The Darkseid Combo Repository (No Gear)

[geezy89]

Can anyone here tell me anything about the Deadshot match up? I play against a good deadshot player and this match feels really tough. I'm basically taking all the risks while he straight shots me out of almost everything. I've gotten better with the mu as I've gotten more patient and walk my way in but I'm curious if you guys have any advice for me on this one. I should note that I have looked at this https://testyourmight.com/threads/answers-for-deadshots-op-tools-darkseid-edition.64111/. I'm consistently punishing b12u3 with palm strike which helps. Teleporting after meterburn rifle has helped with the mu as well even though I do get punished at times for it. I usually pull out trait after a trade with regular lasers or more than 3/4 screen after a meterburn laser. Still feels like I'm the one always taking risks while he's sitting back building meter the whole game. The biggest issue I feel like I have is when I finally get close to him. I'm getting my mix a fair amount but it always feels risky and with one mistake, back to 3/4 full screen zoning. I don't feel like I have an advantage any where on the screen.

 

[M2Dave]

Can anyone here tell me anything about the Deadshot match up? I play against a good deadshot player and this match feels really tough. I'm basically taking all the risks while he straight shots me out of almost everything. I've gotten better with the mu as I've gotten more patient and walk my way in but I'm curious if you guys have any advice for me on this one. I should note that I have looked at this https://testyourmight.com/threads/answers-for-deadshots-op-tools-darkseid-edition.64111/. I'm consistently punishing b12u3 with palm strike which helps. Teleporting after meterburn rifle has helped with the mu as well even though I do get punished at times for it. I usually pull out trait after a trade with regular lasers or more than 3/4 screen after a meterburn laser. Still feels like I'm the one always taking risks while he's sitting back building meter the whole game. The biggest issue I feel like I have is when I finally get close to him. I'm getting my mix a fair amount but it always feels risky and with one mistake, back to 3/4 full screen zoning. I don't feel like I have an advantage any where on the screen.

I used to believe Darkseid beat Deadshot, but as Deadshot players gradually learned how to deal with grounded and aerial teleport more effectively, this match surprisingly became very difficult. I suggest not being too dependent on the teleport to close the gap, particularly against Deadshot players who are accomplished in the match, as you can put yourself in some really bad situations. The key, as you have already mentioned, is to remain patient and carefully approach footsies range, preferably standing outside of Deadshot's b+1 range, where you can threaten the player with MB b+1,u+3 and MB stomp. While these two moves are obviously punishable on block, Deadshot's damage output is the lowest in the game. As long as you stay away from corners, the risk versus reward ratio always favors Darkseid.

I know I offered limited advice but only because I get the impression that you already fight this match correctly. However, do not be reluctant to take risks, especially against Deadshot. Ultimately, Darkseid will live and die by the unsafe mix ups if his opponent has a superior neutral and zoning game, and Deadshot does.

 

[Eldriken]

I agree with Dave. Deadshot seemed like an even MU at first, but definitely not anymore.

I find that any MU where Darkseid can't really zone at all to stall for his trait results in a pretty rough ride.

 

[geezy89]

I appreciate the responses. It's nice to know I'm not the only Darkseid main who struggles with the match. I've seen a lot of 5-5 on mu charts with this one so I thought I might be missing something. Maybe I'll just try using one of my secondaries instead.

 

[MK Peanuts]

I'm curious what @EMPEROR_KNICKS thinks of the Deadshot matchup given that he plays Grr's Deadshot all the time.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

I actually still feel like Darkseid beats Deadshot. Darkseid out zones him because his lasers do so much more damage than the high shots, and grants a knockdown. Darkseid lasers are one of the very few projectiles that can get in between consecutive high shots from Deadshot (in a lot of other matchups, Deadshot can do consecutive shots and duck, to avoid a counter projectile fired in between). In order to get around the trading high projectiles metagame, Deadshot has to do rifle/trick shot, which get blown up by teleport. Yes, the teleport is a read (and a risk) for Darkseid, but the guess is in his favor.

Am I missing something?

 

[geezy89]

I actually still feel like Darkseid beats Deadshot. Darkseid out zones him because his lasers do so much more damage than the high shots, and grants a knockdown. Darkseid lasers are one of the very few projectiles that can get in between consecutive high shots from Deadshot (in a lot of other matchups, Deadshot can do consecutive shots and duck, to avoid a counter projectile fired in between). In order to get around the trading high projectiles metagame, Deadshot has to do rifle/trick shot, which get blown up by teleport. Yes, the teleport is a read (and a risk) for Darkseid, but the guess is in his favor.

Am I missing something?

A lot of times Deadshot can do exactly what you're talking about to Darkseid and duck the counter laser. Only way I've found it to trade consistently is maybe half screen or closer. Most of the time your going to eat more projectiles than your hitting him with.I think most on here would agree that Darkseid does not outzone Deadshot at all.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

A lot of times Deadshot can do exactly what you're talking about to Darkseid and duck the counter laser. Only way I've found it to trade consistently is maybe half screen or closer. Most of the time your going to eat more projectiles than your hitting him with.I think most on here would agree that Darkseid does not outzone Deadshot at all.

I think you are not doing the reversal laser fast enough. Deadshot cannot duck in time at most ranges if your execution is on point - you don't even have to be that close at all.

 

[geezy89]

I think you are not doing the reversal laser fast enough. Deadshot cannot duck in time at most ranges if your execution is on point - you don't even have to be that close at all.

Hm that's interesting. That very well could be the case (my execution). If what your saying is true then that could be very helpful. I'll have to lab this when I get back home. Thanks.

 

[geezy89]

I think you are not doing the reversal laser fast enough. Deadshot cannot duck in time at most ranges if your execution is on point - you don't even have to be that close at all.

Quick question, when you say you don't have to be that close at all, you mean I should be able to do this from 3/4 + screen?

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Quick question, when you say you don't have to be that close at all, you mean I should be able to do this from 3/4 + screen?

It's been a while since I tested it, so I can't say for sure what spacing it works at, off the top of my head. I do seem to recall that it works from surprisingly far away with proper execution though.

 

[M2Dave]

Quick question, when you say you don't have to be that close at all, you mean I should be able to do this from 3/4 + screen?

Correct. If Deadshot does two consecutive wrist shots, you can trade with grounded omega beams, but trading does not work full screen away and trying to trade at mid range makes grounded omega beams punishable.

 

[EMPEROR_KNICKS]

I'm curious what @EMPEROR_KNICKS thinks of the Deadshot matchup given that he plays Grr's Deadshot all the time.

Darkseid either slightly loses or its a 5 5 imo.

 

[Slavaslave]

Vs Deadshot at full screen you can duck his straight shot and teleport 12df2 to punish another immediate straight shot.

The trick is ducking just in time to use the down as part of your db3 input. It takes a lot of practice, but forces him to respect you even full screen.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Correct. If Deadshot does two consecutive wrist shots, you can trade with grounded omega beams, but trading does not work full screen away and trying to trade at mid range makes grounded omega beams punishable.

In my testing - Deadshot can only duck omega beams and punish from about 50-60% of the screen away (or closer). Meanwhile, Darkseid can trade vs consecutive shots up to like ~85% of the screen away. As such, I think there's a sweet spot between like 60-85% of the screen away that Darkseid wins zoning.

 

[Invincible Salads]

You check with 223 or 21 into db1 or knee. Or you don't end 21 into anything. Up to you.

Darkseid doesn't get much off of a check, but it's better than being disrespected and can allow him to set himself up again for a mixup.

i've started doing 22~bounce cancel actually, either that or if they block it i've started doing 22 into mb knee or finishing it with 223.

 

[Invincible Salads]

btw, my advice for the deadshot MU, MB air omega beam is one of the best tools.

also, scout for deadshots low rifle hard, teleporting in on that early will net you a full combo or at least a free mix. especially if they went and decided to meterburn it.

 

[geezy89]

In my testing - Deadshot can only duck omega beams and punish from about 50-60% of the screen away (or closer). Meanwhile, Darkseid can trade vs consecutive shots up to like ~85% of the screen away. As such, I think there's a sweet spot between like 60-85% of the screen away that Darkseid wins zoning.

Definitely going to try applying this next time I play my friend. Testing this yesterday and it doesn't seem omega beams does WAY more damage, just slightly more which is fine. There also seems to be a sweet spot on when you can trade and call trait. From almost full screen I noticed when I trade and try calling out trait, deadshot can just wake up with another straight shot and bye bye demon. Half screen trait call is guaranteed, but then you run into the problem of being able to be punished. Still useful to be able to trade from full screen though.

Another question I have for everyone is about which demon you guys like using for the mu. I find myself using explody demon a lot to get myself in for the mix up while occasionally mixing it up with overhead demon. Friend likes to pushblock (which more people should do) so I have to mix in teleporting before popping off trait.

Excuse the long post but I feel obligated to say I think the Darkseid community is awesome. I always feel comfortably asking for advice and always get meaningful input from you guys. It's much appreciated for a scrub like me.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Definitely going to try applying this next time I play my friend. Testing this yesterday and it doesn't seem omega beams does WAY more damage, just slightly more which is fine. There also seems to be a sweet spot on when you can trade and call trait. From almost full screen I noticed when I trade and try calling out trait, deadshot can just wake up with another straight shot and bye bye demon. Half screen trait call is guaranteed, but then you run into the problem of being able to be punished. Still useful to be able to trade from full screen though.

Another question I have for everyone is about which demon you guys like using for the mu. I find myself using explody demon a lot to get myself in for the mix up while occasionally mixing it up with overhead demon. Friend likes to pushblock (which more people should do) so I have to mix in teleporting before popping off trait.

Excuse the long post but I feel obligated to say I think the Darkseid community is awesome. I always feel comfortably asking for advice and always get meaningful input from you guys. It's much appreciated for a scrub like me.

I think one thing you are missing is that Darkseid has a lot more health than Deadshot (remember injustice has a weird health system). So while the number of HP being deducted by your laser vs his straight shot looks similar, Darkseid is actually doing substantially more damage in percent terms (which is what matters).

I'm not sure that I'm using his trait as well as I can, but I've typically used the green parademon vs deadshot. The problem with explodey guy vs Deadshot is that Deadshot's wake up knee advances him quite far and pushes him out of explodey guy's range. Green parademon potentially offers slightly less mixup potential but can help you apply pressure regardless of whether or not Deadshot wakes up.

 

[Eldriken]

I think one thing you are missing is that Darkseid has a lot more health than Deadshot (remember injustice has a weird health system). So while the number of HP being deducted by your laser vs his straight shot looks similar, Darkseid is actually doing substantially more damage in percent terms (which is what matters).

I'm not sure that I'm using his trait as well as I can, but I've typically used the green parademon vs deadshot. The problem with explodey guy vs Deadshot is that Deadshot's wake up knee advances him quite far and pushes him out of explodey guy's range. Green parademon potentially offers slightly less mixup potential but can help you apply pressure regardless of whether or not Deadshot wakes up.

The health system leaves a universal 1-3% damage difference between the cast. His health pool causes him to take "more" damage than others, but it balances out. His damage value for damage received is higher because everything is percentage based, it's just the displayed information is based around health values.

His health in this case doesn't make anything better.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

I used to believe Darkseid beat Deadshot, but as Deadshot players gradually learned how to deal with grounded and aerial teleport more effectively, this match surprisingly became very difficult.

OH IMAGINE THAT! IF ONLY WE CALLED IT AFTER WATCHING SONIC MOP PEOPLE WHO LOOKED LIKE THEY DIDN'T EVEN HAVE DARKSEID ON THEIR CHARACTER SELECT SCREEN YET - OH WAIT WE DID LUL!

 

[Paul the Octopus]

The health system leaves a universal 1-3% damage difference between the cast. His health pool causes him to take "more" damage than others, but it balances out. His damage value for damage received is higher because everything is percentage based, it's just the displayed information is based around health values.

His health in this case doesn't make anything better.

I don't think what you're saying is correct.

• Deadshot has 1250 health and Darkseid does 88.89 to him per laser. That means it takes 14.1 lasers to kill Deadshot.
  
• Darkseid has 1400 health and Deadshot does 86.09 per high shot. That means it takes 16.3 high shots for him to kill Darkseid.

In an extreme case where all Darkseid/Deadshot did was use high projectiles, Darkseid would win easily - he can even mess up twice.

It's not an *enormous* advantage, but I do think Darkseid has a material advantage in the zoning battle (footsies is a different story), if played properly.

 

[neveradestroyer]

Deep ji3 high damaging combo, 477.23... the ji3 doesn't really need to crossover... unlike the video. I nicknamed it the anti life equation... Because You have to no life .(To be very bored) to go to endlessness hours to the lab to find something like this.

 

[legion666]

Deep ji3 high damaging combo, 477.23... the ji3 doesn't really need to crossover... unlike the video. I nicknamed it the anti life equation... Because You have to no life .(To be very bored) to go to endlessness hours to the lab to find something like this.

J3 combos in the corner:
1 bar

2 bars