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The November Patch- What Does it Mean For Swamp Thing?

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Moderator
Hello everyone! So the patch is on its way for PS4 (Xbox has it currently) and obviously I have to do this because you know I do. We got some great buffs to let's list them and then go into them one by one, in depth. (these are only the changes listed in the Patch Stream, anything in patch notes will be added later.)

CHANGES

- After doing BF3, you can hold 3 to extend the range GREATLY in exchange for making it punishable.
- While in the garden, DB2 and Standing 3 gains a hit of armor.
- DB1 (Log Kick) is now -4 on block (SAFE!) and decreased recovery time.

So these are pretty damn good changes but let's go into depth.

BF3 Change
This change will allow Swamp Thing to get in on zoning easier since the startup of this move goes under highs and some mid projectiles. This is also great for keeping zoners in check when they knock you down (BF3 has slight invincibility on wakeup so you can blast through a projectile and low profile others then bop the zoner) so in general, this helps tremendously in his zoning MUs.


Garden Change
This is going to make his oki really scary, especially in the corner. Being able to meaty with a +6 on block armored launcher means they can't wakeup, and your pressure continues. He is making you guess and i have the feeling it's about to get down right oppressive in the corner. Not to mention the poking meta in the corner gets stupid considering if you block a D1, he can still just armor through and bully you. This kind of stuff on a grappler is very strong (see Bane). Also add in the fact that there are strings into trait on block that are safe so you have that mind game too! String xx Trait into armor/no armor. This mountain certainly, is not moving.


Log Change
This one is the one that people flipped out about the most. "Omg he has safe mix!" and yea, he does. And that is GREAT! Log kick being -4 means it might honestly be a better bet to cancel into this on block instead of BF3 considering it's only 1 frame more negative, does more chip (therefor more meter build) will catch people not blocking low AND is a hard knockdown right in their face. This in addition to the reduced recovery also makes the frame data on block better when block from further away (could very well be plus on block when blocked at max distance!)


So as far as the Swamp Thing specific buffs, this patch was very kind to the green but we're not even done yet! In addition to this, our worse matchups got hit with nerfs! So let's talk about that.


Deadshot
Straight shot completely controlled the pace of this match and was a large part of why he won it. With it being dramatically slowed down AND his meter build being lower, Swamp Thing has more breathing room. Not to mention that plus the buff to BF3, and his preexisting tools to deal with zoning, this matchup will become so much more doable for us. He might still beat Swamp Thing but Deadshot is definitely no longer an instant win button against the green.


Batman
Batman also getting hit with a meterbuild nerf is big for us, making the meter deficit MUCH smaller when playing. And not to mention the nerf to trait bat frequency means that when we get in, we are IN and when we are in we have better buttons and not to mention bullying with armor. This matchup might still be hard but it is MUCH less hard. We also can AA him a bit easier, woot!


Red Hood
Once more, he is building less meter in zoning which is great for us but his mines and his MB lunge also do less chip and less damage. This was a huge part of his gameplan and it's been hit pretty hard, it was a big part of his damage. Since this is doing less, our healing is much better because it creates more health for him to have to get through. Pre-patch we had a pretty decent answer to Red Hood placing landmines because on a read we could DB3 and punish but now with the buff to BF3, we have a very high reward way to deal with it at certain ranges. This makes Red Hood question himself more. We also have a good way to punish whiffed air shots (and MAYBE blocked air shots, I have to test that) with that BF3 buff. Lunge and the oki situation will still give us some issues in the neutral and in the corner respectively but the matchup definitely will be easier on us.


Catwoman
What a joke. "Walkspeed nerfed slightly" yea that was her issue. Anyway this still helps us a bit. Since her walk speed is slower we can actually play a slower game which is what we want to do. We still have no answer for J2, we still get screwed by low profiling and barely negative staggers. However the garden buff should help a bit since we can garden in the neutral and threaten armor when in the garden. Still going to be rough, this is definitely our worst MU now along with Supes.


Let me know what you guys think! Please discuss below, peace.

OFFICIAL NOTES

Swamp Thing - Refoliation & Trunk Punch (Hard) now have armor when executed while Swamp Thing is standing in Abigail's Garden Character Power

•Swamp Thing - Refoliation startup is now 16 frames (down from 17), active frames increased to 8 frames (up from 4), 7 less miss recovery frames, 3 less hit / block recovery frames

•Swamp Thing - Refoliation Meter Burn startup is now 5 frames (down from 12) and has 1 more hit recovery frame

•Swamp Thing - Log Kick startup is now 20 frames (down from 22) and has 10 less miss / block recovery frames

•Swamp Thing - Bayou Bash can now be held to increased its range, when then results in longer recovery on block /miss depending on held time up to an additional 7 frames
 
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D. R.

Noob
Just need someone with the patch on Xbox as well as time and I can tell them everything they need to test to see if he's actually legit or not. Examples of things to test:

• Does Log Kick still whiff against floating opponents in the corner on block
• With the opponent and Swamp Thing in trait, when Swamp Thing does GT(1) restand and mashes s3, does it beat 6 frame d1s.
• Does f3 have plus frames on block
• Any frame or hitbox changes in general
• When Swamp Thing is in trait, does armor proc on db2 when used as an AA. (This is huge)
• How active is the armor on db2 and s3 when in trait

I could go on and on but I guess these are pressing to me.
 

D. R.

Noob
I certainly like what im seeing. He's not all of a sudden going to be dominating top 8s or whatever, but he has some great great stuff in those changes, the log in particular I absolutely love.
If the armor procs immediately on s3 while in trait then Swamp Thing is going to have one of the best corners in the game. Push blocking out is going to be the opponents only option.
 

D. R.

Noob
@CrazyFingers add this to your post

  • Swamp Thing - Refoliation & Trunk Punch (Hard) now have armor when executed while Swamp Thing is standing in Abigail's Garden Character Power
  • Swamp Thing - Refoliation startup is now 16 frames (down from 17), active frames increased to 8 frames (up from 4), 7 less miss recovery frames, 3 less hit / block recovery frames
  • Swamp Thing - Refoliation Meter Burn startup is now 5 frames (down from 12) and has 1 more hit recovery frame
  • Swamp Thing - Log Kick startup is now 20 frames (down from 22) and has 10 less miss / block recovery frames
  • Swamp Thing - Bayou Bash can now be held to increased its range, when then results in longer recovery on block /miss depending on held time up to an additional 7 frames
 

Wavy

Block Spammer
Used grodds 6f d1 and swamp's s3 immediately armored after thumb, 1 (in trait of course)
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Premium Supporter
Xbox users, Do u actually have to be standing in the trait for armor to work of db2/3?
or is it like the vine grab armor on trades while as long as the trait is out doesn't matter if swamp thing standing in it or not
 

Wavy

Block Spammer
Xbox users, Do u actually have to be standing in the trait for armor to work of db2/3?
or is it like the vine grab armor on trades while as long as the trait is out doesn't matter if swamp thing standing in it or not
Yes you have to be standing in trait for the armor to work. Vine grab armor still works outside of trait.
 
I feel like these buffs help swamp thing quite a bit and he is actually viable as a main now. The db2 does armor through air attacks when used in trait which is awesome, and just about everything swamp thing does is safe on block now. I would love to see a player like biohazard use him exclusively and see what happens.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
its true, tentacle strike is unsafe everywhere except completely fullscreen, Aquaman gets outranged by swampy's f2 string. add safe 50/50's now to that and its even worse. and then on top of that, aquaman's wake ups arent the greatest, but now if he's cornered he legitmately can't do a damned thing while trait is up. Wtf bruh -_-


i still don't get why they havent given aquaman something this patch. like at least give him slightly better numbers on some of his moves. like maybe having tentacle strike NOT be -24? ugh
 
Repost from the general thread:

I did some testing on the new BF3's frame data on block. The non-meterburn maximum hold version & all meterburn versions regardless of hold length can be punished by 10f startup moves but not by 11f (like Darkseid knee).

Also, meterburn BF3 max hold goes slightly farther slightly faster than non-meterburn BF3. For example, from full screen, both meterburn & non-meterburn max BF3 can go under 2 of 3 of Fate's MB DF1 fireball, but it's super easy for meterburn BF3 & too difficult to be practical for non-meterburn.