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Tech - Pumped Up The Anti-Grandmaster Guide (Work in Progress)

UPR_Nova

Noob
I would like to lead off by saying that the videos in this thread will be enhanced in the near future. This guide needs structure and as of right now, it will not have any. I just want to get the information out there and even though the game is on the verge of being replaced, I think this will get me into the posting mood for Injustice 2. I now know, through personal trial and error, what should and shouldn't be posted and I hope to continue to provide valuable information in the future rather than cluttering up the site with garbage. I think we all should abide by this but that's neither here nor there.

I randomly decided to post this because I'm in a sharing mood. I don't feel like many Jax mains know about this stuff and if they do, they refuse to use it. Every one that I have talked to seems to find this useful so in the worst case, maybe this will help a few people. I should also say this isn't going to change the match-up number in any way; we are still looking at a 3-7, possibly 2-8 (facing a Sub that isn't brain-dead mind you). As of this moment, the tech in this thread will focus on when you have your back against the wall. In the future, I hope to address the mid-screen game. When you have Sub against the wall, it's pretty straightforward; try not to let him out. Without further ado...


The video in the above spoiler relates to the use of Instant Air Ground Pounds (IAGP) in Pumped Up to negate further pressure after a clone cancel in the corner. Again, the lack of completeness in the video goes without saying, however, the main principle is still present. When Sub cancels into regular clone, any follow-up attempt can be immediately stuffed with an IAGP. "Kounter" will flash if this is done correctly and this applies (99.9% sure as of this moment but I need to test a little further) to ANY follow-up attack after a regular clone cancel in the corner.

You may think, "wow, this is a game changer" and it is to an extent but in reality, it simply adds another level to the guessing game in the corner, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The more things Sub has to worry about, the more hesitation is present and the more we benefit as Jax. Sub, on a hard read, can jump the IAGP and punish accordingly. Jax, on a hard read that Sub will jump the IAGP, can combo with neutral jump punch, run under to flip position and finish with Gotcha Grab (GG) restand with Sub in the corner.
Combo notation: NJP, run, f21, 11, f212, 124xxGG ~ 40% (I think. I will adjust this soon to display exact damage) Not too shabby. At least now we can think about moving. The issue is...EXECUTION. If you are consistently hitting this mid-match you are either on a Hitbox or a God. The IAGP needs to be pretty much frame perfect for the "Kounter" message to show. I will add more information to this section as needed when further implementation becomes available.


This video shows the use of what I call the clone block break. This isn't anything new and is something that I used quite a bit in MK9. For those that are unaware, you walk (or run if you have guts) up to the clone and block right before the hurt-box of the clone. Your character will start the blocking animation and move inside of the hurt-box of the clone. The game will treat this as if Sub threw the clone at you, shattering the clone. The disadvantage is that you are in block stun at this moment and smarter Subs can definitely take advantage of this. Still, the clone is gone and you have free movement until the cool-down resets for Sub to place another clone on the screen. Keep in mind also that this is character specific. Different characters block break the clone in different ways so if you aren't a Jax main and watching this video, know that some characters have it easier than others because of the way they stand, block, move, etc. Jax, in my opinion, has a very easy time block breaking the clone and I use this extensively in sets against Grandmaster. I've yet to miss the block break. IAGP on the other hand...yeah.

Let's talk about its use in this match-up. The video shows (besides my terrible conversion on the GG hits and the obligatory tea-bagging of Sub on every occasion) 3 different ways to punish b2 after a regular clone cancel in the corner. The first is the one that occurs the most, at least in my shallow experience of using this tech. The block break on the clone is successful and Sub is already following up with a b2. The b2 is then blocked, leaving Sub open for a free f3 punish, for what should be in the ballpark of 40% (I will adjust this count when I don't drop the complete GG sequence at the end). The second scenario occurs when you fail the clone break attempt and just aren't sure about yourself. This isn't necessarily a problem but there are better punishes to be had. You simply throw Sub in the corner and proceed to clock in for work. The third scenario occurs when you fail the clone break attempt as well, however, it is the optimal punish for a failed clone break. By walking up to attempt a clone break, you prevent the push-back of a blocked b2 and this leaves you in range for a 123 punish.

The clone block break will work against any follow-up attack after regular clone cancel. Again, updates are necessary for the video in order to showcase its effectiveness against every follow-up attack that Sub possesses after regular clone cancel.


Finally, we have the EX clone cancel. The above video showcases, albeit poorly, the use of the tech we have discussed in relation to the EX clone cancel. The first part of the video shows the use of a follow-up b2 after EX clone cancel from Sub. This is essentially punished the same way as the regular clone cancel.

The second part of the video showcases the d4 follow-up attack from Sub after EX clone cancel. This one is tough to deal with because you are forced to commit to an IAGP for a punish. The d4 prevents you from having access to the clone block break because of the cancel advantage on EX clone. This could potentially be string dependent. For example, f4xxEX clone may completely prevent Jax from attempting the clone block break but another string such as b33xxEX clone may allow a clone block break. This is really dependent upon Sub's strings and their cancel advantage which I am not familiar with. I do know that f4xxEX clone is the least negative and maybe even positive so if you are interested in hitting the lab with this, start from there and work your way back. As previously stated, this is punished with an IAGP and as mentioned in the IAGP section, you know that you have successfully punished the attack when the "Kounter" message shows on your screen.

The remainder of the video shows random follow-up attacks that are related to the Yomi layers present when you scare Sub with the above pieces of tech. The first is a quick mid after EX clone cancel. This is punished the same way as the b2 follow-up but the timing FEELS a little tighter. Just know the timing is no different; the speed of the f4 coming at you makes you feel like you have less time to get the clone block break but that isn't the case. The second is related to the Sub attempting to jump in and punish an IAGP. Since the jump in attack happens quicker because of the more positive nature of EX clone cancel, you have less options to deal with the jump. You can always neutral jump punch on a hard read but you have other options as well. Clone block break into back-dash, clone block break into EX GG, clone block break into blocking, etc. I must reiterate that the above video and all videos for that matter need a more presentable update which should be expected in the future but for now, take it to the lab and play around.

I sincerely hope that if you didn't know about these things, you have learned something valuable from this post. If you did know about them, shame on you for not telling others! In all seriousness, I just came back to the game and found out how TERRIBLE the match-up is now that we can't reversal punish with EX Overhead Dash Punch or at least get out with EX Straight Dash Punch. Hopefully, these few things added to your game can make Subs think twice when we are cornered.
 
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UPR_Nova

Noob
I'd say both. xD
TBH I don't really think you can do much more with this MU. Good job dude!
Thanks a lot! I plan to add some small changes, Wrestler and HW specific tools and make sure everything is on point but I definitely agree that the tools just aren't good enough to overcome the match-up.
 

UPR_Nova

Noob
I have best anti gm tech - pick mystic,flame fist or possessed :3
Dude, no joke. I picked up Mystic for this match-up but it doesn't flow like Jax so it really hasn't helped. Just need more practice I guess.

Edit: Could you expand on Flame Fist? For sake of fun, I would rather use Liu Kang.
 

LaidbackOne

Scrubby nice guy
Dude, no joke. I picked up Mystic for this match-up but it doesn't flow like Jax so it really hasn't helped. Just need more practice I guess.

Edit: Could you expand on Flame Fist? For sake of fun, I would rather use Liu Kang.
He has a fast recovering projectile which for some GM mains = a loosing MU, lol.
 

LaidbackOne

Scrubby nice guy
not only this but he can get out of a corner clone trap for free with safe ex db2 i think it is ?
First of all, for a bard doesn't equal for free.
Just because you can't mindlessly mix but have to watch if your oponent has a bar/bait a wakeup doesn't mean its a bad matchup.
 

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
Imo this mu is bad for GM . Gets zoned hard , cant get in with slide cuz low fb , when hes finally in , ex db2 and back to full screen . Add to this massive chip dmg with FF .
 

LaidbackOne

Scrubby nice guy
Imo this mu is bad for GM . Gets zoned hard , cant get in with slide cuz low fb , when hes finally in , ex db2 and back to full screen . Add to this massive chip dmg with FF .
Ok, I guess you can take your obviously wrong conclusions about this MU to a different thread so we can stop derailing it.
Remember that just because you can't slide under projectiles and get hit with an armored move doesn't mean its a bad MU. He deals the same chip against anyone else so you are wrong here aswell. You just get outplayed.
 

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
Ok, I guess you can take your obviously wrong conclusions about this MU to a different thread so we can stop derailing it.
Remember that just because you can't slide under projectiles and get hit with an armored move doesn't mean its a bad MU. He deals the same chip against anyone else so you are wrong here aswell. You just get outplayed.
I dont play gm anymore anyway , came back to my old main quan chi . Yeah maybe ur right and I just sucked with gm and was getting outplayed so it felt like bad mu ....
 

Wigy

There it is...
How to beat sub- pick another character.

Hes guna use 1/8th the brainpower and 7-3 you still on a whole bunch of characters
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Imo this mu is bad for GM . Gets zoned hard , cant get in with slide cuz low fb , when hes finally in , ex db2 and back to full screen . Add to this massive chip dmg with FF .
Last thing I'm gonna say about Liu Kang but i feel like it's good info and I wish I learned it sooner. You can low profile ex db2 and njp it pretty easy
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I respect you for wanting to do this with your character but honestly your best bet is to learn a character like Mystic, Lasher, Aftershock, Crystlline, Demo, Possessed, etc. Anyone with a meterless counter for klone.
 

UPR_Nova

Noob
Everyone is kinda missing the point. Let's get serious. Who am I? Exactly. An unknown. Therefore, what happens when I lose a set? Nothing. So...my need/desire to find an alternate character is extremely small. If we could keep the conversation in direct relation to the guide it would be greatly appreciated. I like to win and simultaneously have fun. Hopefully, in Injustice 2 I can start having the "it's time for an alternate" conversation. As a side note, character loyalists do exist. Can't win for losing.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Everyone is kinda missing the point. Let's get serious. Who am I? Exactly. An unknown. Therefore, what happens when I lose a set? Nothing. So...my need/desire to find an alternate character is extremely small. If we could keep the conversation in direct relation to the guide it would be greatly appreciated. I like to win and simultaneously have fun. Hopefully, in Injustice 2 I can start having the "it's time for an alternate" conversation. As a side note, character loyalists do exist. Can't win for losing.
I can definitely respect that I know what it was like trying to use Sub vs pre patch D'Vorah, Alien, etc. Kudos for sticking to Jax