe 0.3% on block would still be completely within the bounds of reason, just as an example, but how much further can you really go with that? As ZigZag did accurately note, Green Arrow can fire the damn things pretty quickly, and for what normal arrows are really intended for - just as a way to interrupt the opponent from doing something, or to gain a bit of frame advantage - they do okay. What DOESN'T make sense, though, is how shitty his other options are with arrows given the effort involved to load them and their limited use. Everyone knows ice is by far his best option almost all of the time, with even the most heavily tournament tested Arrow players staying away from fire or electric outside of extremely limited circumstances or situations. The question should really be why fire and electric arrows are shit, rather than his normal ones.
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SimSim said:
As Duck Nations says, it does make sense that normal arrows are kind of weak since they are fast, can be fired as overhead and low etc. But even then, they should be a tiny bit stronger. And I completely agree with him on fire and electric arrows. Since you actually have to load them for 2/3 projectiles at the time, they should be pretty strong, yet most of the time you are better off just loading your 1 ice arrow instead.
Click to expand...
You know guys, I thought the exact same way.

Arrows are made to stop zoners and to create pressure to get in, not to zone.

But then I checked the other characters, characters that have tracking projectiles as fast as GA's arrows, like Nightwing. And then I saw he did WAY more damage. And he didn't even have to load anything!
What's the point having a "fast projectile" (22 frames) if you get outzoned by everyone?
You can't throw arrows at KF, or Raven, or Aquaman, or Superman.

Imagine every character has the equivalent of Fire Arrows, permanently, and they can throw it faster than GA.

(For people who don't play GA, it's frustrating to do all these shenanigans just to load arrow safely and then wasting it when people block it getting what, no chip or .7 chip?)
 
SimSim

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
x5STAR said:
as a lex player his green arrows suck because they stuff everything i try to start up naked. the fire arrows cause knockdown and are fast and annoying as fuck. they do more damage than gunshots. you can fire them overhead air or straight air or anti air or standing or crouching. so your green arrow does no damage, its still annoying as fuck and can check your enemy when he is pressing buttons or you can counter zone with them in the air etc. anyway green arriws counter zoning is good. his trait is good. fire arrows are good. ice arrow is good. none of it is the best.
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I kind of disagree with this as Lex mops up GA. How annoying do you think it is for GA to load an ice arrow against Lex, see Lex armor up and realize that your 1 ice arrow now means 0. If you are annoyed by GA zoning, you are being impatient and not realizing that you are not taking damage from it.
 
Cossner

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Administrator
x5STAR said:
as a lex player his green arrows suck because they stuff everything i try to start up naked. the fire arrows cause knockdown and are fast and annoying as fuck. they do more damage than gunshots. you can fire them overhead air or straight air or anti air or standing or crouching. so your green arrow does no damage, its still annoying as fuck and can check your enemy when he is pressing buttons or you can counter zone with them in the air etc. anyway green arriws counter zoning is good. his trait is good. fire arrows are good. ice arrow is good. none of it is the best.
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rev0lver. How do you feel about Green Arrows arrows in this match up which is totally not in Lex's favor?


x5STAR said:
the fire arrows cause knockdown
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This actually sucks major balls. Here's the benefit GA gets from getting a knockdown from fire arrows: none. In the corner you can swag it out but it'd be a billion times better if they just led to frame advantage without pushback, like electrics but less shitty.
 
Duck Nation

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
Cossner said:
You know guys, I thought the exact same way.

Arrows are made to stop zoners and to create pressure to get in, not to zone.

But then I checked the other characters, characters that have tracking projectiles as fast as GA's arrows, like Nightwing. And then I saw he did WAY more damage. And he didn't even have to load anything!
What's the point having a "fast projectile" (22 frames) if you get outzoned by everyone?
You can't throw arrows at KF, or Raven, or Aquaman, or Superman.

Imagine every character has the equivalent of Fire Arrows, permanently, and they can throw it faster than GA.

(For people who don't play GA, it's frustrating to do all these shenanigans just to load arrow safely and then wasting it when people block it getting what, no chip or .7 chip?)
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Sure. I agree with all of this. This is why I've said repeatedly that fire and electric arrows need to be a lot better than they are. For the effort he has to invest, fire arrows should be one of the best projectiles in the game, not a mediocre one, and electric should at least have some worthwhile niche. Buffing up his normal arrows a bunch without touching those would just serve to reinforce their crappiness and diminish the spirit of the character.
 
miloPKL

miloPKL

soundcloud.com/pukelization
hold your horses. i dont think the matchup is bad for lex nor bad for GA. my main training buddy is a GA main. i think the MU is 5-5. maybe you guys should play a few thousand games at the matchup before making your decision.
 
GodsLonelyman

GodsLonelyman

Noob
SimSim said:
I kind of disagree with this as Lex mops up GA. How annoying do you think it is for GA to load an ice arrow against Lex, see Lex armor up and realize that your 1 ice arrow now means 0. If you are annoyed by GA zoning, you are being impatient and not realizing that you are not taking damage from it.
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Was gonna say something similar. When you have that ice arrow and lex has his armor going you're left with your dick in your hand.
 
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