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The Problems Of Breakaway

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
So once you breakaway, you lose the ability to ignore chip until your meter refills. You also can't use armor interactables including corner escapes, etc.

You pretty much either delay or take the guessing games Liu Kang, Sonya, Geras, etc force on you.

I think it's fine. Especially when you can break corner escape armor. That makes you feel godlike.
Almost nobody playing at a high level thinks this is enough of a concern to not just break away. If you're gonna die from the inability to ignore chip, you'll die from eating the combo in full anyway. There is no situation in which it isn't better to just breakaway.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Almost nobody playing at a high level thinks this is enough of a concern to not just break away. If you're gonna die from the inability to ignore chip, you'll die from eating the combo in full anyway. There is no situation in which it isn't better to just breakaway.

I disagree. You can't die from chip and from a combo at the same time. One of the biggest complaints I saw all over Twitter is how people hate chip death. With no metee after a breakaway, you're now vulnerable to getting chipped to death and there are definitely characters in this game that can do it.

Most of the time, I've seen breakaway practically used once a round because it takes something like 36 seconds to build enough bar back to do it again. These rounds go by really fast as it is. 36 seconds is a lot of time not to be able to use armored interacts(which have KBs attached to them), escapes, rolls, etc.

Sure, breakaway can be annoying. But it's really not that bad. You're always gonna have YOLO play, breakaway or no. That's just a part of fighting games.
 
I feel like the break away system is okay I just feel like it should definitely take way longer then it should to comeback. I had a guy were had to play hard ass footsies and I hit confirmed 3 times in a round and all 3 times my opponent broke away. on top of the he played sonya so wtf. it hasn't happened while like that however if someone knows what they're doing it can be really stupid. so I think making break away take longer to recover defensive meter would be a way better solution.
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
it's that the defense bar regenerates fast enough that this can end up happening AGAIN the very next time you win the neutral.

How long does it take to regenerate, though? To me that's the big thing. With breakaway the opponent gets to avoid damage and have a shot at getting back to neutral without taking too much damage, but even once they're back in neutral they're still going to be without resources for the next 10-20 seconds at least. This means that all of a sudden even a simple knockdown is going to lead to much more pressure.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
How long does it take to regenerate, though? To me that's the big thing. With breakaway the opponent gets to avoid damage and have a shot at getting back to neutral without taking too much damage, but even once they're back in neutral they're still going to be without resources for the next 10-20 seconds at least. This means that all of a sudden even a simple knockdown is going to lead to much more pressure.
A: It takes 20 seconds which is not a lot of time in this game. That amount of time passes without a clean hit all the time.
B: Wake up blocking in this game off a knockdown is really not a big deal. It's still better than getting combo'd and oki'd afterward.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I disagree. You can't die from chip and from a combo at the same time. One of the biggest complaints I saw all over Twitter is how people hate chip death. With no metee after a breakaway, you're now vulnerable to getting chipped to death and there are definitely characters in this game that can do it.

Most of the time, I've seen breakaway practically used once a round because it takes something like 36 seconds to build enough bar back to do it again. These rounds go by really fast as it is. 36 seconds is a lot of time not to be able to use armored interacts(which have KBs attached to them), escapes, rolls, etc.

Sure, breakaway can be annoying. But it's really not that bad. You're always gonna have YOLO play, breakaway or no. That's just a part of fighting games.
Yeah but at least they'd be paying for that YOLO play.

Also that time goes by in no time in lame footsie MU's. If it's Kabal vs Kabal pretty much every launch is getting broken. That's not interesting gameplay.
 
The only issue I have is with forward rolls. People complain about breakaways and getting blown up for hitting the opponent, yet forward rolls are the exact same thing.
I promise you man if someone likes to roll all the time and you can make the read. throw there ass to death they wont roll again. I've done it and also have had it done to me as well. now I play smarter with roll and delay wake up. literally Mix them up while you're knocked down.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Yeah but at least they'd be paying for that YOLO play.

Also that time goes by in no time in lame footsie MU's. If it's Kabal vs Kabal pretty much every launch is getting broken. That's not interesting gameplay.


That's pretty anecdotal, don't you think? Something not being "interesting" to you personally is not a valid reason to change a core game mechanic. Especially when, in a lot of cases, the character that used tne breakaway is right in front of you.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Something fucked up with the quote option. My bad. Reply in the quote lol
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
In lame play MU's literally no one "wins" neutral because breakaway is always up. I don't see that's not dumb.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
I promise you man if someone likes to roll all the time and you can make the read. throw there ass to death they wont roll again. I've done it and also have had it done to me as well. now I play smarter with roll and delay wake up. literally Mix them up while you're knocked down.
Sure. I get that, but you can make the read on breakaway and just uppercut.

But that’s not the question, the question is, should they be able to?
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
In lame play MU's literally no one "wins" neutral because breakaway is always up. I don't see that's not dumb.

That's just not true. The person That's used the breakaway is now on the ground with the aggressor in front of them. They have to guess on a delay or take whatever 50/50, strike/grab mix, etc the aggressor decides to execute. The aggressor is dictating the pace at that point.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
That's just not true. The person That's used the breakaway is now on the ground with the aggressor in front of them. They have to guess on a delay or take whatever 50/50, strike/grab mix, etc the aggressor decides to execute. The aggressor is dictating the pace at that point.
I'm never scared of this scenario in this game.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
That may be true, but your personal feelings shouldn't dictate system-wide changes.
Still doesn't change my overarching argument that breakaway and it's accessibility is toxic to the rest of the unique features of the game and encroaches on them.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Still doesn't change my overarching argument that breakaway and it's accessibility is toxic to the rest of the unique features of the game and encroaches on them.
You can repeat the same wrong argument as much as you want. Still doesn't make it anymore than your personal feelings.

As far as the above scenario goes, I sure do hate having to take Liu Kang's guessing game cause he read my breakaway. Feels bad man.
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
I don’t think that breakaways are too strong in this game.

They take all your defensive meter. That’s 10 seconds with no flawless block, no wakeups no cancels (for some characters). Not to mention that if they’re read, a d2 still does a sizeable potion of damage. The rate at which breaker regenerates is also quite slow. If you are finding your opponent has enough time to regenerate 3 breakers a round; you need to be more aggressive and press your advantage when your opponent is out of defensive meter.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
You can repeat the same wrong argument as much as you want. Still doesn't make it anymore than your personal feelings.

As far as the above scenario goes, I sure do hate having to take Liu Kang's guessing game cause he read my breakaway. Feels bad man.
You still take more damage no matter what if you didn't breakaway and got opened up again or even thrown.
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
You still take more damage no matter what if you didn't breakaway and got opened up again or even thrown.
But it’s significantly harder to open someone up because they can flawless block reversal; wake up attack, wakeup roll.

You take away their defensive options and force them to block. It becomes much easier to open them up.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
But it’s significantly harder to open someone up because they can flawless block reversal; wake up attack, wakeup roll.

You take away their defensive options and force them to block. It becomes much easier to open them up.
This is patently false. I can make a video to demonstrate it. Most characters in this game have a combo ending knockdown that allows you to simply stand still where both wakeups whiff and forward roll is jab reactable. 3 of the 4 wakeup options are completely reactable, it's just up to you to apply the offense to bait it.
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
This is patently false. I can make a video to demonstrate it. Most characters in this game have a combo ending knockdown that allows you to simply stand still where both wakeups whiff and forward roll is jab reactable. 3 of the 4 wakeup options are completely reactable, it's just up to you to apply the offense to bait it.
If you’re waiting to react to those wakeup options the opponent can wakeup buttons and begin their own pressure.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
If you’re waiting to react to those wakeup options the opponent can wakeup buttons and begin their own pressure.
Nope. It's a completely reactable situation for you. If they do nothing, you can simply back off and return to neutral. This is like, the entire basis of Baraka's gameplan almost. You just gotta learn the timing and rehearse it in practice ad nauseum.
 
I would 100% agree with you if breakaway wasn't almost always on the table during a match and didn't make the defensive scenario for the opponent more predictable for them thus making it harder to even open them back up. Kabal gets SUPER fucked by Breakaway because all he can do is throw, which resets neutral, or TRY to stagger pressure you and he loses his turn quite easily. When he finally gets the punish, there is nothing he can do that's scary enough to make you panic. This is how I play the game, this is how a lot of top players approach the game. It's better to take the easier to deal with defense scenario than use the threat (or lack of threat) of the wakeup system.
Unless this throw Kabal does instantly refills the opponent's defensive meter then no, it does not reset neutral. Neutral encompasses many things including meter.

In my opinion, a game that is neutral heavy should not have someone lose all advantage off a single mistake, having to eat a 30%+ combo as a result.

Advantage should be moving bar that sways out of your favor the more and more mistakes you make. You get knocked down, you use meter to wakeup but couldn't convert it to anything, and then you get opened up. A series of mistakes has been made and now you have to eat the full combo as a result.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Nope. It's a completely reactable situation for you. If they do nothing, you can simply back off and return to neutral. This is like, the entire basis of Baraka's gameplan almost. You just gotta learn the timing and rehearse it in practice ad nauseum.
Imo you getting off the ground without spending getting any resources or being pressured and being able to go play your game again is also a win for you. If your opponent is sitting there doing nothing, then no sweat for you.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
Unless this throw Kabal does instantly refills the opponent's defensive meter then no, it does not reset neutral. Neutral encompasses many things including meter.

In my opinion, a game that is neutral heavy should not have someone lose all advantage off a single mistake, having to eat a 30%+ combo as a result.

Advantage should be moving bar that sways out of your favor the more and more mistakes you make. You get knocked down, you use meter to wakeup but couldn't convert it to anything, and then you get opened up. A series of mistakes has been made and now you have to eat the full combo as a result.
"In my opinion, a game that is neutral heavy should not have someone lose all advantage off a single mistake, having to eat a 30%+ combo as a result."

This is the craziest thing I've seen. It's hard to open people up in this game. This is EXACTLY what people mean when they say they want a neutral heavy game. You're literally asking for people to be able to opt out of fuck ups. I don't get the point of that.