Breakthrough - Sub-Zero SZ 4Oct patch thread.

[Dankster Morgan]

He had no way to build bar OR get the life lead.

 

[Jeffrey Wolf]

He had no way to build bar OR get the life lead.

You start the match with bar. GM puts up Klone, UB puts on Aura. GM throws Ice Ball or Klone, UB EN Slide. UB gets first hit bonus for meter, does combo to get life lead on GM, and continue to pressure if wanted after Slide ender. Situation resets. GM puts up Klone. UB puts on Aura. Wait for clock to run out/EN Slide to counter as needed.

Like I said, boring match, but pretty easy.

 

[hkriderz]

Honestly at this point we should all have had female touching Klone combos mastered. It's not even a 1 frame link. That's what I consider hard as hell. These aren't that bad to do. It's fine if you can't get it but it's not impossible. Those of us that can and choose to do them against female opponents will excel the character.

They said the same thing about TAC infinites in marvel. "It's too difficult, execution is too high, height is variable, too hard to do in a random environment of a marvel match." Yet look at it now, there are game strategies built around TAC infinites. Those are way harder than these female combos. I just encourage everyone to not give up and keep trying. Once you get the feel for the sweet spot it's not so bad.

Learning female reclone combos will not really excel the character at this point. They always existed and some tried them, but no one wanted to go through the mess of inconsistent hitboxes. Why do you see Tom Madzin Buffalo etc. never even attempt them? These types of combos are at the mercy of the game's engine and the clone validity check. NRS failed to fix female hitboxes so so be it. The f12 buff is a nice compensation.

Also even on raptors combo its height dependent. The 242 has to hit them high up so the rest will connect.

IMO you're just putting yourself through extra work for 3% more damage into the same setup when there's a similar combo that is perfectly easy and 100% consistent to do and grants you the exact same. Now if we had to reclone to get f12 HKD i would understand. But the new f12 doesn't need it.

Again, new patch, new possibilities. You never know

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Getting re-clones off of meterless female shatters is huge.

 

[kencheese]

• Subzero - Towards+FP now has 10 startup frames (down from 15)
• Subzero - Towards+FP,BP is now -2 on block (down from +2)
• Subzero - Down+FP now has 7 startup frames (down from 9)
• Subzero - Icy Slide now has 2 hits of armor
• Subzero - Frost Bomb no longer has armor and has 10 less recovery frames on hit and miss
• Subzero - Ice Burst is now -5 on block (up from -10)
• Subzero - Down+BP now has 11 startup frames (down from 12) and 4 active frames (up from 3)
• Subzero - fixed a bug where an opponent would drop out of a frozen reaction if Subzero blocked an attack on the same frame
• Subzero (Cryomancer) - Towards+BK,BP,FP+FK now does the same animation and damage as the other variations
• Subzero (Cryomancer) - added new special move Polar Puncture & Arctic Assault which functions as a command grab which can be special cancelled out of on hit
• Subzero (Cryomancer) - Frost Hammer & Crushing Hammer do 2 less damage
• Subzero (Cryomancer) - Towards+FP,BP is now -7 on block (down from 0)
• Subzero (Cryomancer) - Towards+FP,BP,BP is now -14 on block (down from -9)
• Subzero (Unbreakable) - Barrier Of Ice now has 25 less recovery frames
• Subzero (Unbreakable) - Barrier Of Frost now has 15 less recovery frames
• Subzero (Unbreakable) - Ice Burst & Frost Bomb have increased pushback when Ice Aura or Frozen Aura are active
• Subzero (Grandmaster) - Ice Statue no longer has armor

Personal commentary for each variation:

General:

Frost Bomb loses armor (like most launchers), but has less recovery on hit (so better juggles) or miss. Ice Burst (meterless version) is now -5 on block down from -10 (safest string end now).

The move generally has some good applications BUT it's no longer an anti-air because it lost its armor, a bit of a nerf and a bit of a buff here.

D1 being 7 frames is good for all variations: the klone-less variations will benefit from a faster poke (it had no use before with D3 and D4 being as fast as D1) and GM will benefit for its corner juggles, specially against female hitboxes as a faster D1 increases the juggling window.

The uppercut is slightly better but nothing to write home about I think (and I don't see any mention on Cryo's uppercut, probably staying slow). At least he still has S1 as a good anti-air and they said it would be easier now to hit airborne opponents.

F1 is now much faster (from 15 to 10 frames) BUT all of his followups (specially the Cryo specific ones) are now worse on block. I think this mostly helps GM with his juggles (specially combined with the faster D1) as it's 5 frames more to land the ender for the klone setup. Honestly I was hoping for Cryo to have it removed and replaced with the rest of the F122 string (so it would start with the sword), not sure how the string being faster but now more negative will play out for him (it looks worse for his after knockdown gameplay to be honest).

Icy Slide getting 2 hits of armor I guess is fine, but the move was really fast anyway, not sure how it will play out. I guess it can help against trap setups.

Grand Master:

Indirect buff: Alien can't get his tail through the klone.

Indirect nerf: A lot of characters got multi-hit armor, so klone setups will be easier to escape now.

Overall as mentioned above he will get easier juggles thanks to faster D1 and F1 (both featured on his best corner combo setups) and probably won't have so many problems against females.

You will need to be very careful and sometimes try to bait opponents because a lot of them will be able to get out of the corner now.

He also lost the armor on EX Klone (along with most armored moves across the cast) so he can't make some cancels safe anymore.

Overal I think he's more honest and fair now and the corner game isn't as dominating as it used to be so he will be fine.

Cryomancer:

The command grab is an interesting addition but here are a couple of points:

- The grab damage is lower than it used to be 5% (12.5% if canceled into hammer) but at least you can compensate a bit as now you can use B12 in many combos where you used F42 before. The meterless damage will drop only a bit, but the damage scaling is also worse now (looking at the numbers on the screen, it went from 85% to 75%) so meter burn combos will have a damage reduction.

- Both hammers got their damage down by 2 points, which combined with the damage drop and heavier damage scaling on the grab brings overal damage down.

Also I want to point out that there is no mention on EX Grab having armor or not (will need to check in the lab) or if EX Hammer got extra armor hits (it would make more sense for this slow move than for the fast slide, but probably it even lost the only armor hit as it's a launcher).

F12 even with the faster F1 still is still a slow neutral tool and now F12 and F122 are both worse on block (no more neutral advantage after knockdown jump setup which was an essential part of his game).

Cryo didn't have its neutral game fixed (I was really hoping the F1 would've been a sword starting string) and combo damage is going down, but at least now he has a faster poke and a grab to tick throw so finally he is more of an offensive character (he never was before, he was just a punisher and a bad one). I will be labbing him really hard during the comming weeks (will have to wait a couple of days as I got issues to attend in the comming days though), I'm not sure if this will be so good (other grapplers have better pokes, better neutral and better damage at the same time) but I'm excited to re-learn him and maybe I'm surprised with this new Cryomancer so time will tell and I hope his other tools compensate for worse buttons than most grapplers.

The EX grab and hammer having armor (won't know until the patch is available) would be huge factors.

EDIT: The fact that most armored moves either don't have armor anymore or have multi armor, makes Air Hammer even worse than before, so if it had no use at all, now it's just decoration lol.

Unbreakable:

The faster recovery on the parry is nice and the EX one will be really hard to punish so that's a good thing. Pushback on aura enhanced burst and bomb combined with burst being less negative could give mini block jails from F4xxEXAura.

They mentioned that the aura slide retaining its armor made it a great move now that most launchers are losing their armor, but I want to remind everyone that the damage scale on that move sucks a lot, so we will see if the lack of armor on launchers across the cast makes this one so good or not.


Overal I think GM is now more honest and Cryo and UB are both a bit better, but just a bit and there were compensation nerf bits here and there, which is a good thing as I didn't want something over the top, but time will tell if it's enough in the new meta. I want to take some time analyzing the whole picture with the state of other characters, I'm not sure yet about Cryo's and UB's position now but at least I will have a lot of fun in the lab.

I am not sure but I thinks cryo has lost his armor wake up crushing hammer, only get enhanced, iam I correct or am I wrong

 

[Lokheit]

I am not sure but I thinks cryo has lost his armor wake up crushing hammer, only get enhanced, iam I correct or am I wrong

The thread started before the patch was actually playable, we've learned since then that Hammer lost its armor but the EX Grab has armor.

 

[RM Ree]

Shatter combo re-clones on females, man... That's the stuff of legend. Previously, I just bit the bullet and burned the bar on 11 xx ex clone. With his new frames and cancel advantage, maybe there's something better we could use.

 

[hkriderz]

Getting re-clones off of meterless female shatters is huge.

Mind sharing the combos? I usually just go for s1 f12. For a 37-40%

Also how consistent is it?

 

[hkriderz]

I hear you hkriderz, I also think Simplicity and Efficiency is Best for Female Hitboxes. Hell Simplicity and Effecincy is Best period. Why add Extra Buttons for 1-2% more Damage when you risk dropping a combo because 'Shit happens' where you can lose your position and get full combo punished.

I used to do the B2, 11 Ice Ball on females. Shitty Damage but a guaranteed Set Up. Brady's New way of simply B2, 242, F12 works really well. There's no Ice in it but you get more Damage than the 11 Ice Ball and it's Consistent with a Guaranteed Set Up.

At least the double B2 BnB combo is Consistent on Males once you get the timing down, the faster D1 makes it even easier.

I've only had a few games in at the moment with the New Patch but Grandmaster is still Awesome, fun as hell and I'm loving being able to do higher Damage Shatters Now thanks to the recovery of burst being quicker.

Now to deal with Aftershock Tremor...

B2 242 f12 or even if you get double b2 just d1 d1 f12. Simple and efficient

The new grandmaster is amazing. The f12 knockdown working anywhere in the screen really helps and his shatter combos work on everyone now. He's a lot of fun

 

[RM Ree]

I was also wondering about EX Clone Shatters in females, they work in Practice but I've Never tried them in the field. Maybe it is worth the bar for at least 5% or more plus another set up.

Ex clone shatter, as in you place the clone mid combo? Or you burn the bar on ex frost bomb for a higher launch?

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Mind sharing the combos? I usually just go for s1 f12. For a 37-40%

Also how consistent is it?

Off of b2: 24 xx shatter, f12

Off of anything into shatter, d1, f12

Impossible to drop.

 

[hkriderz]

Off of b2: 24 xx shatter, f12

Off of anything into shatter, d1, f12

Impossible to drop.

Oh when you said reclone I though you said like reclone capture them off the juggle. Like we do for males

But yeah those are the combos i do too.

 

[hkriderz]

You do an EX Clone instead of a Normal Clone after the Shatter like you would in a regular Clone Male Shatter.

So on Females after Shatter it would be: 1,11 EX Clone Instead of 1,11 Clone.

Does 5% for bar on a semi-consistent combo seem worth it? Lol

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Oh when you said reclone I though you said like reclone capture them off the juggle. Like we do for males

But yeah those are the combosI do too.

Oh yeah of course. The combos are the same except on female you can't b12 clone after the d1. Same rule applies for regular b2 b2 juggles.

It's so stupid easy for better damage now lmao

 

[Youphemism]

I've been messing about with Cryo and can't handle the swag and yet optimal damage I've found with this combo midscreen:

F122, short walk back B2, F122, shortest run cancel you've ever done in your life~123~slide = 33%

 

[kencheese]

I've been messing about with Cryo and can't handle the swag and yet optimal damage I've found with this combo midscreen:

F122, short walk back B2, F122, shortest run cancel you've ever done in your life~123~slide = 33%

Nice kombo, going to practice it, I will use f33xxbf4 instead, easier for me to execute, I really miss his cold blooded cancels, they should have left his CB'ed alone, dont like the tick throw at all, hoping they would have given him faster ice balls and faster d2 and faster d1(which they did do), and I would be fine with it.

 

[Tanno]

I've been messing about with Cryo and can't handle the swag and yet optimal damage I've found with this combo midscreen:

F122, short walk back B2, F122, shortest run cancel you've ever done in your life~123~slide = 33%

Since Cryo's Polar Puncture is a special canceable attack, try this kombo, if it works. Too tired to try this. tomorrow, I'll try this combo on my own to see if it works:

The "~" is the RUN input.

F122, B2, F122~1, B12xxPPxxHammer. This should pack around 36%+

 

[Youphemism]

Since Cryo's Polar Puncture is a special canceable attack, try this kombo, if it works. Too tired to try this. tomorrow, I'll try this combo on my own to see if it works:

The "~" is the RUN input.

F122, B2, F122~1, B12xxPPxxHammer. This should pack around 36%+

Wayyy too much gravity to do a B12 after the second F122

 

[Tanno]

Wayyy too much gravity to do a B12 after the second F122

I took the trouble to lab this kombo. Try this one.

JIP, B12xxIceball, JIP, F122, F122, B12xxPPxxHammer. This packs 34%.

I kept failing on the PP till I had to get used to this. Gradually doing physiotherapy on my thumb to get it back in action as soon as possible. I have many people waiting for me.

 

[Boss Savage]

Not sure if anyone posted this already.

I modified one of Unbreakable's meterlese combos off of the B12 string that does 1% less than the original. But is a bit easier to execute.

Original:
B12, Aura, B12, Ice ball, JIP1, 242, Run, 123, Slide = 31%

Modified:
B12, Ice ball, JIP1, B12, Aura, 242, Run, 123, Slide = 30%

Connecting 242 after Aura is easier than B12, so it's a nice little compromise until I get Aura into B12 more consistently.

I really fucking wish Aura into B12 was as easy as 242. I guess I'll keep hammering it out until it's just second nature. Right now I just feel like not being able to do Aura into B12 is the only thing really holding me back from properly using and enjoying UB.

 

[Tanno]

Not sure if anyone posted this already.

I modified one of Unbreakable's meterlese combos off of the B12 string that does 1% less than the original. But is a bit easier to execute.

Original:
B12, Aura, B12, Ice ball, JIP1, 242, Run, 123, Slide = 31%

Modified:
B12, Ice ball, JIP1, B12, Aura, 242, Run, 123, Slide = 30%

Connecting 242 after Aura is easier than B12, so it's a nice little compromise until I get Aura into B12 more consistently.

I really fucking wish Aura into B12 was as easy as 242. I guess I'll keep hammering it out until it's just second nature. Right now I just feel like not being able to do Aura into B12 is the only thing really holding me back from properly using and enjoying UB.

Welcome to ours Klub for the tight links.

To time it down, the right cue is the monitor being trembled (meaning where Sub Zero does the Ice Stance for the Aura). This is where you'll have to do the B12 almost exactly at the same time. It's a bit tighter than 242.

Good luck.

 

[Lokheit]

I've been messing about with Cryo and can't handle the swag and yet optimal damage I've found with this combo midscreen:

F122, short walk back B2, F122, shortest run cancel you've ever done in your life~123~slide = 33%

Instead of the short run cancel into 123 you can actually B12xxPP from that combo (if you mean doing the reverse direction B2). Extra swag and extra damage!

I have zero confidence on doing the reverse B2 during actual games because if it doesn't launch backwards I'm dropping the whole thing, but @Gilbagz is an expert on that technique.

 

[Boss Savage]

Welcome to ours Klub for the tight links.

To time it down, the right cue is the monitor being trembled (meaning where Sub Zero does the Ice Stance for the Aura). This is where you'll have to do the B12 almost exactly at the same time. It's a bit tighter than 242.

Good luck.

Holy shit that made things way more consistent! I mean the string is still a bitch. But it's definitely more manageable now. Fucking A dude, thanks!

I just wish NRS would do a QOL buff and remove 1 frame off of Aura's recovery so B12 would be more consistent. Maybe next patch

 

[Tanno]

Holy shit that made things way more consistent! I mean the string is still a bitch. But it's definitely more manageable now. Fucking A dude, thanks!

I just wish NRS would do a QOL buff and remove 1 frame off of Aura's recovery so B12 would be more consistent. Maybe next patch

You'll get often fails, but somehow you'll get used to dis in the end. Even without playing him for a while, I still get this tight link spot on. Why? I was in a helluvah of labbing and training on him. It's a matter of muscle memory for this one.

 

[rubmytaco]

I'm having a really tough time dealing with characters who have strong jump attacks and general air game, like Ermac and Tanya. Another big one is Smoke' njp. How are you all dealing with this? Frost bomb used to be the solution, but that obviously won't help at all now.