Question The Buffs Bane Needs?

[RYX]

Doombawkz
PND_Mustard
iMLGzus
big_aug
Nori Batousai
AA25Mamba

Discussion for Bane players(mains) only, if you don't use him, please don't comment. Thanks

So, let's be real for a second and say that Bane is currently decent right now. Decent compared to most of the cast being godly. This is a definite problem since Bane, as it is most likely, will end up in the mid to low-mid tier. I don't think he'll be bottom of the barrel since he's definitely more viable than some at this time.

That said, I think his flaws are enough to warrant request for reasonable or extreme buffs and we should get our shit together while this is still possible.

The things I think need to be changed right now are some of his normals, specials, and trait. Just some preliminary thoughts

Normals
-Forward 2 should be replaced with the overhead while the original move is taken out entirely(not likely possible). becomes -5 on block.
-112 becomes -6.


-Standing 1 becomes 7 frames to enable more punishes, with standing 2 becoming 9.
-Wall and Ground bounce become 30 and 32 frames respectively. Wall bounce is +4 instead of -4.
-B.112 launches

Specials
-Raging Charge becomes 23 frames of start-up. If possible, a cancel similar to Grundy's to stop whiffs would be optimal. Meter Burn leaves with 20 frames of advantage and leaves them in touching range.
-Double Punch does 10% instead of 7% and on meter burn, bounces off the ground with enough advantage to combo(or at least in the corner.) A bit more forward movement would be nice too.
-Command Grab on MB leaves the opponent slightly closer.
-Command Grab and MB variants scale less in combos.
-AA Grab has invincibility frames in the 9-frame start-up.
-AA Grab does more damage.
-AA Grab only has one grab(If possible)

-Super does not whiff on moves that collide with it or in their recovery and has a larger vertical hitbox for air characters.

Venom
-Level 2 specials now break armor.
-Bane takes 2 hits before armor breaks.
-1 second less of cooldown.

-Level 3, all moves break armor. (Superman fucking does it)
-Reduce speed debuff on the cooldown.
-7 seconds duration, 7 of cooldown.

-Venom does not induce an increased damage taken. Speed loss and damage output loss remain the same.

-In general, I think he should be granted speed boosts with dashes and walking the more Venom he uses to compensate for crippling speed debuffs(which I hope become less severe)
-More generally speaking, he needs a damage buff. Being able to go into the 40's without Venom or meter would be great.
-I think Bane should have a slightly faster walk cycle. Moves very sluggishly and I feel the dashes recover too slow to compensate against characters with fast projectiles.

A bit extreme but I think it's fair for a character who has nothing beyond mid-screen. What are your thoughts, fellow back breakers? What needs to be improved?

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Bane has such a cool design but he could use some love. I would say a good start would be to buff his normal damage up a little bit, and let that scale with his venom levels.

 

[JaredL]

I swear venom 3 breaks armor or something.

I try to B3 armor his charge and I always get blown up... or well, It happened a few times so I never tried it again.

 

[RYX]

I swear venom 3 breaks armor or something.

I try to B3 armor his charge and I always get blown up... or well, It happened a few times so I never tried it again.

It does. Special moves break armor.

 

[Qwark28]

Double punch on EX should NOT be a launcher, that things best use is for the huge wallcarry it has.

 

[JaredL]

It does. Special moves break armor.

Ahh right, you were saying all moves not just specials. Was confused.

 

[big_aug]

I totally agree with:

Forward 2 - It is retarded. Replace with the F2D
Raging Charge - Give it a cancel for god's sake.
Double Punch - Damage is horrible. Increase damage or add something to it.
Command Grab - MB for a little extra damage and throw them completely out of range unless your in the corner? Uhm, no. Change it.

Venom:

I think they should remove the damage taken debuff and leave everything else the same. I think the damage debuff completely breaks it and is overkill. Like I said, we actually fear using our trait. Does any other character have a trait that has any negatives whatsoever? I don't think they do. Correct me if I'm wrong. Leave the damage output and speed debuffs.

I like your ideas though too.

I agree with you. We have NOTHING at range. Everyone knows it. There is no reason at all to be worried about Bane at range. Charge is so stupid easy to see coming. Jump over and full combo lol

Other stuff is good too, but these are the ones I think are the most important.

 

[PND_Mustard]

i agree with most of these aside form b112 and ex double punch launching, i feel his main shift needs to be his overall damage, i feel he should get better meterless, but of course have it scale more on the higher levels of venom, i know this is a ballsy statement, but i don't think he should recieve a damage debuff, it should either make him take more damage, or cut his damage in more than half, there is no real reason it should do both.

 

[big_aug]

I think taking more damage ruins the character or ruins the game. It completely changes the way you think and play. It creates a fear that I don't think belongs. Doing less damage doesn't make me scared to do stuff, you know?

That's just me though.

And if we are just going to gain some damage from MBing specials and that's it, then it needs to be more. We've all had this debate before though. 5% extra damage on a command grab? Uh, I'll keep the meter for clash, thanks.

 

[JaredL]

What about his his anti air charge? Its meter burned version is not that great. Maybe change it so on meter burn, he drops faster or does something to allow a free anti air throw?

 

[RYX]

What about his his anti air charge? Its meter burned version is not that great. Maybe change it so on meter burn, he drops faster or does something to allow a free anti air throw?

Are you referring to Venom Uppercut? I think dropping faster makes a lot of sense, actually.

 

[AA25Mamba]

I agree entirely with a lot of this.

Normals
- I wish the overhead fist slam wasn't an input of F2D. It's nearly impossible to cancel it into a special in an online match.
- The two frames of startup for standing 1 would be of great help. It's crazy to think of how hard it is to punish with a clos range character like Bane.
- A change to the bounce attacks would be great. It seems as if the entire cast can hit these moves inside of a combo without spending two bars of meter. And Bane has to get them off with that meter. Even then they're hard to manage.
-A launcher for B112 would be amazing. After all, it does even appear as if it should launch.

Specials
- I wouldn't mind if the start up remained the same on the rage charge, as long as you can cancel out of it. And the meter burn should leave you on top of them.
- The double punch damage is insanely low. After all the work to get in and use it properly, it should do more damage.
- The AA grab seems all but useless inside of combos to me. There are times when it gets used on jumping opponents only for them to jump right over it. Doomsday's works wonders, I feel like Bane's should do the same.

Venom
I've always felt that Venom should carry one hit of armor on LVL 1 and 2 on LVL 2. I would be okay with the cooldown the same if you got an extra hit. There are times that the one hit just doesn't cut it (i.e., Deathstroke's sword spins, etc). LVL 3 seems alright to me if the speed debuff didn't happen. Bane already seems slow enough without it. And equaling the time for use and cooldown would be a good idea.

My main complaints with the character is the dealing with the heavy zoning in this game. I feel as if working your way in only to have a few seconds to do damage isn't very balanced, especially at the price you do so. I understand what the intentions were with Bane, to have the venom help him get in and only go high on the Venom for a kill shot. The glaring problem for me is his speed on punishes.

However, if Bane does get any buffs, the ability to have two hits of armor for LVL 2 Venom, Canceling out of the rage charge, and the speed of his standing 1 are at the top of my list.

 

[RWDY Nori]

I don't think he needs major buffs, just little ones. My personal feedback:

-His raging charge doesn't need that big startup, it's very telegraphed and doesn't need to be. I agree w/the cancel option that would make for nice mixups
-Possibly give his raging charge armor before he activates venom? Keyword possibly, I don't know if this is exactly a fair request or not
-A non comboing overhead that's fast and safe would be nice. Again doesn't have to combo
-Fix the consistency on his Break the Bat
-More invincibility on his AA Grab
-I 100% agree w/Venom that he needs a major speed/mobility increase if he's going to take such a huge risk

I will still stand behind the fact he does not need major buffs just minor ones

 

[JaredL]

Are you referring to Venom Uppercut? I think dropping faster makes a lot of sense, actually.

Yeah thats it. People tend to use it on wake up. And its a better anti air than his throw from my experience.

 

[IceNine]

I've not been active on the forum (mainly because I feel lightyears behind, fundamentally), but I do love Bane's gameplay design and I think a lot of your suggested changes augment him in ways that'd make me love it more.

Suffice it to say that I agree with pretty much everything you've laid out, especially when it comes to buffing his speed while on venom and giving him a faster jab to compete with the rest of the cast in the ol' punishing game. Raging Charge also really needs that cancel: I'd even do it at the cost of meter if need be.

As you say, I can't imagine their actually removing f2 in favour of simply f2d, so one possible solution that popped into my head would be to give the move another additional utility while on venom level 3: a wallbounce. It wouldn't remove the awkwardness of f2d but it'd at the very least give players more reason to both use the move and use venom.

 

[LEGI0N47]

I strongly agree with everything, especailly the Venom properties & non venom damage cap. Well put.

I've been thinking about the speed boost with Venom as well. Glad I wasn't alone on that.

Lately the one thing that has been bothering me is that nearly every character, not sure if it's all, has a MB special, trait, or regular special that allows them to continue to pour on the damage. What do we have....nothing. I brought this up to you in another thread but I'd love to see a MB ring toss that produces a bounce instead of one of the other ones we have, except cmb grab keep that one!

Now with the above I would imagine that some people would say that we don't need any extenders because of the possability of the huge damge from venom. LBSH what are the chances that's going to happen in 6-7 seconds against a competant person who knows to watch for it. Sure we might pull out a cmd grab or charge, but i doubt many if any are gonna pull a 70% plus out.

Venom needs adjusted. Agree more hits for lvl 2 & total armor breakage for 3 on everything. Like you said Supe does it and Grundy gets FREE armor on all his specials and it can lead to huge combo damage while we're stuck in the mid 30's. I think cooldown damge need to be lowered as well. No other char in the game to my knowledge recieves additional damage for a trait/special and several of them increase damage quite a bit.

That's all I have for now, of course i'm sure i'll think of something else later. I feel many of you other Bane mains have been in the game (FGC) longer than me and will probobly break this down much better and more in depth than myself and I sincerly hope you do. I really hope that collectively we can get something, even if it's a second here or there or a few frame data changes.

 

[AA25Mamba]

I don't think he needs major buffs, just little ones. My personal feedback:

-His raging charge doesn't need that big startup, it's very telegraphed and doesn't need to be. I agree w/the cancel option that would make for nice mixups
-Possibly give his raging charge armor before he activates venom? Keyword possibly, I don't know if this is exactly a fair request or not
-A non comboing overhead that's fast and safe would be nice. Again doesn't have to combo
-Fix the consistency on his Break the Bat
-More invincibility on his AA Grab
-I 100% agree w/Venom that he needs a major speed/mobility increase if he's going to take such a huge risk

I will still stand behind the fact he does not need major buffs just minor ones

Right, I'm not asking for anything that will break the bank. I think that if you either got a speed increase with venom, or just dealt less damage would be fine. There have been times on a Venom cooldown that I've dealt 8% damage off a combo only to take 30 some off a 4 hit combo.

The problem is, I hope these ideas don't fall on deaf ears.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Right, I'm not asking for anything that will break the bank. I think that if you either got a speed increase with venom, or just dealt less damage would be fine. There have been times on a Venom cooldown that I've dealt 8% damage off a combo only to take 30 some off a 4 hit combo.

The problem is, I hope these ideas don't fall on deaf ears.

I wasn't replying to you, I liked your ideas actually. I just happened to post right after you. Everything I said was meant for everybody in general. Good ideas/post

 

[big_aug]

I'd love to see Raging Charge gain armor on MB. I don't know if that's asking too much. Right now, if you get stuck and you want to charge in, they know you're coming as soon as they hear the sound of Venom pumping.

But yea, a cancel would kind of serve the same purpose.

 

[AA25Mamba]

I wasn't replying to you, I liked your ideas actually. I just happened to post right after you. Everything I said was meant for everybody in general. Good ideas/post

Yea, I know. I was just agreeing with you too.

 

[JaredL]

How about, Banes charge can't cancel into nothing, but into specials? So you can cancel into venom uppercut if you seem em jumping or double punch if you see em blocking low? Throwing it out there.

 

[IceNine]

How about, Banes charge can't cancel into nothing, but into specials? So you can cancel into venom uppercut if you seem em jumping or double punch if you see em blocking low? Throwing it out there.

I've thought about that, thought it might be a bit ridic unless it cost meter.

Which I think is very fair, because it'd be a powerful utility and Bane's pretty much the only character with NO utility in his meter usage.

 

[RYX]

How about, Banes charge can't cancel into nothing, but into specials? So you can cancel into venom uppercut if you seem em jumping or double punch if you see em blocking low? Throwing it out there.

How about both? :tonyt

 

[RWDY Nori]

How about, Banes charge can't cancel into nothing, but into specials? So you can cancel into venom uppercut if you seem em jumping or double punch if you see em blocking low? Throwing it out there.

That would have about 2 threads a day asking him to be nerfed, that's too strong IMO

 

[RYX]

That would have about 2 threads a day asking him to be nerfed, that's too strong IMO

Kabal could do that. And he could cancel to nothing for huge frame advantage off strings. And a flash parry. And bullshit zoning.

I think it'd be fair if he could cancel into nothing/specials for a bit more meter build up close.