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Suggested Nerfs without destroying the character?

What should be nerfed about Catwoman?

  • Nothing, leave Selina alone, she already had enough nerfs

    Votes: 13 17.6%
  • B3 arc should change

    Votes: 26 35.1%
  • B3 more negative on block

    Votes: 28 37.8%
  • 33b2 should be punishable

    Votes: 11 14.9%
  • 1f2 negative on block

    Votes: 27 36.5%
  • All of them, I hate this bi*ch

    Votes: 26 35.1%

  • Total voters
    74
Because well on paper that move should be punished everytime so you wouldn't have to be throwing it out a lot, the window to punish is just too tiny. It's more like a qol change for everyone, wouldn't mean anything to her if you ask me.
but it would it means bigger punishes for characters who dont have fast big punishes. def a nerf not to say i dont want it.
 

Tweedy

Noob
B3 shouldn't low profile at all or should be made 30-32 frames imo.

I know Catwoman players are gonna be like WHOA THAT'S TOO CRAZY, but just compare to the rest of the cast. We're talking about balance after all.
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
B3 shouldn't low profile at all or should be made 30-32 frames imo.

I know Catwoman players are gonna be like WHOA THAT'S TOO CRAZY, but just compare to the rest of the cast. We're talking about balance after all.
Honestly I just think that nerf would make the Superman, Swamp Thing, Adam, Hellboy and any character that gets a big or important part of their moves low profiles and she beats all of them so it would just make the MU easier.
It wouldn't hurt her as a character since B3 is not even a big deal in some match-ups other than the ones I mentioned.
For example... it wouldn't change the Supergirl, Batman, Harley, Wonder Woman, etc... match-ups at all so I don't see why they wouldn't nerf it.
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
but it would it means bigger punishes for characters who dont have fast big punishes. def a nerf not to say i dont want it.
Well, maybe... I personally see that as a qol change but I do think it's needed because some characters can barely punish it.
I would kinda compared to when King Lao's teleport was changed to attract his opponent on block so it was easy to punish by everyone
 

Wigy

There it is...
Its just really unsatisfying playing against catwoman.

I shouldnt get punished for her disrespecting everything, its never your turn and why does her grab have more range than some grapplers. The fuck.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
definitely not trolling, you have many options against her lunge, thats the only way shes starting something against the joker because she has no neutral
You're forgetting joker has no neutral either. Every option joker has vs lunge he has to commit to and lunge is not the only way she can get anything started vs joker lol the MU isn't just about her lunge.

Up close she absolutely destroys joker both in damage and on knockdown. More then half of jokers moveset whiffs on cheetah making it very hard to start an offense up close period, outside of making a read.

I'll give you a few examples:

You read her going for a d1 and neutral j2 to either whiff punish or get her to block, the j2 whiffs her and she whiff punishes you which leads to dumb damage or pressure. Jokers standing 2 whiffs on cheetah half the time and has no range so she can d1 challenge if they know this.

She has ways to open joker up in neutral and blow him up on wake up (yes jokers new wake up can be low profiled by her d3) or just stuffed by her mb f3 for dumb damage or even just neutral jump him so joker needs to respect her when he's knocked down.

While cheetahs on knockdown, joker has to respect her wake up (primal rage is it?), due to it being a fast multi hit wake up that eats jokers mb f/b3 and can be difficult to stuff depending on if she delays her wake up and he can parry her wake up but if she sees that coming there's a blow up lmao so again he has to make a read.

Cheetahs mix of short and long range lunges can actually be used to her advantage because jokers options to stop her for lunging require him to commit to it, meaning she can get him to whiff the option and she can go in for a whiff punish or start to apply pressure.

Here's some examples:

Jokers high canister is useful if she's max screen away and hasn't lunged yet and is just getting in the stance. If she's already lunged he's getting stuffed. If she sees high canister coming(which isn't hard because it's slow af), she can just dash forward and block it if it hits her and joker will have to mb it because it's negative af.

Jokers d2 has range but can get stuffed by her dive bomb or even her jump attacks due to the fact that it's not super fast and I believe is only active for 4 frames with 27 frames recovery. That's a tight window to challenge a relatively fast move.

Jokers j1 can stop her unless she does a j1 or 3 preemptively, then they will trade in her favor because she will be close to him.

Gunshot can check her forward advancement for 1 or 2 of her dash ins and then joker will have to play in neutral with d2 which is stupid unsafe so if he gets her to block d2 he will have to cancel it into either deathspin(-7 on block), crowbar (-9 on block), rolling can(idk why any joker would do this, she can neutral jump it on reaction and f*** him up), or gun dash cancel away (which his dash isn't the greatest and he doesn't want to get cornered by cheetah. All of these options essentially give up his turn.

And finally if she gets one combo and I mean ONE COMBO, all she has to do is run away and wait for him to come to her by playing a reactionary game and with jokers absolute lack of damage, neutral and overall way of opening someone up, this becomes an uphill battle for joker.

I mean I'm not saying this is unwinnable. This is a standard 6-4. Joker has a chance for sure if hes paying attention and making conscious reads and good choices, but overall, most situations are in her favor.

I do not see how this MU is 5-5 but hey we all have our own opinion lol
 
I remember in I1 when she had armor on catdash, crazy unclashable damage with f3, an even better b3, unreactable 50/50s, an even better j2 ON TOP of the things she has now including the staggers, the trait, the damage, etc and I don’t remember any of this crying back then

Only thing new she really got in this game was b2 and walkspeed

If this is “broken” or “op” to you guys, then y’all really need to re-evaluate the definition. You guys are crying just to cry
good old memories xD
her d1 was +1 on block
F1 was and +3 on block overhead
She has a meterless safe launcher than can combo of any string she has into big damage.
wake up trait was fully invincible and safe on block
jump 2 was much easier to hit confirm into full combo
32% meterless unclashable
background bounce combo can be up to 45% meterless
she has some 70-80% combo with unblockable interactable setups
she was still low tier in that game
...
I agree with other people though. You can't make comparison here because of these two games are different
 

Jinxx

9 Lives
Catwoman to me only needs these changes
-1f2 to not hit overhead
-b3 low pro to be fixed, so that mu's like superman aren't so unfair
-d2 low pro fixed
-little less dmg overall
-mb catdash from fullscreen to be -12
 
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RTM2004

Revenant Jade
I remember in I1 when she had armor on catdash, crazy unclashable damage with f3, an even better b3, unreactable 50/50s, an even better j2 ON TOP of the things she has now including the staggers, the trait, the damage, etc and I don’t remember any of this crying back then

Only thing new she really got in this game was b2 and walkspeed
You forgot few major important things from I1 Catwoman weaknesses compared to I2 Catwoman issues "fixed"

#1 - I1 Catwoman had no invincible wake up option at all. She has to earn a scratch to wake up. I2 Catwoman has a fully invincible wake up "Rising Cat Claws". Unlike I1 Catwoman, this new I2 Catwoman has this wake up option at her own risk but it has the purpose of giving her an option to get up. When I1 Catwoman gets knocked down at the start of the match, it's game over and there is nothing she can do. Look at what happened when Bane got the first hit with his D1 and then destroys her on knockdown. Improvement

#2 - I1 Catwoman Low Whip was -35 real negative on block. That was her other option at the time to help her get in due to her horrible slow walkspeed, whiff B3, unsafe regular Cat Dash, MB Cat Dash if she got meter. If she is lucky and tripped her opponent, it's her 50/50 mix up game. Now if her opponent blocks her Low Whip, she gets punished and is at the mercy of her opponent on knockdown. I2 Catwoman Low Whip is -14 I believe so it's completely safe on block. This is huge because I2 Catwoman now has a better fast walkspeed, safe Low Whip, J2 and a stronger B3 to top it. Improvement

#3 - Believe it or not, I2 Catwoman's B3 is greater than it was in I1 Catwoman B3. I2 B3 still low profiles, -3 on block and it has a huge collision hurtbox, much larger arc radius. I1 Catwoman couldn't use it the same way in that game than how she uses B3 for I2 now. It's very abusive now. If you watch historical tournament matches of Catwoman I1 B3, watching top high level players (GGA Max, GGA Team Members, WoundCowboy, Theo, Whiteboi, Blind Ducky, those leagues of players who know the Catwoman MU to the dot) workaround her B3 effortlessly, she can't just throw out B3 without consequence on how she does now. Improvement

I fully agree with you that some of the tools I1 Catwoman had back then were really icy good: F3 overhead, unclashable damage, armored Cat Dash, safe Cat Claws, +1 on block Cat Stance~Cartwheel which she no longer has for I2. Off the top, her number one issue I1 in that game was her "mobility" which has been more than compensated for this time around.

Now I don't want the public to destroy I2 Catwoman like how they did MKX Tanya real dirty LOL

If they need to address anything, it could be her B3 properties to be like -5 on block but NRS will decide it
 

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
This is how I would nerf her:
- 1F2 is now -5 on block or keep it +2 but make it a mid.

All these nerfs do is make the match-up easier for most of the cast which she beats and maybe give her a few more than 1 losing match-ups.

She would still be a great character but right now she is a bit unfair.

EDIT: this is not a nerf but make MB catdash very punisheable at any range.
The 1F2 you presented sounds fair. It's crazy how you see MB Cat Dash unpunished or the opponent didn't react fast enough to punish it. It reminds of MK9 Reptile Dash, it was 6f start up and -15 on block (not everyone could punish it like Sheeva, Skarlet etc) I'm glad Reversals were created later on in NRS games.

I2 Catwoman is a very strong character since Day 1.

Supergirl is another problem that needs to get addressed too
 
Lower meterless damage. And maybe make a bigger gap in j2 into a button so I'm not holding pressure from a jump in from a galaxy far far away.
 

SeasonedGeisha

Make Harley Consistent 2k18
Tbh:
-1F2 is now -1 on block
-MB BF2 is now 4 frames more negative
-33B2 is now -5
-B2 is now 13 frames and -2 on block
-4 now deals more damage individually, but scales the same.
-B3 is now -5 on block and low profiles at frame 7.
* I believe that these changes will significantly reduce her annoyingly opressive playstyle, while keeping her true to the character.