SUB-ZERO [TEMPORARY] FRAME DATA

[Darth Mao]

Information can change until the game's launch, all movements listed can be accessed by all standard variations.

May Lord Brady bless our path. The death of Ice Clone will not be in vain

 

[Scott The Scot]

Oh yeah... This is what really tickles my pickle.

 

[M.D.]

Sooo, basically pretty much nothing is punishable.

Maybe this is the direction for everyone, all safe strings so you just back and forth with strings in neutral.

This or Cage frame data appears and -17 -14 -22 so I can buy a one way ticket to NRS and dfgdfsG#(E$%HG(#$%YG($HY

 

[BurdaA]

So D1 punishable on block? If so, anyone know if that is that a common thing across chars?

 

[Samsara]

Crouching attacks appear to be more unsafe than before, but I do believe you can special cancel from them.

All things considered, he has much better strings and normals this time around, more utility. F4 seems to be a big advancing boot kick that leads to a knockdown. Could probably blow ppl up with that.

Not gimped by the clone anymore.

 

[trufenix]

TYM IS BACK BABY

 

[DDutchguy]

This is neat, but we probably can't gather anything from this as the game is still in development and the build that was shown off was relatively old (or so I heard at least). Characters like Injustice 2 Raiden also had different frame data from when he was accidentally playable on the Xbox, as opposed to the planned release.

 

[Samsara]

He looks quite slow though string-wise. Lot of wind-up but maybe that compensates for the range?

How many other characters are like this?

 

[UsedForGlue]

His

Sooo, basically pretty much nothing is punishable.

Maybe this is the direction for everyone, all safe strings so you just back and forth with strings in neutral.

This or Cage frame data appears and -17 -14 -22 so I can buy a one way ticket to NRS and dfgdfsG#(E$%HG(#$%YG($HY

F24 is mad punishable. But, it ends in an overhead, so you either keep it safe with his DB3 or DF3 which is a low (can’t remember the input), and then keep that super safe by enhancing it.

But knock downs seem super important, but you can be heavily punished with the right crushing blow combo if the overhead is blocked.

 

[UsedForGlue]

He looks quite slow though string-wise. Lot of wind-up but maybe that compensates for the range?

How many other characters are like this?

Everyone I seen on the day had a similar b1 advancing normal at sound 13-15

 

[Samsara]

Everyone I seen on the day had a similar b1 advancing normal at sound 13-15

It's cool to see you around again

 

[ChaosTheory]

For wake-ups, it's u2 that anti-airs and u3 that is grounded, right?

So the idea is you can only punish u3 if you read and commit to neutral jump?

 

[Darth Mao]

For wake-ups, it's u2 that anti-airs and u3 that is grounded, right?

So the idea is you can only punish u3 if you read and commit to neutral jump?

Yes and yes

 

[UsedForGlue]

UPDATE: on F24 and his "MIX UP" potential.

Even though in the trailer, Sub can cancel his F24 on the last hit, Mustard couldn't do it, and I can't confirm either as I never tried it with the limited time I had.

But, F24 is still really punishable. Im not sure if anyone will get hit by the last hit (OH) the longer we go into the game as it can't be cancelled into slide or the low ice move, so you will have to F2 Low Ice or Amplified Ice Ball.

In general, as its stands currently, you should default to a low block on sub always, and react to the 19 FRAMES of his Overhead, then go low (To stop OH into Slide or Low Ice) then high again to block the OH of the last hit of the string.

In theory, he should be easy enough to block with MU experience.

If people mention he is a "mix up" character too much on TYM, I might make a thread explaining the default blocking position you should have against him and hopefully people won't overreact.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Yes and yes

There are 2.5/3 ways to punish them.

1. NJP

2. Read it, space them out, depending on the knockdown and the type of WU animation, and whiff punish.

3. Possibly the most baller and in depth way is to read it, flawless block it, and reversal it with your own U2.

 

[Darth Mao]

There are 2.5/3 ways to punish them.

1. NJP

2. Read it, space them out, depending on the knockdown and the type of WU animation, and whiff punish.

3. Possibly the most baller and in depth way is to read it, flawless block it, and reversal it with your own U2.

Nice, thanks for the information. Did NJP works against u2?

 

[BecomingDeath13]

Did anyone catch the start up for the ice ball? I just wanna compare it to the startup on mkx

 

[TheJaquio]

So D1 punishable on block? If so, anyone know if that is that a common thing across chars?

I wanna say this was par for the course in MKX, but I never got really into MKX so I'm not 100%

However, the thing to remember is that his D1 comes out in 6 frames, so the total turnaround to when block disadvantage ends is 15 frames. Assuming the fastest moves in the game are 6 frames, to punish it a person would have to react to the D1 and hit their own buttons within 9 frames, which is pretty much impossible. It would only get punished on prediction.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

I wanna say this was par for the course in MKX, but I never got really into MKX so I'm not 100%

However, the thing to remember is that his D1 comes out in 6 frames, so the total turnaround to when block disadvantage ends is 15 frames. Assuming the fastest moves in the game are 6 frames, to punish it a person would have to react to the D1 and hit their own buttons within 9 frames, which is pretty much impossible. It would only get punished on prediction.

Most pokes in MKX were safe, some were even like -3 or so. Only like 3 or 4 characters had unsafe pokes off the top of my head.
Also about punishing, with a long enough duration for the entire move (startup to active to blockstun to the actual disadvantage) it can easily be punished by d1s. The 9f of block disadvantage only occurs after the X amount of blockstun frames which should give a decent amount of time to react.

 

[ChaosTheory]

There are 2.5/3 ways to punish them.

1. NJP

2. Read it, space them out, depending on the knockdown and the type of WU animation, and whiff punish.

3. Possibly the most baller and in depth way is to read it, flawless block it, and reversal it with your own U2.

Thanks. Did anybody test the quick-hop against the wake-up?

 

[BurdaA]

I wanna say this was par for the course in MKX, but I never got really into MKX so I'm not 100%

However, the thing to remember is that his D1 comes out in 6 frames, so the total turnaround to when block disadvantage ends is 15 frames. Assuming the fastest moves in the game are 6 frames, to punish it a person would have to react to the D1 and hit their own buttons within 9 frames, which is pretty much impossible. It would only get punished on prediction.

I think you’d often be right, but as @SonicNinja3532 says above mkx: dgaf. My question was indirectly asking if the mkx d1,d1 mash on block was (seemingly) removed game-wide. If so, coolsies

 

[trufenix]

guys, the in game numbers are ALWAYS wrong before day 1 patch.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Nice, thanks for the information. Did NJP works against u2?

U2 will beat an NJP, but an NJP will beat an U3 armoured wake up. But, opponents can always roll back, or forward too...

You can throw the roll forward.

 

[Imperium]

Does anybody have the data for his special attacks?

 

[xQUANTUMx]

UPDATE: on F24 and his "MIX UP" potential.

Even though in the trailer, Sub can cancel his F24 on the last hit, Mustard couldn't do it, and I can't confirm either as I never tried it with the limited time I had.

But, F24 is still really punishable. Im not sure if anyone will get hit by the last hit (OH) the longer we go into the game as it can't be cancelled into slide or the low ice move, so you will have to F2 Low Ice or Amplified Ice Ball.

In general, as its stands currently, you should default to a low block on sub always, and react to the 19 FRAMES of his Overhead, then go low (To stop OH into Slide or Low Ice) then high again to block the OH of the last hit of the string.

In theory, he should be easy enough to block with MU experience.

If people mention he is a "mix up" character too much on TYM, I might make a thread explaining the default blocking position you should have against him and hopefully people won't overreact.

but Glue, if people just low block us, how are we supposed to open people up?