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The Future of Noob Saibot.

RyuKazuya

Jesus is my Lord and Savior!
Some of his moves have no hurtbox attached to them b1 being one of them. I think it should be unsafe for that matter.
 

Sanjo

Noob
I honestly think that people are giving up on noob way too soon. But it seems like a constant in MK11 as peolpe expect all characters to play similar, thus assuming that this or that character is weak. I think that noob is in a good spot right now and I really enjoy playing the character. But if he end up getting buffs, why not. The only changes I would make would be changing his krushing blow conditions for shadow tackle (10 is too much. 6 seems fair.) and b3, 1+4. And seriously, why would anyone amplify shadow tackle?? I don't get it.
 

Dante

Noob
And seriously, why would anyone amplify shadow tackle?? I don't get it.
To get kb lol.
But seriously noob can never be good at the higher lvls with no mids. Play vs any good liu kang and feel the despair. You can't expect d3/d4 into highs to work forever
 
ive found several legit ways to land the hop punch, one of which is sacrificing big combo damage with a sweep ender but because its hop punch\b3 KB (or b3 into teleport if you wanna get nuts) so giving them a reason to block standing is huge. also jump in punch directly into hop punch is great unless they poke in between
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
To get kb lol.
But seriously noob can never be good at the higher lvls with no mids. Play vs any good liu kang and feel the despair. You can't expect d3/d4 into highs to work forever
b1 is a 9 frame mid if i'm not mistaken.

I don't even use d1 much anymore. I just use d3 and b1 or just walk away after a blocked poke.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Some of his moves have no hurtbox attached to them b1 being one of them. I think it should be unsafe for that matter.
That string is unsafe.

b1 does have a hurtbox... the shadow doesn't. It is Noobs "thing". To be able to reach far without actually putting his hurtbox out there. Both moves that do this are very unsafe and can be punished by most of the characters.
 

Sanjo

Noob
B11+3 punishable is what I'm saying. That and the fact that you lose your turn with every move there is
I use B11+3 as a whiff punish tool most of the time. Against characters that can't punish it, I also use it after I've blocked a D1 (it works a lot). Against characters that can punish it, I just use B1 and build my offense from there.
 
Online I mainly use B1 1+3 as a punish because of the KB and poke poke smashers. But i'm wondering if an upclose B1 is -5, then if I do B1 at its max range is it still -5?
 

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
I honestly think that people are giving up on noob way too soon. But it seems like a constant in MK11 as peolpe expect all characters to play similar, thus assuming that this or that character is weak. I think that noob is in a good spot right now and I really enjoy playing the character. But if he end up getting buffs, why not. The only changes I would make would be changing his krushing blow conditions for shadow tackle (10 is too much. 6 seems fair.) and b3, 1+4. And seriously, why would anyone amplify shadow tackle?? I don't get it.
I have begun to amplify shadow attack to close out my combos and get that extra little 2-3% boost. The way Noob is (for me at least), if I'm able to open up someone for an optimal, and have 2 bars to spend, I'm using both bc by the time I open up the opponent again, I'll likely have my two bars back.

If we get the Shadow tackle fixed like not disappearing in trades and flying right over MF'ers (like sub zero's stupid slide) that alone is gonna change things up.

I get so pissed off watching replays and Noob's entire shadow body goes right through Sub Zero's slide and I still get hit. It's like I'm reading his shit but still getting blown up.
 

Sanjo

Noob
The problem is that people expect noob to be good at all ranges. You can't expect him to be a pressure monster. He is an excellent whiff punisher, a good zoner, a great footsie character and has IMO one of the best shimmy tool in the game with B1 and it's retracted hurtbox (And yes, you can confirm it into 1+3 in that scenario).
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
B11+3 punishable is what I'm saying. That and the fact that you lose your turn with every move there is
So you basically rely on fraudulent setups :p
Until someone proves they can punish the move... it isn't fraudulent.

Until the handful of characters PROVE they can... then you just rely of b1 and shimmy and force people into that area where you can whiff punish with b3, or catch them with the 1+3 part of the b1 string.

He has to earn his buttons, because when they land he takes 350 damage or more.

b1 alone is a tool that you can not hit confirm... step backward and basically punish someone for "thinking" they can poke again. On block or hit. This is instant KB or full combo punish.

If you want to push buttons all the time, this isn't your guy.
 
Until someone proves they can punish the move... it isn't fraudulent.

Until the handful of characters PROVE they can... then you just rely of b1 and shimmy and force people into that area where you can whiff punish with b3, or catch them with the 1+3 part of the b1 string.

He has to earn his buttons, because when they land he takes 350 damage or more.

b1 alone is a tool that you can not hit confirm... step backward and basically punish someone for "thinking" they can poke again. On block or hit. This is instant KB or full combo punish.

If you want to push buttons all the time, this isn't your guy.
True dat. Even if I fought really good people in the game I have yet to see them punish B1 1+3. I only fought one really good Scorp online who punished it with F3.
 

Dante

Noob
Are you for real now? You actually bank on ppl not playing correctly in such major ways like punishing b11+3 or pressing anything after b1 on block or 212 or f221? Yeah noob is very good if so.

There is zero sense in building your gameplay without game theory optimal in mind. So no you can't stagger with b1 you can't ever confirm it also, ppl will do various shit vs any of your blocked buttons. B11+3 is punishable and so is b3 ghostball. Also breakaway is a thing so no 40% when you finally land sth

What's actually great about noob? D1/d3/d4 and F22 and 212.
Also top tier anti airs in f3 and db4.

Another thing I read all the time is how noob is great at whiff punishing. How is he any better than let's say sub or scorp.

Again, it's not about beating ppl with yolo risky shit and wake up roll into fb kinda shit (that I always eat) or because they don't know you can press pretty much anything after all of his moves.
 

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
Are you for real now? You actually bank on ppl not playing correctly in such major ways like punishing b11+3 or pressing anything after b1 on block or 212 or f221? Yeah noob is very good if so.

There is zero sense in building your gameplay without game theory optimal in mind. So no you can't stagger with b1 you can't ever confirm it also, ppl will do various shit vs any of your blocked buttons. B11+3 is punishable and so is b3 ghostball. Also breakaway is a thing so no 40% when you finally land sth

What's actually great about noob? D1/d3/d4 and F22 and 212.
Also top tier anti airs in f3 and db4.

Another thing I read all the time is how noob is great at whiff punishing. How is he any better than let's say sub or scorp.

Again, it's not about beating ppl with yolo risky shit and wake up roll into fb kinda shit (that I always eat) or because they don't know you can press pretty much anything after all of his moves.
The issue with Noob as I see it (logged about 400-500 games with him) is that he IS bad ass at whiff punishing, he is a great counter character. But to exel with this type of character requires more knowledge of your opponent and the matchup than a superficial knowledge that would be good enough for other types of characters.
To exel you need to be very good at reactions, adjustment, and knowledge of your opponents range, punishable gaps, strings, etc.
It requires a bigger knowledge base to succeed with Noob than others, and it requires extreme patience bc the opponent knows this.

Most times I find myself gettin shit on with Noob against a character of comparable skill I realize it's bc I start pressing. I should prob switch mains bc it's clearly not my playstyle but it's still fun to use him so I'm sticking with him.
 

Sanjo

Noob
Are you for real now? You actually bank on ppl not playing correctly in such major ways like punishing b11+3 or pressing anything after b1 on block or 212 or f221? Yeah noob is very good if so.

There is zero sense in building your gameplay without game theory optimal in mind. So no you can't stagger with b1 you can't ever confirm it also, ppl will do various shit vs any of your blocked buttons. B11+3 is punishable and so is b3 ghostball. Also breakaway is a thing so no 40% when you finally land sth

What's actually great about noob? D1/d3/d4 and F22 and 212.
Also top tier anti airs in f3 and db4.

Another thing I read all the time is how noob is great at whiff punishing. How is he any better than let's say sub or scorp.

Again, it's not about beating ppl with yolo risky shit and wake up roll into fb kinda shit (that I always eat) or because they don't know you can press pretty much anything after all of his moves.
The first thing I learned when I took fighting games seriously is that if you can't make it work, don't assume that no one can. I'm a strong believer that this game his deeper than most people think and that characters are more complex too. It may be difficult for veteran MK players To see it because this game is a very different beast than its predecessors. Having strong mids is not everything. It comes to us to adapt and maximize our character's strenght and minimize it's weaknesses. This game is a jewel of balance IMO. There are a few things to adjust but it's overall pretty balanced and every character has a chance if played well.