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The EVO 2019 MK11 Hype, Salt and Discussion Thread!

It's that time of year.. It's that time of the day.. We're in there boyz, it's EVO 2019. Discuss the craziness of this weekend and everything that happens here!

LET'S GO!!

P.S. for reference, here is dat bracket: EVO 2019 MK11 Smash.gg Brackets

And the stream:
 
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Comments

The one ninjakilla does?
Not playing Geras, but gimme the string and i try to do it for you. :D

thlityoursloat, a lot of people:
Should i list them?
SonicFox had him very low
HoneyBee and Biohazard
PND Ketchup
Reo had him at 11 place in his tier list
Tweedy had him in 14th place
https://media.eventhubs.com/images/2019/07/19_tweedy01.jpg

This one?:
https://mk11.tierlist.gg/

Should i continue ?
And who is the ones who put Sub Zero in a high tier list so i can laugh on them ?

And yeah he have many flaws. His Low-Profiling Issues is just insanely bad. You can counter a lot of his move by crouch. Go check that thread:
His moves are relative slow and if pressure him he is going to eat it. The only thing you need to carry on him is his OH. And for that you have Lab. Yeah online su** because of wifi warriors, but let`s hope for f** ping filter.
To be fair sonicfox move subzero placement after combo breaker on his Twitter
 
This Geras gauntlet charge shenanigan stuff is absolutely ridiculous. Holy shit. Unbreakable, 1-bar 326 damage that leaves Geras plus to pressure immediately after; but can also be used to get an easy 43%+ if you wanna cash out.
How do you do this lol
 
I feel like both Scorpion and Sub-Zero belongs in different tiers online and offline
Offline u can react to sub’s OH and scorpion’s tele cancel with training, which make them pretty average characters, while in online u cant, which makes them good
 
So that's a no on the top 8, just like I thought.
I don’t get why you people continue to argue with people from the “git gud” culture, it leads to absolutely nothing but stupidity.

A lot of these people did the same with MKx and now it’s considered the “worse MK, for scrubs, ect”

It’s going to be no different when the next game comes out “do u remember the hit boxes in mk11? Dat game was turrible, you can’t win in
12, May b u shuld go bak 2 that skrub game 11.

On the other hand, these shills are right when they say you guys don’t like to lab, I see people complaining about the easy shit and it’s things you could discover pretty much during the match itself - 0 lab time.
 

The downplay is just ridiculous lol.

@downplayers Talking about what really matters, what matchups Sub and Scorp actually lose? What do they struggle to deal with?
Going to drop in and remind you all that SZ players did the same thing with grandmaster SZ in MKX. ;)
People are seriously underestimating how powerful having a launching 50/50 is, especially in this game, where there are characters who do not even launch, and in a game where very few characters have this mixup.
 
Watching the PL vs SonicFox match. D3 into spin only works if the d3 is blocked. Same with any d3/d1 into any special. The reason it only works if the poke is blocked is because on hit, the opponent wouldn’t be able to press anything anyway before you attacked them. There’s too much hit advantage so doing d3 into spin when the d3 hits will never work against anyone. However d3 into spin will work if d3 is blocked because they’re trying to take their turn after blocking d3.

I know most know this but the commentators didn’t seem to. Or they didn’t notice it at least
 
Damn DJT is probably the most hype player in the scene and we didn't get him on stream once. They didn't even stream him vs his own brother in WQF. Yet we got 200 Geras(although Emperor Rio's Infinite Warden was fun to watch) and EB matches and probably 5 hours of breaks.

WTF
As much as I love DJT.. I don't think people understand that 1000 player tournaments are not just like a bunch of people waiting around for you to choose a specific line of guys to make the stream station or not. The first priority is making sure things run relatively on time and people (some of whom are playing in multiple games) get their matches played on time.

Occasionally people even get asked if they want to wait for stream and they decline because they'd rather just get their match over with and move on. This is the stuff we don't see watching from home.

Yes this means that sometimes you see people you don't know as well on stream, instead of some guy you were waiting to see. But I think if you tried running a 1000 player bracket with a single stream you'd have a little more sympathy for what people go through.
 
yeah, I basically tuned out after he lost. I knew Dragon was no match, he was owned at the start and I suspect it would be a fast 3-0 and no reset. TekkenMaster was our only hope for a hype final.
I mean....in winners finals it went to game 5 and the final round. Didn’t exactly own him there. Dragon was one touch away from moving to GF on winners side.
 
As much as I love DJT.. I don't think people understand that 1000 player tournaments are not just like a bunch of people waiting around for you to choose a specific line of guys to make the stream station or not. The first priority is making sure things run relatively on time and people (some of whom are playing in multiple games) get their matches played on time.

Occasionally people even get asked if they want to wait for stream and they decline because they'd rather just get their match over with and move on. This is the stuff we don't see watching from home.

Yes this means that sometimes you see people you don't know as well on stream, instead of some guy you were waiting to see. But I think if you tried running a 1000 player bracket with a single stream you'd have a little more sympathy for what people go through.
Idk man, there were way too many streamed matches where both players were average at best (I know that sounds like an asshole thing to say, but it’s nothing perspnal). That’s fine, but when it’s taking place WHILE high profile matches are going on, I feel they need to take responsibility for it being a mistake. Like if it happened rarely, you can obviously attribute it to just being a massive 1,500+ tournament. But it happening often just seems like bad preparation/planning or whoever was in charge of getting players on stream wasn’t knowledgeable enough to know who all the names were. You aren’t going to see a well known player in every match, of course, but that wasn’t the issue.

But yeah, you are allowed to decline to play on stream during pools. I bet a lot of players probably did do that since playing on stream can really be a disadvantage for some players mentally.
 
To be fair he is not:
kcd117, then why Deoxys didnt play Sub, but instead is playing Geras? :D
Again no one answer me how many Sub Zero and Scorpion top 32 or even 64 they make in major tournaments ?
Its not like we don`t have great players that use this characters.
Can I go by this logic and say that Kano is better than Geras bc Bio is playing Kano and not Geras?

Maybe they just don’t fit some people’s gameplan?

This is not a decent parameter to measure how good characters really are dude. There have been games where strong as hell characters would have never placed if it wasn’t for one player (Pig in MK9 and IGAU with Kenshi and Zod, Scar and Tweedy in MKX with Sonya and Kenshi) or never placed at all (MMH in IGAU).

I’m asking you, why are they bad? What makes Sub-Zero struggle? How is he not dangerous with a vortex and 50% conversions with a fatal blow? How bad can your offense be with a top tier 50/50 mix, top tier strike/throw mix, top tier throw loops, top tier movement, and top tier dmg output? How bad can your defense be with 6 frames D1, good reversals, good anti airs, top tier anti-zoning tools, amazing pokes etc?

What makes Scorpion struggle? How hard is it for him to play his game when the opponent can’t jump, can’t throw a projectile, can’t move, can’t pressure, can’t contest his pressure, can’t poke, can’t counterpoke, can’t do shit bc of a stupid move that doesn’t give half a fuck about neutral?
 
I mean....in winners finals it went to game 5 and the final round. Didn’t exactly own him there. Dragon was one touch away from moving to GF on winners side.
oh really? Cool... maybe I should watch it then. I left after TekkenMaster lost.. it was pretty early in the morning for me haaha
 
Because they are limited maybe?
And everyone trying to get the best character he can get for his style. Its all about what suit your style.
Sonya was pretty okay in Mk10, and Scar was playing multiple character in MK10. Same for Tweedy and this is obviously for a reason.

Sub Zero and Scorpion maybe annoying to the mass, but its obvious at top level they are not that good.
Both have limited combo option, its easy reactable, and its easy to play against them. There is not much you need to be aware vs them.
Against Sub Zero and this is his Dead of Winter variation only you have 1 OH that you need to be aware of and that is it.
The same thing with Scorpion and teleport.
Pro players just knows how to play against this characters and know how to react against this move and thats why they dont have problem against them.

And btw just because Sub Zero have 6f d1, doesnt mean its good. It has 16 recovery, HA is 9 and its -6 on block.
Wanna compare it to a Geras one ? 6f, 13 recovery, HA is 13, -4 on block.
But the problem with Sub Zero D1 and his 1,2 its the range.
Most of his move are very easy to punish. His F4 its slow as hell and you can see it from a plane and you can punish this by 4 way.
His B1,4 its slow and most pro punish it by simply crouch and then he eat full punish. Tho its a great move with superb range.
His B3,2 its a good low, but the range sucks hard.
And its all that Sub Zero have.
And the only really dangerous tool that Sub Zero have is his OH, that a lot of people can react to it animation and this move its full punishable.
So even if you react in 50% of the time, you are still in great advantage, because he is going to eat full punish.
And why there is like 10-15 characters that is better than him ?
https://testyourmight.com/threads/subzeros-low-profiling-issues.69579
His Cold Shoulder is mid and its full punishable.
Also just as i said 2 pages ago, his combo are not easy, not easy to convert and most pro are droping them on regular basis. You can watch Buffalo do it often, you can watch Cat do it, and you can regular play him, you know this is on a regular basis and something normal.

And lastly on his KB and FB. His KB are so so. He has one good one on his 1,2,4 8 hit combo. On his back throw, and you wont get the other 2 in a pro comp.
Im talking about Dead of Winter.
His FB is nothing special. Its hard to land on is own, its has very low start up, easy to learn animation and its a full easy punishable. It has low-profiling and you can dodge it, by d+hit.
If you dont know how to play and or punish vs Sub Zero, go to KombatAcademy there it its explained pretty well and how is it .
 
Sub Zero and Scorpion maybe annoying to the mass, but its obvious at top level they are not that good.
Both have limited combo option, its easy reactable, and its easy to play against them. There is not much you need to be aware vs them.
Well that looks like a well explained argument, limited combo options, easy reactable and easy to play against.
 
As much as I love DJT.. I don't think people understand that 1000 player tournaments are not just like a bunch of people waiting around for you to choose a specific line of guys to make the stream station or not. The first priority is making sure things run relatively on time and people (some of whom are playing in multiple games) get their matches played on time.

Occasionally people even get asked if they want to wait for stream and they decline because they'd rather just get their match over with and move on. This is the stuff we don't see watching from home.

Yes this means that sometimes you see people you don't know as well on stream, instead of some guy you were waiting to see. But I think if you tried running a 1000 player bracket with a single stream you'd have a little more sympathy for what people go through.
Yeah, it's just too big of a tournament guys! Don't worry! We get to watch michaelangelo vs random scrub 5 times! :rolleyes: Or billy vs bobby. Don't worry they're probably pro fortnite players.

But we can't get DJT once, or any awesome loser's matches like Zach Rob blowing through a bunch of known/top players on his way to 9th.
 
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