What i'm about to write is some explanations on some change that received a negative/Positive comment in the Thread ... (( i might mess-up in some sentences, which i'll fix later if i find any ))
1. The main universal change that all these changes have in common is is to reduce the Wake-Up/Reversal Meta and that no safe Armor Attack special move should be safe. that's why you'll notice in the change-list a lot of armor moves became heavily more punishable and some armored moves armor gone to reduce the multiple armored moves options on Wake-Up.
KL Teleport is already bad, bad startup, bad tracking, useless on block, jab punishable on reaction and he adds more startups
Why would you make Lao's regular teleport even slower? It's already one of the most useless moves in the game
Kung Lao's regular teleport should only be used on a read.
read point number 1 above. ................ But still Possessed will Have two wake-ups, EX BF2 ( -10 on blk ) and EX Tele ( slow with one 1 of armor.
respect to the overhead from mid range.
he will get in using DF1 and still be 0 on block
Changes proposed to Balanced are in the line of nrs changes: complementary and not addressing any of Balanced's true current problems.
He Should receive excellent buffs, because he will be broken ... i guess balance wasn't meant to see the top tier light
.
Lack of Cage section hurts my eyes
HE said Johnny in all variations is fine and in a good place now including Fisticuffs due to everyone being normalized.
Double digits for swarm queen again? No, thanks.
additional recovery on regular low puddle was added and can be escaped with armored special.
Surprisingly Sonya wasn't even mentioned.
She is fine the way she is.
I mean I get that -2 on block makes EX-DB2 too easy to constantly throw out (especially with Thunder God's meter building), but -12 would make Raiden's wakeup game really bad outside of Displacer's EX-teleport. -7 I could live with, but -12 is too much.
Read point number 1 above.
Who punishes her DF2 or MB DF2 from full screen and how?
i would like to know that answer.
Simply neutral duck the bullets then do the move asap.
Kenshi can do bf spirit asshole. Quan can do Rune and obviously his Warlock nonsense and I think he can fuckin MB trance from fullscreen too, Jacqui can shoot back as a punish, Shinnok BS can do scoop from basically fullscreen.
nope
If they remove the armor off ex stomp he won't even have a wake up for pressuring opponents unless he uses two bars basically??
Read point number 1 above.
Because you wouldn't be able to use it mindlessly on wakeup?
Just like what TM suggested in his Point 1 above.
A lot of what you stated aren't punishes. Only punishes comes from the low profiling projectiles and slides that not every has and the gap that not everyone can exploit. Only people that can really exploit that gap are TP characters. The whole trades with Soul Ball, Ice Ball etc. Thing is a stupid argument because the purpose of those moves are to win every trade so complaining about how you lose a soul ball trade is stupid.
Are you just trying to spread misinfo for buffs? ik you know Kenshi can't punish, Quan can't punish, Kano can't punish, Johnny can't punish, Koyal can't punish with overhead sword, Tanya can't punish with B2, Shinnok can't punish. The move is minus 10 and all those moves you said these characters can use are slower than 10 frames
Thank You
So pretty much buff Tekken Master's characters and nerf everyone else
Tfw you want to buff your characters but nerf everyone else's.
You can tell who he plays from these suggestions lol, no bias in there
He plays 80% of the cast at a high level ... but thinks that currently kotal & dvorah aren't tournament viable and near abysmal and need some improvements. Tekken Master Said that: with the current patch, u won't see Swarm Queen nor WG/BG Kotal in Top 8s anymore except if he used them. he wanted to include Sun God, but i reminded him that Illusions gets Top 8 in Majors, but he replied that but not relying on him Alone.
First of all Shinnok doesn't have a f223 string, it is f224.
First of all, it was a typing error and i didn't notice it till later.
Second, It is hard to understand what you want his shoulder to be, first you say ex bf3 is -23 ( on what????block??? Hit????! Seems that on block since you are saying down from -15) then you say ENhanced bf3 and ex bf3 are -20, I assume you mean meterburned bf3 and meterbuned ex bf3.
Shinnok's don't need to be -23 on block to be punishable.
Second, It is hard to understand what you want his shoulder to be, first you say ex bf3 is -23 ( on what????block??? Hit????! Seems that on block since you are saying down from -15) then you say ENhanced bf3 and ex bf3 are -20, I assume you mean meterburned bf3 and meterbuned ex bf3.[/QUOTE]
in the current version, bf3 is a godlike move with the added meterburned launcher. he suggested that ex bf3 becomes -23 on blk because a lot of shinnok player abuse the meterburned launcher and just perfome a regular ex bf3 in fear of the MB'ed launcher and store the second meter. with that mentality ex bf3 became a powerful move. same goes with regular bf3 .. but Tekken Master said that regular bf3 should stay -15 on blk.
- Tele-Flurry and EX Tele-Flurry are now 30 frames on recovery.
[/SPOILER]
i love balanced Kenshi with all my hard and he is one of my few characters that i play consistently, but being 30F on recovery is gonna make him way too overowered.
B2 only gets nerfed in Grandmaster? And remains -13 in the other variations?
all variations .. sorry a typing error
Seriously? He wants to kill Mournful?
Boi if you dont get yo....
This change will buff her and with the current pushback ad blockstun, its very hard to punish.
12 frames move with a lot of range that sends the opponent to fullscreen that is where Mournful can zone the shit out of her opponent, will do 10% damage on hit and -10 on block but still with a lot of pushback and blockstun...
Yeah... it will kill Mournful
Thank You Bro
It'd be more interesting to know what the general consensus on a tier list would be before suggesting balance changes, especially with MKX being on its last legs and Injustice 2 right around the corner. I'm surprised no one has made one yet.
we will do a tier list soon
berserker stance even means
his chainsaw stance
do you need to wait 3 frames longer
wait 3 frames longer
He has single handedly killed anything interesting/good about Unstoppable
he will still be good with everyone being normalized. and for both of his command grabs having their armor removed, Read Point number 1
> Kano
> Make ex upball -11
Kill yourself
Read Point number 1 above.
why not just say bicycle kick
Bicycle Punch is for Dualist & Dragon Fire .... he was refereeing to windmill punches in Flame Fist Variation, that's why i wrote FBF4 under Flame Fist
Swarm Queen changes are pretty on point. A lot of people are just seeing the return of puddle oki, but don't seem to realize that the recovery nerf is still there. Anyone with a decently fast wakeup can punish D'vorah for trying to use puddle on knockdown, so even if it was +20 for a bar, you still have real options to get out of it.
Thank You
Since I'm the only person who gives a shit about the character;
Bo' Rai Cho changes
Universal
F2 changed to a mid from high (All variations)
F2 startup changed to 12 frames (up from 15)
Dragon Breath
Unchanged
Drunken Master
Any of these options - plus what I haven't mentioned in that thread.
Remove armour from ex bf3
Remove invincibility from ex dd3
Bartitsu
DF3 launches without spending a bar, startup changed to 28 frames (down from 24). Changed to -15 on block (down from -13). Still keeps it's insane damage scaling from the current meterburn version.
There are some more hits I'd be willing to take in drunken master and bartitsu in exchange for what I'm asking but I haven't thought of them as of yet.
according to Tekken Master ... BRC is fine the way he is and will actually raise in the tier list a bit with the normalization across the board.
Ex telestomp is his armored check for people that try to jump out of command grab or punch walk,
Read point number 1 above.
Seems like Erron would be worse after these changes, is that even possible?
Read point number 1 above.
on the contrary, he got buffed here ... Faster F1 ... For Gunslinger, Stand into 4 has 4 Less Recovery Frames. and Stand into 4 turned into High,High is still gonna give ppl trouble, just look at full-auto's gun-shot (( df2 )), its high but still give ppl trouble. and for Outlaw, he will receive a safe normal that he can end string with Tarkatan Stab DF2/ EX DF2 being -5 on blk (( from -23 )).
Erron:
Armour removed from EX Command Grab - EX DBF2
Read number 1 above.
Cyber Sub
Divekicks is more minus on block
Dragon Fangs
Remove armor from EX Telestomp
Erron Black
Armour removed from EX Command Grab - EX DBF2
Gunslinger
Stand into 4 is now High,High (( from Mid,Mid ))
Kano
EX Upball - EX DB2 -11 (( from -5 ))
Jax
F212 is -10 on block (( from -5 ))
Kung Lao
Regular Teleport has more startup
Alien
BF4 is -15 on block (( from -10 ))
lmao.
i'd like to know the reasoning behind these and as well as pretty much everything else in the op list.
for Dragon Fangs, Erron Black, Kano ... Read point number 1 above.
for Kung Lao, regular teleport should only be used in a read and not randomly. if the KL player wanted a fast teleport, he should spend a bar.
Alien, Evo 2016
... JK, to reduce his 50/50s.
Jax F212 is a buff actually ... these are the reason,
* F212 launches near jax for a follow-up combo
* F212 has more damage scaling
for Cyber-Sub, to reduce randomness and be more punishable when attempting a low/overhead hard-to-blockable mix-up with the ice bomb.
Your Ermac changes are horrendous m8. 0/8 I r8 no h8 but srsly m8.
you want to use armor ... use EX DB2, it has armor. the other 2 string changes is needed.
No one notice he asked cyber sz ice ball to be -3 on block
Safe iceball, rip the entire cast. I have a feeling this was a typo lol.
he needs it.
You're pretty entertaining to watch on stream, dude.
Don't ruin it with becoming a TYM-poster.
he didn't post it ... i did
My nigga... who the fuck wants to BUFF grandmaster ....
With the double cooldown on ice clone ... its gonna hurt him a lot.
Shame on the 4 souls that agreed with these changes
i was the first
if anything, the non ex clone should go away whenever the opponent succesfully block an attack
This is a good suggestion.
Wow nothing but nerfs for kang and Kano up ball is now punishable.
Nope.
Read point number 1 above,
Smoke's f4d1 really doesn't need to be changed in my opinion, it is a good tool that allows you to stay safe on confirm but be punished if you finish f4d1,2 without confirming. No change.
he should go for the other string ... F42 (( - 5 ob blk ))
The change that I would make for Imposter Shinnok in general is to not allow him to get "FREE" ex moves. Ermac, Cassie, Alien, Johnny, Kotal, etc. He should have to spend a bar to get the enhanced version of these moves.
Good Suggestion
@x-azeez coming in clutch with that friend support doe lol.
Does he mean his hat throw which is pretty fucking terrible?
the pretty f*cking terrible move that every pro mkx players get hit by it all the time for some reason.
Interested in who those 6 "yes" are.
No offense at all to Tekken Master, but there are some phenomenal players in our scene who can play, win/place, but aren't good when it comes to things like tier lists and balance changes. Hell im like that too, thats why I stick to playing and reading and not making balance and tier lists.
Im not gonna insult him, but the changes are pretty crazy, i just came back and took a look and literally made the blinking white guy meme face.
Crazy Changes ??!!
And for Last, GRANDMASTER SUBZERO.
The double cooldown will help characters that gets raped by constant ice clone that reappearing at a fast pace to have a very good chance to get in on sub play their game. also GM will have less damage in the corner because he will be forced to not do a ice clone mid-combo in the corner so that he can bring the ice clone and resume his MIX.
and the added 7 frames on regular ice clone on recovery plus with the ice clone doesn't go away on block, will help subzero in unfavorable matches like, dvorah, predator HQT, tremor's, Bartitsu, Shinnok, Sektor, Full-Auto, Lasher, Mystic, Scorpion, Possessed, Tempest, Buzzsaw, Tanya and a few more.
