"The Flash" General Discussion

Discussion in 'The Flash' started by D7X, May 15, 2017.

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  1. DeftMonk

    DeftMonk Noob

    Steam:
    djdeftmonk
    I saw this post and I tried to lab this but I can't get any sort of 50/50 as I can't get sonic pound to cross up no matter what distance I do? far whiffs regular sp doesn't cross up?
     
    #301
  2. TopTierBarry

    TopTierBarry Top tier player. Free'd up Knicks live on TYM
    Premium Supporter

    close doesn't cross, regular does. Input it immediately
     
    #302
    DeftMonk likes this.
  3. DeftMonk

    DeftMonk Noob

    Steam:
    djdeftmonk
    thanks ttb was inputting it few frames too slow I guess. Works fine now.
     
    #303
    TopTierBarry likes this.
  4. Killjoy McGee

    Killjoy McGee [Hype Intensifies]

    Anyone have tips for batman? Can't seem to do shut against him due to batarangs and block pressure
     
    #304
  5. DeftMonk

    DeftMonk Noob

    Steam:
    djdeftmonk
    pick deadshot.
     
    #305
  6. Batman requires you to find a good way to anti air him, he is going to be using j2 a lot so you have to make good use of d2 and sonic lift to turn the MU into your favor and take control in the fight. Once you get him knocked down, even once, his wakeups aren't that good (best options are parry, slide and up batarang, but all can be beat) and that means you can keep him in the corner and guessing for quite some time if you can make the right reads on his wakeups. Generally a mb f3 will work if he chooses to wake up with anything other than parry (sometimes he can slide out but if you time it right you should armor through the slide), parry can be beat by either a low starter or a jump starter, then you can go into a full combo and back into the oki setups.

    Always respect the mechanical bats, don't pressure or think you can poke while they're up, its how batmans get you most of the time I'd say. He is definitely a lot weaker without the bats up, as he can't connect as many of his strings as easily without the bats to provide extra hit stun. As well gotta learn his strings, he doesn't actually have much to make you guess, all of his strings are pretty straight forward and just require you to memorize them. Other than being able to cancel into slide (really unsafe on block) from different points in his strings, they don't offer much in the way of 50/50 so you should be able to stay composed and not get opened up, then it will come down to anti airing and controlling him on oki.
     
    #306
  7. SMH

    SMH That was Speedforce

    PSN:
    SMhero62
    ^
    Batman limits Flash in everything about any advantages there speech can not go. If you manage to constantly Batman, then it means that this is a bad Batman abusing a jump. A slide is not such a bad wakeap. Because having read it, for example, having NJP, Batman very far is rolled away and you trite can not have time to punish because of its backdash. On 6 frames d2 I'm silent, with the trait it is practically safe - 9.
    I play with Vladee7R and know what I'm talking about. 4-6 at best for Flash.
     
    #307
  8. Reading the slide, and always jumping it still is a bad read, it gives batman space he needs and gets him out of the corner. If you have in the corner and read he is going to wake up slide to get out, block and punish it, or mb f3 and hold it for the hit of armor and punish it.

    Batman has his advantages like I stated, but it doesn't change the fact that for the most part his strings are memorizable and that means him opening you up really should be hard for him. Learn when to poke through his pressure and where there are gaps. Other than that I maintain it will come down to controlling the air space around you, if you let him jump all over the place and constantly cross you up then Flash probably loses. If you take that away somewhat and can execute your own game plan on him (aka corner carry to 50/50 guessing game in the corner) you have a good chance. I agree with you that its slightly in batman's favor, but if you're conscious about getting the first hit in the match, and thus getting 1 free bar of meter, that can also help you keep pressure up and maintain a life lead.

    Its not easy for batman to just chunk out loads and loads of health, he is best at keeping you out and then using his tools to punish impatient play, but for the most part he doesn't explode out damage in a burst like Flash can. For this reason he can be beaten even when you are down on life because you have so much more potential damage, its all about execution and reads.

    I'll repeat this, his wakeup options are weak and for that reason if you understand that pressuring him on knockdowns is really strong you can do lots of damage there. If you are smart about using your trait and don't frivolously spend meter, you should be able to beat an equally skilled batman. Don't get flustered by his batarang pressure and utilize rms cancels to throw him off. Other than that best advice I can give is to practice against batman and learn his strings, they only go one direction and don't have much mixup potential, other than is j2 which will sometimes ambiguously cross up, he doesn't really have a way to make you guess without cancelling into slide (again really unsafe). It's because of this that I find it so important to establish that he can't just be j2ing around you for free all the time, if you don't find a way to punish him being in the air around you always looking for a crossup j2, then you will probably spend too much time blocking and thus it is just a matter of time before you get opened up.
     
    #308
  9. I'm just laying out how the mu plays for flash and giving tips for flash players about how i think about the mu. If you only want to complain about the tools he has vs the tools flash has, I highly recommend picking up another hero lol a lot lot lot of people play batman and will pick him against flash. Its not a matchup you can runaway from, nor is it one that is impossible to win...
     
    #309
  10. SMH

    SMH That was Speedforce

    PSN:
    SMhero62
    Bad wakeups do not make much of the weather due to his slide. nobody cancels up batarang.
    no matter how you prepare for his pressure, he always has something to beat your brain and eventually open. and mechanical bats punish absolutely everything. they are so good that they will punish -4 for b123 SG, it is checked.
    so he always has a meter, he can easily keep at a distance if necessary, and Flash needs a meter here like air.
    You say the right things, but they are good in theory, for practice it all breaks down. Again, I played a lot and did not have anybody.
    You can only win by reading absolutely all once dropping Batman and not letting go, but these are too ideal conditions.
     
    #310
  11. it will usually come down to him using the mechanical bats to make his unsafe strings safe, but he can only do this so much. Eventually he won't have bats and he will use an unsafe string, at that point in time you have to make it count. This is what I mean by learning and understanding the matchup, for flash to consistently win against a batman he has to have great execution and be smarter than him (aka one step ahead because of his reads). If they have equal execution and the batman player is making the reads and flash isn't, batman probably wins.

    We both agree batman has a sightly easier time in this MU so it will come down to patience and picking the right spots to get agressive for Flash to win, other than that you will need really good defense to stay in the fight and weather the storm.
     
    #311
  12. SMH

    SMH That was Speedforce

    PSN:
    SMhero62
    What has changed or not?
     
    #312
  13. tafka Djinn

    tafka Djinn One for three off the roof

    BF1 reset is gone. Other than that haven't noticed anything different.
     
    #313
    SMH and Brack1sh like this.
  14. SMH

    SMH That was Speedforce

    PSN:
    SMhero62
    Very sad that they did not improve neutral and 112/231 strings
     
    #314
  15. At least they didn't take away the 32 restands tho, I'm still able to use those and to be honest they're easier to pull off anyways. The bf1, when mastered, was looking to be nice tho. Pretty much a loopable vortex off of one starter, it definitely had to go...
     
    #315
  16. SMH

    SMH That was Speedforce

    PSN:
    SMhero62
    Yep, i'm waited bf1 restand nerfs too. But why not improving neutral and blockstrings? I do not understand, this is the only Flash problem.
     
    #316
  17. If they improved his only weaknesses he would be way too strong! He has a lot of strengths and once he gets his gameplan going he can get a lot of work done. Just got to learn solid fundamentals and proper spacing, other than that its going to come down to simply grinding out the MU's in the lab and online to find out what works for you. Flash has some of the best damage in the game, he has one of the best supers in the game, he can safely charge meter full screen on a lot of the cast, rms cancels give him so much mix, and his pressure off of knockdowns is crazy. If you buff the only problem he really has, aka finding a first hit, by improving his neutral too much it would seriously make him OP imo.

    He is in a good spot and the bf1 resets weren't something i even worked on too much so its not a big loss on my game, nor do i think many flash players utilized it all that much because the window for landing it was pretty tight and adding in online latency and its likely you just burned a bar to basically d2 lol
     
    #317
  18. Here's a video I made showcasing a lot of punishes, counters, and escapes against the entire cast. I wanted to make sure people thought it was useful before I put it in here and so far it's been well received. I hope everyone here finds something useful from it.
     
    #318
    CGAnarchy and Espio like this.
  19. Cursa

    Cursa Noob

    This so much. His up-close game is rivalled by very few characters, there's a reason he has a relatively weak neutral, even though it is still better than what some other characters have, and he does have answers to zoning in rms, although obviously not as easy to use as some other characters' solutions.
     
    #319
  20. CGAnarchy

    CGAnarchy Noob

    May I get the link to the discord chat please?
     
    #320
  21. What is the frame data like on the Flash's RMS cancels? Is he usually plus?
     
    #321
  22. CGAnarchy

    CGAnarchy Noob

    It only depends on what you do before the cancel. B22 into RMS cancel is +2.
     
    #322
    Paul the Octopus likes this.
  23. My God, the flash downplay in this thread is depressing.
     
    #323
    Kooron Nation likes this.
  24. Cursa

    Cursa Noob

    I think most know how good he is now, a lot of posts in this thread a kinda old, relatively so.
     
    #324
    Wigy likes this.
  25. Yeah I realize that now. But still, that character is top 10 and people can't admit it
     
    #325

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