What's new

The lack of new tech found and information about this game is killing me slowly.

Wetdoba

All too easy...
anyone who says the tech hasn't been discovered, "the game is only 3 months old," or similar things are honestly inexperienced at picking up fighting games, then. i had to quit the game after around 1-2 weeks of playing it (and trying hard to like it,) because i had already figured out what the entirety of the gameplay rotated about and the (very limited) extent of tech that existed. my day1 sonya and geras combos are still the optimal ones people use which is disgusting to me.

they tried to make mk play more "fundamental" but it's still just as fraudulent as nrs games have ever been. coinflips are constantly forced. your opponent blocked your poke and you're minus? time to guess if you neutral duck to avoid a throw mixup or stand block to avoid the mid. and that embodies pretty much every "mixup" gameplay for all characters in the game. you get a knockdown? too bad, there are no safejumps in this game - enjoy another coinflip. blocked a scorpion teleport? guess what, even your punish is a coinflip (as if the teleport itself wasn't enough of a neutral coinflip anyways.)

the only thing beyond that people could practice (outside of playing MUs, but the gameplans are fairly bland so MUs aren't really that diverse anyways and the game is too limited to offer any really specific options) are perfect blocks and their 1f links in order to properly jail into highs. but having to practice 1f links in order to not be scrubbed out by d1s on your turn is also disgusting - people have been complaining about the 5-10% of characters in sf4 that required 1f links for their OPTIMAL bnbs (and even had lower damage alternatives.) now imagine if they had to do that in order to not just get mashed out, the criticisms would've been immense.

if someone suddenly forced everyone in basketball to flip a coin every 3rd seconds to see if the ball changes hands, you don't gotta do that coinflip 300 times to accurately assess that it's stupid. nrs in general do not understand fighting games well and their games generally suffer from this kind of fraudulent design - but they usually at least have crazy decisions so chars can do some funny stuff and training mode in mkx was fun as a result. while not serious, at least it was a very fun game. so when they try to make a "legit" fighter with their level of understanding this is what we actually get and it honestly just confirms those suspicions i've had all along (i've touted their incompetence when it comes to understanding 'legitimate' fg gameplay ever since mkx.)
There absolutely are safe jumps in this game lol
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
It seems like this site does not even know what tech is anymore. Custom variation combos are not tech. Yes customs open up more possibikities for tech but just using 2 customs moves together is not tech lol. I just found a universal option select the other day with multiple uses but Im hesitant to even share it with this ungrateful crying ass site at this point. If you think theres no tech left to be found then you dont know how to look for it
 
Having run cancels and more juggles doesnt = more tech. Theres lots of wakeup options in this game so any kind of oki tech that defeats multiple wu options is really useful. Also as the nature of mk11 and staggers being so prevelant means fuzzy gaurding and option selects are also well to be desired. But does anyone post anything about this kind of stuff? Not really, people are all about "lets hop on that hate on mk11 for lack of yolo into this combo i spent 4 hours and a couple bong rips labbing bandwagon"
You're totally right. Most of those bashing MK11 right now think having flashy combos make a good fighting game but that's far from being the case. MK11 is different from MKX, and that's a good thing if you ask me. It has its flaws, sure, but I think that overall, it's a much better game than its predecessor.
 
There absolutely are safe jumps in this game lol
if you make a statement like that, at least be kind enough to provide a link to showcase this.

this is because if you mean stuff like this:

then those are not 'safejumps' even though it's an anti-wakeup setup and it involves being airborne. the reason it's not technically a safejump is because the airborne normal doesn't hit as a meaty on the opponent's wakeup while still allowing you to land in time to block any reversal, which is the definition of one. what's showcased in the video there doesn't even have an active airborne normal, so it's actually an empty jump/hop. imo this is a big distinction because there's a drastic difference in simply a defensive OS that allows you to break reversals but doesn't let you hit meaty vs. one that does, because the latter gives you guaranteed safe pressure which is not the case for this.

however, if you can show me an example of the latter existing, then i will happily retract my statement, but i'm almost certain the frames do not allow it outside of things like skarlet re-trance (which would be a reset, not a safejump on oki.)
 
Last edited:

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
anyone who says the tech hasn't been discovered, "the game is only 3 months old," or similar things are honestly inexperienced at picking up fighting games, then. i had to quit the game after around 1-2 weeks of playing it (and trying hard to like it,) because i had already figured out what the entirety of the gameplay rotated about and the (very limited) extent of tech that existed. my day1 sonya and geras combos are still the optimal ones people use which is disgusting to me.

they tried to make mk play more "fundamental" but it's still just as fraudulent as nrs games have ever been. coinflips are constantly forced. your opponent blocked your poke and you're minus? time to guess if you neutral duck to avoid a throw mixup or stand block to avoid the mid. and that embodies pretty much every "mixup" gameplay for all characters in the game. you get a knockdown? too bad, there are no safejumps in this game - enjoy another coinflip. blocked a scorpion teleport? guess what, even your punish is a coinflip (as if the teleport itself wasn't enough of a neutral coinflip anyways.)

the only thing beyond that people could practice (outside of playing MUs, but the gameplans are fairly bland so MUs aren't really that diverse anyways and the game is too limited to offer any really specific options) are perfect blocks and their 1f links in order to properly jail into highs. but having to practice 1f links in order to not be scrubbed out by d1s on your turn is also disgusting - people have been complaining about the 5-10% of characters in sf4 that required 1f links for their OPTIMAL bnbs (and even had lower damage alternatives.) now imagine if they had to do that in order to not just get mashed out, the criticisms would've been immense.

if someone suddenly forced everyone in basketball to flip a coin every 3rd seconds to see if the ball changes hands, you don't gotta do that coinflip 300 times to accurately assess that it's stupid. nrs in general do not understand fighting games well and their games generally suffer from this kind of fraudulent design - but they usually at least have crazy decisions so chars can do some funny stuff and training mode in mkx was fun as a result. while not serious, at least it was a very fun game. so when they try to make a "legit" fighter with their level of understanding this is what we actually get and it honestly just confirms those suspicions i've had all along (i've touted their incompetence when it comes to understanding 'legitimate' fg gameplay ever since mkx.)
The hypocrisy of this post is stunning.

The first major point is that every major fighting game involves a high amount of guessing. You mean to tell me that Marvel 3, SF4, Smash, DBFZ etc. don’t have a high amount of guessing in close situations? The option selects, throw reads, ledge shenanigans, mixups etc?

You’d be the guy in Smash complaining that you can’t get back from off the ledge for free and might have to guess/make a read coming back. Or the guy complaining that you can’t just guard somebody off the ledge for free, because they might actually hit you on their way back in.

Newsflash: fighting games involve a ton of prediction. They involve tons of situations where there’s no ‘right’ answer every time, and you need to read what your opponent will do. Strike or throw? Move or block? Dash or jump? Walk forward or back? Pressure on wakeup or block? It’s been this way since SF2, and the dirt in most of these games is far worse than “I might get thrown if I’m blocking”.

Saying “omg I can’t just jump in for free on wakeup all the time on autopilot, game must be broke” is borderline silly. No one decides what the ‘one true formula’ is for a fighting game, and each game is free do do things differently. Force a breakaway and then do what you want.

The entire point of MK11 was to get back to fundamentals. And since you’d rather just keep heaping tech on people to open them up, rather than spacing them out better, making better reads, and in general being a smarter player (none of which requires new BnBs), you find it boring.

The game doesn’t have to be for everybody, but the true reward in MK11 is learning to better understand your opponents and how they think and move. And disciplining yourself to apply simple fundamentals on a higher and higher level each day. By taking away some of the ‘extra’ it’s meant to focus you on what matters most in fundamental play, and that’s the joy of it.
 
Last edited:

SixPathsOfHate

Make triple skulls input BDF or DF Hold F
The hypocrisy of this post is stunning.

The first major point is that every major fighting game involves a high amount of guessing. You mean to tell me that Marvel 3, SF4, Smash, DBFZ etc. don’t have a high amount of guessing in close situations? The option selects, throw reads, ledge shenanigans, mixups etc?

You’d be the guy in Smash complaining that you can’t get back from off the ledge for free and might have to guess/make a read coming back. Or the guy complaining that you can’t just guard somebody off the ledge for free, because they might actually hit you on their way back in.

Newsflash: fighting games involve a ton of prediction. They involve tons of situations where there’s no ‘right’ answer every time, and you need to read what your opponent will do. Strike or throw? Move or block? Dash or jump? Walk forward or back? Pressure on wakeup or block? It’s been this way since SF2, and the dirt in most of these games is far worse than “I might get thrown if I’m blocking”.

Saying “omg I can’t just jump in for free on wakeup all the time on autopilot, game must be broke” is borderline silly. No one decides what the ‘one true formula’ is for a fighting game, and each game is free do do things differently. Force a breakaway and then do what you want.

The entire point of MK11 was to get back to fundamentals. And since you’d rather just keep heaping tech on people to open them up, rather than spacing them out better, making better reads, and in general being a smarter player (none of which requires new BnBs), you find it boring.

The game doesn’t have to be for everybody, but the true reward in MK11 is learning to better understand your opponents and how they think and move. And disciplining yourself to apply simple fundamentals on a higher and higher level each day. By taking away some of the ‘extra’ it’s meant to focus you on what matters most in fundamental play, and that’s the joy of it.
The issue with this is once you have your fundamentals down to a solid enough level where you can win consistently against people of a similar skill level to you or at least make the right reads and be able to apply the gameplan then thats when you start looking for ways to capitalize and diverse yourself from others in terms of playstyle. This is where the game fails as there is no room for diverse playstyle or skill expression outside of reading the opponent correctly. There is no "swag" in this game outside of few things because the way the game was built.

When I played Shinnok I would go no variation and test myself to see how far I would get before losing or as imposter I would do the stylish combos when I landed hits because I was expressing my skill level by doing the difficult, offline combos by doing them online. My understanding of fundamentals was already there since I was getting hits in and opening them up.

In Injustice 2 I played Brainiac and the similar thing can be said. I would open them up with my understanding of the fundamentals then apply my personal way of playing with doing tech I created in the lab. There was a reason to keep playing because there was so much to explore once you got fundamentals down enough to where you are making consistent reads and such. I would spend hours in the lab thinking of different ways to strengthen my lead once I got in. This game has barely any of that. I spent 5 hours in training mode with Kollector and took my findings and put them on discord/twitter/TYM and to my surprise, many other people had similar "tech" and so I went back and tried to find more to realize most of it was just straight up not useful because he had shit frame data or some of the moves required are behind custom variations. They didnt give me much to work with looking for Kollector tech. Even now there has been VERY VERY little found for either variation because the game and the character are just so bare bones and it makes it hard for me to keep playing when I can express my personal skill expression and how I play the game outside of neutral.

I understand the game is meant to be basic and "fundamentals" based but I dont see how they didnt realize that this would damage the game so much? It made everything much more black and white. There is no "love" in this game. It honestly feels like this game was made to cater to the people whining about how weird and unorthodox MK was and that they wanted to show everybody that they could conform and be "mature" like other fighting games. You can even see it with the way the game's language and messages are. MKX never censored words or gave a fuck for that matter about anything other than having tons of fun and it was a blast to play. Similar to MK9 with their big titty ninjas. It was all just wild and more importantly FUN. You know a MK game is bad when they take themselves too seriously which is clearly seen here.
 
The hypocrisy of this post is stunning.

The first major point is that every major fighting game involves a high amount of guessing. You mean to tell me that Marvel 3, SF4, Smash, DBFZ etc. don’t have a high amount of guessing in close situations? The option selects, throw reads, ledge shenanigans, mixups etc?

You’d be the guy in Smash complaining that you can’t get back from off the ledge for free and might have to guess/make a read coming back. Or the guy complaining that you can’t just guard somebody off the ledge for free, because they might actually hit you on their way back in.

Newsflash: fighting games involve a ton of prediction. They involve tons of situations where there’s no ‘right’ answer every time, and you need to read what your opponent will do. Strike or throw? Move or block? Dash or jump? Walk forward or back? Pressure on wakeup or block? It’s been this way since SF2, and the dirt in most of these games is far worse than “I might get thrown if I’m blocking”.

Saying “omg I can’t just jump in for free on wakeup all the time on autopilot, game must be broke” is borderline silly. No one decides what the ‘one true formula’ is for a fighting game, and each game is free do do things differently. Force a breakaway and then do what you want.

The entire point of MK11 was to get back to fundamentals. And since you’d rather just keep heaping tech on people to open them up, rather than spacing them out better, making better reads, and in general being a smarter player (none of which requires new BnBs), you find it boring.

The game doesn’t have to be for everybody, but the true reward in MK11 is learning to better understand your opponents and how they think and move. And disciplining yourself to apply simple fundamentals on a higher and higher level each day. By taking away some of the ‘extra’ it’s meant to focus you on what matters most in fundamental play, and that’s the joy of it.
All of them involve guesswork. However, a large amount of those games allow 'good players' to eliminate a lot more of the chance-game through their gameplay. A big difference is many chance elements are actually unfavorable to use if reacted to properly in these games (but not true for NRS games.)

See Killer Instinct, a game notoriously disliked for its "RNG" components, yet it still has way less guesswork at a high level than any NRS game does. Combo breakers in KI are hated because people say "you can just guess out of a combo," and completely disregard the nuances forced at a higher level. If people genuinely 'guess' combos, they only actually have 1/3rd raw chance of doing so, and there are many ways to mess up timings and juggles to make this even more difficult (or even counterbreaker if you're exceptionally confident.)

All these components together make it very unfavorable to consistently guess, and statistically speaking it will not work out.

NRS games rarely, if ever, possess these nuances. This is how a proper 'guesswork' system is done with the ability to play around it at a higher level (a big part of being a 'good player' in 2d fgs is managing your risk/reward decisions, which you are not adequately allowed to do in NRS games.)

Honestly, your understanding of fighters seem very rudimentary when you're pulling this "all games have guesswork" defense because it's a binary simplification.

Take SF4 as an example since you used that. Any time someone blocks your move at close range in SF4, you are not automatically put in a mixup situation. You have access to safer defensive answers (backdash, focus backdash, DP FADC, various EX move, delay tech OS) that lets you bypass high-chance guesswork and rarely gets fiercely punished outside of a very hard read.

In MK11, any time your opponent blocks your move at close range, you have to guess. You don't have invincible backdashes to force them to just light strings (that heavily scale damage or don't allow you proper combos, depending) into lk+hk to OS sweep in order to catch your backdash, like you could in SF4. or if you recognize that they use this OS to catch your backdash, you can focus backdash to avoid it. You can't react to the throw tech like in tekken, you can't properly delay tech OS like in sf4 (which is vulnerable to frame traps, so it all adds into the mindgames.) The options just aren't there to bypass this guessing game for NRS games, while it exists in most other proper fighting games (which you seem to completely ignore, or you're unaware of it. either one is bad.)

This is why I say your understanding of fighters has to be rudimentary because you completely overlook this part which exists in many, many fighters, but not NRS games. It's not just "chance exists everywhere" it's about "how integral/prevalent is chance in the gameplay." In these games, these guesswork situations have way bigger impact on the outcome of a match than in most other fgs.

you tell me I complain but the reason I complain is because I've played many, many different fighting games. unlike you, I'm not a player of a particular franchise, which is why i'm objective and you get sad when i call out this franchise specifically for being exceptionally scrub-friendly. sf4, guilty gear, kof, killer instinct and tekken 7 do not suffer from the same issues at all. DBFZ and SFV, however, do. This is because similar to NRS games, they are oversimplified and in return this lowers the amount of options players are left with, and increases the impact of each chance decision.
 
Last edited:

DeftMonk

Noob
All of them involve guesswork. However, a large amount of those games allow 'good players' to eliminate a lot more of the chance-game through their gameplay. A big difference is many chance elements are actually unfavorable to use if reacted to properly in these games (but not true for NRS games.)

See Killer Instinct, a game notoriously disliked for its "RNG" components, yet it still has way less guesswork at a high level than any NRS game does. Combo breakers in KI are hated because people say "you can just guess out of a combo," and completely disregard the nuances forced at a higher level. If people genuinely 'guess' combos, they only actually have 1/3rd raw chance of doing so, and there are many ways to mess up timings and juggles to make this even more difficult (or even counterbreaker if you're exceptionally confident.)

All these components together make it very unfavorable to consistently guess, and statistically speaking it will not work out.

NRS games rarely, if ever, possess these nuances. This is how a proper 'guesswork' system is done with the ability to play around it at a higher level (a big part of being a 'good player' in 2d fgs is managing your risk/reward decisions, which you are not adequately allowed to do in NRS games.)

Honestly, your understanding of fighters seem very rudimentary when you're pulling this "all games have guesswork" defense because it's a binary simplification.

Take SF4 as an example since you used that. Any time someone blocks your move at close range in SF4, you are not automatically put in a mixup situation. You have access to safer defensive answers (backdash, focus backdash, DP FADC, various EX move, delay tech OS) that lets you bypass high-chance guesswork and rarely gets fiercely punished outside of a very hard read.

In MK11, any time your opponent blocks your move at close range, you have to guess. You don't have invincible backdashes to force them to just light strings (that heavily scale damage or don't allow you proper combos, depending) into lk+hk to OS sweep in order to catch your backdash, like you could in SF4. or if you recognize that they use this OS to catch your backdash, you can focus backdash to avoid it. You can't react to the throw tech like in tekken, you can't properly delay tech OS like in sf4 (which is vulnerable to frame traps, so it all adds into the mindgames.) The options just aren't there to bypass this guessing game for NRS games, while it exists in most other proper fighting games (which you seem to completely ignore, or you're unaware of it. either one is bad.)

This is why I say your understanding of fighters has to be rudimentary because you completely overlook this part which exists in many, many fighters, but not NRS games. It's not just "chance exists everywhere" it's about "how integral/prevalent is chance in the gameplay." In these games, these guesswork situations have way bigger impact on the outcome of a match than in most other fgs.

you tell me I complain but the reason I complain is because I've played many, many different fighting games. unlike you, I'm not a player of a particular franchise, which is why i'm objective and you get sad when i call out this franchise specifically for being exceptionally scrub-friendly. sf4, guilty gear, kof, killer instinct and tekken 7 do not suffer from the same issues at all. DBFZ and SFV, however, do. This is because similar to NRS games, they are oversimplified and in return this lowers the amount of options players are left with, and increases the impact of each chance decision.
I totally understand what your getting at but while the tech window in this game isnt as huge as tekken it is still reactable (maybe less so online with subpar connections thats for sure). SF4 was an amazing game but the skill ceiling to be honest was at something we can never expect from NRS. Anyone who says otherwise has no idea what they are talking about.