Supergirl Match-up Discussion

[Crimson Panther]

I believe it's time we start talking match-ups. Give your opinions and if you post numbers please include reasons.

@CrimsonShadow @Juggs

 

[Juggs]

I don't like posting numbers. Like they are completely arbitrary to me. I think people get too focused on the numbers instead of the matchup itself. I can list characters I've struggled with though.



- Black Adam

Bladam can really bully SG. He never has to worry about much in the MU. She can't really space him out and divekick owns her footsies. She has trouble keeping him out but it really doesn't matter because he's fine facing her full screen anyway. Basically at nearly every position on the screen he has strong options, and SG's mobility is limited. Which for SG that's her best asset.


- Aquaman

I think this MU is simply a great character vs a mid tier character (inb4 the hater riot at me saying she's mid tier). You can't pressure AM and her jump in mixups get bodied by his D2 and excellent defense. When he's pressuring, since most of what he does is plus, you just have to hold it.


- Flash

Have really only played Zyphox's Flash and it was laggy (my connection). But it's hard for SG to keep him out or zone at all. He can close the distance easily and spacing opponents out is a strong gameplan of hers. Once he gets in it's very difficult to get him off of you. Her wakeup is easily baited and some stuff Flash does beats her wakeup. I'll have to lab this MU more though. All these MU impressions are a WIP as it's still early.


- Firestorm

Again only played one good FS, Jon Nitti's. He outzones her, full screen FS definitely has the advantage. It's hard to utilize her mobility as well. His fast low projectile prevents you from easily approaching by ground. And his fire psycho crusher special prevents you from easily approaching by air, as he can do it in the air too and on reaction. I'll have to lab this more.

 

[DubiousShenron]

@Juggs what do you think about Supergirl v Fate? Lopsided or even?

 

[Juggs]

@Juggs what do you think about Supergirl v Fate? Lopsided or even?

Never played against Fate. No one has ever used him against me.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Don't have exact numbers for everything, but I'll throw out some early opinions. I'd put Aquaman and Black Adam as 3-7. Aquaman is free to turtle, restrict her movement with the combination of d2 and FTD. He has plus frames where she has negative frames once he's in, and he does a pretty good job of stifling her footsie game if he plays safefly. Tough to trip guard due to the length of the trident, and the trait helps negate some of the meager damage she has, etc.

Black Adam for obvious reasons -- divekick means she can't make full use of her zoning and mobility, plus frames and lots of chip in close. Massive damage.

Atrocitus as losing (not sure how bad). His best strategy is to turtle, taking negligible chip from lasers, pop trait, and then come in and go ham. Risk/reward is usually in his favor due to her low damage. He always has meter around, while she's forced to spend hers frequently due to her lack of meterless damage and need to spend bar to stay safe. This is a problem against Atrocitus as you need meter for pushblocking, MB b3 to punish blocked puddle when trait out, etc. Good luck ever winning a clash here

Dr. Fate 4-6. She takes chip and occasional projectile damage getting in, but doesn't have the dmg of her own to make it count once she's in. The footsies seem pretty even, but he wins the zoning, so the MU isn't bad but is tilted in his favor.

CatWoman 4-6. She can stand up and full combo in any of SG's gaps, or d1 into whatever. Her j2 helps control the air space, making it hard for SG to stay mobile. Her good staggers make it tough for SG to compete in close. Block SG's pressure and then go ham.

Flash I think may be 5-5. Has to be played carefully though as he's still Flash and can add up damage quickly. But she wins the neutral and can harass him with air->ground laser if he tries to get in with RMS. Best played as a game of keep-away, punishing him for trying to get in.

Captain Cold is good for her. She outfootsies him, can counterzone in time to block his slow projectile, can AA him with ease, and can harass him with air dash when he attempts to set anything up. Feels like she controls the pace of this MU from most ranges.

I feel she loses to Batman for similar reasons to Atrocitus -- it's easy for him to play the turtle game against until he has trait, at which point he can easily disrupt her offense, force her to hold his pressure, and punish much harder than she can.

Cheetah feels relatively even. It might be slightly in Supergirl's favor. SG does a good job of patrolling the airspace with laser, her j1 and d2, which means that cheetah has to be patient. Cheetah doesn't really have an equivalent of b12. The flipside is that cheetah wreaks havoc on her gaps which makes life tougher.

Joker I think she wins handily. Can match gunshot with laser, better footsies, good air-to-air, and the mobility is an issue for him.

Canary I feel she loses to (maybe 4-6?) Much better damage, better mixup. Will stand up and full punish gaps into potential resets. Canary's movement is the reason she doesn't win it more easily, but patience is the name if the game, and she builds L3 trait quickly enough if SG is attempting to stay back and zone.

Superman I feel is 4-6. Better meterless (due to his free launcher) and 1- bar damage, better guessing game on block. Better wakeup, staggers (mixed with throw which perfectly spaces him for meaty pressure). F23 bodies airborne opponents, while he can jump b12. Better/more usable f3 and MB b3. Better backdash. Having to spend that bar every time on block is a problem for her in this MU.

Deadshot I feel is a very close 4-6. The reason being that once you're in, she doesn't hit hard enough to really make up for what she potentially loses getting in. Airdash and air laser are both useful in this mu, but at the end of the day, it seems like he controls the pace. Seems very manageable but slight advantage Deadshot.

Blue Beetle I feel she wins. Her mobility is a problem for him, and that little pause after float makes him easy to antiair. She can sneak in trades with his projectile. She whiff punishes his footsie options relentlessly with b12. I don't feel he has much to threaten her in this MU other than solid damage from bounce cancel with a couple of bars.

Red Hood -- feels even. Lasers are good in this MU, air dash very useful. He has to be careful in the neutral to avoid being whiff punished. Her mobility makes his ground mines less useful. Would not be surprised if it ends up being 5-5.

 

[Juggs]

I think she does well against Superman, at least if he's not in your face. Fullscreen she has full control, he can't really do anything unless you're out of Trait meter. His air laser is beat free on reaction with SG's air laser. Haven't been able to fully lab or grind this MU though. I just know he can't play his same zoning game against Supergirl

 

[Superman64]

From The match up experience i have

Cheetah- I think its even or supergirl barely wins. Supergirl can control the air space very well with j1, d2, lasers. Once cheetah gets in its like alot of cheetah match up and her damage is ridiculous especially if you let her get trait on when she finally gets in your 2 chombos wont equal 1 of hers

Green Arrow- I think she wins. Green Arrow cant really keep her out like other match ups the combination of laser and float makes it dificult to play his gameplan in my opinion.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I think she does well against Superman, at least if he's not in your face. Fullscreen she has full control, he can't really do anything unless you're out of Trait meter. His air laser is beat free on reaction with SG's air laser. Haven't been able to fully lab or grind this MU though. I just know he can't play his same zoning game against Supergirl

There's really no reason for him to try to zone Supergirl out (especially not with air lasers) -- he should be pressuring her.

 

[Juggs]

There's really no reason for him to try to zone Supergirl out -- he should be pressuring her.

And you can take advantage of that.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

And you can take advantage of that.

There's nothing really to take advantage of there. He does what you do once he's in, except better and with additional damage/options. You shouldn't be wrecking him with trait if he's not randomly spamming lasers.

 

[Juggs]

There's nothing really to take advantage of there. He does what you do once he's in, except better and with additional damage/options. You shouldn't be wrecking him with trait if he's not randomly spamming lasers.

Yes, you take advantage of the fact that he has to come to you. He has to change his normal gameplan and sacrifice his meter building and chip to make his way in. Once he's in you aren't optionless either. I don't see it as a bad MU. He's just a better character.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Yes, you take advantage of the fact that he has to come to you. He has to change his normal gameplan and sacrifice his meter building and chip to make his way in. Once he's in you aren't optionless either. I don't see it as a bad MU. He's just a better character.

I don't see a case for him not winning the MU. The last thing he's afraid of is moving in on SG when it's what he does as a character.

You're not going to deter him very much on the way in as it doesn't take him long to get there and your projectile is a high. If you're waiting for him to air laser/air dash, then you need to be measured about the zoning anyway.

 

[Espio]

@CrimsonShadow it appears I'm gonna have to play you.

 

[B. Shazzy]

if there are any supergirl players that think the Superman matchup is 5-5 I wanna play them

zero chance its 5-5

 

[The_Tile]

Again only played one good FS, Jon Nitti's. He outzones her, full screen FS definitely has the advantage. It's hard to utilize her mobility as well. His fast low projectile prevents you from easily approaching by ground. And his fire psycho crusher special prevents you from easily approaching by air, as he can do it in the air too and on reaction. I'll have to lab this more.

I feel like this MU is a 5-5. All she has to do is walk her way to mid screen and Firestorm can't zone her properly as she can use a lot of air lasers and Firestorms air control is pretty bad so he has a hard time dealing with it. After you've established that game you can mix it up with air dashes in to get your turn started.

Firestorm can do air charge in reaction to you jumping but it's mostly a read as if you empty jump or air dash to change your jump arc the charge will whiff a lot and you can dash and punish on the other side. It's not something you should be letting Firestorm get away with as it's the only option he has against her air mobility and it's not exactly difficult to punish.

She beats him in the footsie game and mid range but he has a better rush down game due to his mixups and restand. Just outside of full screen though she can teleprompter on a read to punish the molten trap and sometimes the fireball but you have to do it really early to beat out the latter.

Overall I'd say it's a 5-5 or ever so slightly in Firestorms favour but not quite enough to warrant a 6-4. They both have options to check each other in the neutral so it all comes down to mind games and who has the better neutral imo

 

[JDE]

Cheetah 5-5
Batman 5-5*
Robin 6-4
Ivy 6-4
Blue Beetle* 5-5
Black Adam 4-6 I have it 4-6 instead of 3-7 since you knock him down he really has no reversal.


Superman I'm tempted say it's even for now but I need to play it more.

Canary feels like a 5-5.* One keeps out, the other moves in. Canary has a lot of damage potential, but she has to hit you. Maybe that's just how I was brought up. Not sure how you guys are gauging. Could be different how you do it.

Grodd 6-4
Wonder Woman 5-5
Firestorm 5-5
Flash 6-4

That's who I have exp against so far. Edit: Dr. Fate doesn't feel like a struggle either honestly

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Black Adam 4-6 I have it 4-6 instead of 3-7 since you knock him down he really has no reversal.

This is true against the entire cast, and doesn't stop him from dominating matchups. Plus, he's going to laugh at the 30% damage even if you do manage to make something happen on oki.

Canary feels like a 5-5.* One keeps out, the other moves in. Canary has a lot of damage potential, but she has to hit you. Maybe that's just how I was brought up. Not sure how you guys are gauging. Could be different how you do it.

You can't really keep Canary out in this MU. If you're attempting to zone, she'll play patiently and build L3 trait, at which point you can no longer just throw out lasers. Once close her jump-in is a bit of a guessing game due to that that Canary Drop cancel, and she definitely has the tools to land a hit. But even if she just blocks, she's free to go ham after b12. SG doing anything with a gap is loss of half a life bar, and once you're negative her mixup begins.

After she lands a hit, then you're into the usual mix/guessing game shenanigans.

 

[JDE]

This is true against the entire cast, and doesn't stop him from dominating matchups. Plus, he's going to laugh at the 30% damage even if you do manage to make something happen on oki.


You can't really keep Canary out in this MU. If you're attempting to zone, she'll play patiently and build L3 trait, at which point you can no longer just throw out lasers. Once close her jump-in is a bit of a guessing game due to that that Canary Drop cancel, and she definitely has the tools to land a hit. But even if she just blocks, she's free to go ham after b12. SG doing anything with a gap is loss of half a life bar, and once you're negative her mixup begins.

After she lands a hit, then you're into the usual mix/guessing game shenanigans.

You can keep her out with breath, too not just b12. I'm sure that you would probably say that f2 isn't a good choice, but it is good to use to catch them. I'm also going by the logic of blocking her trait, too. Black Canary's best button in neutral is her b1 because it ducks under projectiles & she can hit confirm afterwards. Even Canary players themselves will tell you. For her air knees, I usually dash forward & avoid them all together & shoot a laser afterwards or f2 as a punish.

Maybe it's just me. Maybe I need to play another Canary player. :/

 

[CrimsonShadow]

You can keep her out with breath, too not just b12. I'm sure that you would probably say that f2 isn't a good choice, but it is good to use to catch them. I'm also going by the logic of blocking her trait, too. Black Canary's best button in neutral is her b1 because it ducks under projectiles & she can hit confirm afterwards. Even Canary players themselves will tell you. For her air knees, I usually dash forward & avoid them all together.

Maybe it's just me. Maybe I need to play another Canary player. :/

The point was, if you are waiting to block trait, she's coming in, because she knows the risk/reward is strongly in her favor at that point. Breath is definitely not going to keep her out, and will likely get you blown up by L3 scream and jump~canary drop.

So it becomes a game of footsies vs. footsie-range gimmicks and Scream; but this notion of just keeping her out to win isn't valid.

But yeah, play SaltFace or someone around that level if you have Q's.

 

[Juggs]

if there are any supergirl players that think the Superman matchup is 5-5 I wanna play them

zero chance its 5-5

Okay, play me. It won't prove the MU at all but it would be fun and good training for the MU.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Okay, play me. It won't prove the MU at all but it would be fun and good training for the MU.

im retired bro

 

[Juggs]

im retired bro

So are you saying you don't play the game anymore or what? lul

 

[B. Shazzy]

So are you saying you don't play the game anymore or what? lul

pretty much bro everyone is superfree lul gonna give everyone a chance to catch up

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

Y'all believe supergirl and am is 3-7? I think it's 5-5, her lasers can punish his ftd and she can check him on everything with b1 or d1. She can lame him out for the win. This is just my exp tho

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Y'all believe supergirl and am is 3-7? I think it's 5-5, her lasers can punish his ftd and she can check him on everything with b1 or d1. She can lame him out for the win. This is just my exp tho

Lasers punish FTD only in a certain range, but he doesn't have a need to keep throwing FTD out unless you're trying to zone. If FTD hits, it will do a lot more damage than a laser will.

D2 wrecks airdash, and b123 in footsie range is more economical than anything Supergirl has, due to spending no meter until hitconfirm. While she's spending a bar to stay safe on block. he's either plus for free or chipping you with trident rush. You can't "check him on everything" because his footsie string is plus, unless you like eating d1~trident rushes.

In addition, if he hits you he's doing a lot more damage. I don't think there's any question that he decisively wins the matchup. Most AM players agree.