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Breakthrough - Sub-Zero SZ 4Oct patch thread.

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
I'm having a really tough time dealing with characters who have strong jump attacks and general air game, like Ermac and Tanya. Another big one is Smoke' njp. How are you all dealing with this? Frost bomb used to be the solution, but that obviously won't help at all now.
If you play GM, you can deal against Smoke and Kobu Jutsu Tanya. Ermac is a hard bitch to deal as Sub Zero. Smoke's and Tanya's weakness is the teleportation, so you'll need to make the Ice Klone and stay close to it. Have played against Smoke, since he's my mate's main, so I know his MUs very well.
 

rubmytaco

CarriedByClone
If you play GM, you can deal against Smoke and Kobu Jutsu Tanya. Ermac is a hard bitch to deal as Sub Zero. Smoke's and Tanya's weakness is the teleportation, so you'll need to make the Ice Klone and stay close to it. Have played against Smoke, since he's my mate's main, so I know his MUs very well.
Tanya doesn't care about the clone, but Smoke can't do anything about it. GM-Smoke is hugely in GM's favor. However I'm talking about Unbreakable specifically.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Tanya doesn't care about the clone, but Smoke can't do anything about it. GM-Smoke is hugely in GM's favor. However I'm talking about Unbreakable specifically.
If you talk about UB, then those are his bad MUs. Smoke will keep doing the skydrop attack, and Tanya will keep doing teleportation to above SZ and do her downward attack or just getting away and do the fireballs. I would think that it's 7-3 against SZ. Ermac is still a hard bitch to deal with, because of his psychokinetic powers.
 

rubmytaco

CarriedByClone
If you talk about UB, then those are his bad MUs. Smoke will keep doing the skydrop attack, and Tanya will keep doing teleportation to above SZ and do her downward attack or just getting away and do the fireballs. I would think that it's 7-3 against SZ. Ermac is still a hard bitch to deal with, because of his psychokinetic powers.
I'm asking specifically about how you deal with jumping attacks with Sub (Unbreakable). I know how those characters work, and that's fine. I have a feeling that Sub got hit hard in the anti air department because of the armor nerfs, and I want to know how other players are dealing with this.
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
I'm asking specifically about how you deal with jumping attacks with Sub (Unbreakable). I know how those characters work, and that's fine. I have a feeling that Sub got hit hard in the anti air department because of the armor nerfs, and I want to know how other players are dealing with this.
But Ermac is 7-3 against Subzero...
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
I'm asking specifically about how you deal with jumping attacks with Sub (Unbreakable). I know how those characters work, and that's fine. I have a feeling that Sub got hit hard in the anti air department because of the armor nerfs, and I want to know how other players are dealing with this.
I would deal with them with Frost Bomb (DB1), or with D2, or S1, or another move that @Jeffrey Wolf mentioned.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
If you want to deal against their jumping attacks, do the Frost Bomb to pull out some kombos.
 

Lokheit

Noob
Not what I'm asking.. Let me make this simpler. If Ermac jumps at you, what do you do? I haven't found a reliable way to anti air him. So do you just hold that and block?
I think he was trolling you with that one.

PS: Midscreen at least, when jump attacks are too overwhelming, you can always slide under. If you know they're jumping instant JIKick (3) intercepts everything too (but you need to know they're jumping). Standing 1 is one of the most used anti-airs for combo punish, but some hitboxes can go through it so it depends a bit on what you're facing.
 
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Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
If ermac jumps at me I try to trip guard with slide lol. Or I'll just slide under him if it will put me in a favorable position corner wise. This is for Grandmaster, but I'm thinking that Cryomancer would be better vs Ermac. Cryo still gets raped in the neutral, but if he can steam roll of he gets in and catches ermac without meter.

As for jump ins in general, obviously s1 is good for the non dumb ones, hate to say it but with frost bomb gone I find myself respecting a lot of jump ins like scorpion, sub-zero, ermac, etc..

Have any of you guys tried to implement the faster D2 as an anti-air? Is it any good or still trash?
 

rubmytaco

CarriedByClone
If ermac jumps at me I try to trip guard with slide lol. Or I'll just slide under him if it will put me in a favorable position corner wise. This is for Grandmaster, but I'm thinking that Cryomancer would be better vs Ermac. Cryo still gets raped in the neutral, but if he can steam roll of he gets in and catches ermac without meter.

As for jump ins in general, obviously s1 is good for the non dumb ones, hate to say it but with frost bomb gone I find myself respecting a lot of jump ins like scorpion, sub-zero, ermac, etc..

Have any of you guys tried to implement the faster D2 as an anti-air? Is it any good or still trash?
This. I find myself having to respect way more jumping as well and it's pissing me off.
 

Jeffrey Wolf

YouTube: Jeffrey B Wolf
This. I find myself having to respect way more jumping as well and it's pissing me off.
Dankster basically summed it up. However, the hit box on Burst is quite large, so it can still be used as an AA, you just need to start earlier. Beyond that, you can use D4 to make jump-ins whiff, similar to MK9, or as Dankster said, you can just leave by Sliding. You have to much more on point AA with Unbreakable, because he doesn't have a one size fits all answer like some other characters do, which can be frustrating. That said, he gets one of the best D2 combos midscreen using EN Slide =)
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Dankster basically summed it up. However, the hit box on Burst is quite large, so it can still be used as an AA, you just need to start earlier. Beyond that, you can use D4 to make jump-ins whiff, similar to MK9, or as Dankster said, you can just leave by Sliding. You have to much more on point AA with Unbreakable, because he doesn't have a one size fits all answer like some other characters do, which can be frustrating. That said, he gets one of the best D2 combos midscreen using EN Slide =)
Burst is too slow to aa unless it's a hard read , subs s1 works great tho
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
@Jeffrey Wolf can you lab this combo see if you get it?

Ex slide, NJP, B12, 123 slide. I could swear I was doing it yesterday and it was doing like 27%, which is the highest damage off a raw EX slide, but today I couldn't land it for the life of me.
 

Lokheit

Noob
@Jeffrey Wolf can you lab this combo see if you get it?

Ex slide, NJP, B12, 123 slide. I could swear I was doing it yesterday and it was doing like 27%, which is the highest damage off a raw EX slide, but today I couldn't land it for the life of me.
Interesting, I know the patch introduced a delay on Kung Lao's 1 and 11 against airborned opponents after hit... maybe after they saw the double B12 midscreen Cryo combos they did something similar in a hotfix? I'm in the lab and maybe it's just me (I always sucked at the double B12) but I can't connect those either... @Gilbagz are you having this problem? EDIT: Nevermind they're still there I was seeing things... that said, for the UB one, there seems to be something fishy with his buttons after that combination.
 

Gilbagz

Joker here~
Interesting, I know the patch introduced a delay on Kung Lao's 1 and 11 against airborned opponents after hit... maybe after they saw the double B12 midscreen Cryo combos they did something similar in a hotfix? I'm in the lab and maybe it's just me (I always sucked at the double B12) but I can't connect those either... @Gilbagz are you having this problem? EDIT: Nevermind they're still there I was seeing things... that said, for the UB one, there seems to be something fishy with his buttons after that combination.
Double b12 is generally pretty tight lol
Against males, you manually time it as they fall to just above your head.
For females after the f122 launch, take a step back then b12 d1 b12. Helps you get under the higher launch.

Also yeah that d1 between helps it soooooo much.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
@Jeffrey Wolf can you lab this combo see if you get it?

Ex slide, NJP, B12, 123 slide. I could swear I was doing it yesterday and it was doing like 27%, which is the highest damage off a raw EX slide, but today I couldn't land it for the life of me.
I could lab it tomorrow once my PS4 controller gets charged. I think that I could add one or two things on this kombo you might have found.
 

Tender

Noob
Not sure if anyone posted this already.

I modified one of Unbreakable's meterlese combos off of the B12 string that does 1% less than the original. But is a bit easier to execute.

Original:
B12, Aura, B12, Ice ball, JIP1, 242, Run, 123, Slide = 31%


Modified:
B12, Ice ball, JIP1, B12, Aura, 242, Run, 123, Slide = 30%


Connecting 242 after Aura is easier than B12, so it's a nice little compromise until I get Aura into B12 more consistently.

I really fucking wish Aura into B12 was as easy as 242. I guess I'll keep hammering it out until it's just second nature. Right now I just feel like not being able to do Aura into B12 is the only thing really holding me back from properly using and enjoying UB.
Bro don't feel like u can't enjoy ub before u get this. Link is too tight it's impractical in real match, go for consistency than big damage always. B12 aura b12 is great but even the best players drop things. ;)
 

Jeffrey Wolf

YouTube: Jeffrey B Wolf
@Jeffrey Wolf can you lab this combo see if you get it?

Ex slide, NJP, B12, 123 slide. I could swear I was doing it yesterday and it was doing like 27%, which is the highest damage off a raw EX slide, but today I couldn't land it for the life of me.
As far as I know, it's not possible, and I tried it a bunch. Here are the ones that give you 24%:

EX Slide, NJP, JIP, run, 1, run, B12~Slide
EX Slide, wait for opponent to fall from freeze, B12, 123~Slide

And the one that gives 25%:

EX Slide, run, D2, run, F4~Slide (only works on males).