Guide Sub-Zero official combo/Bnb/punish thread

[xQUANTUMx]

np man. Keep reppin' dat sub wherever you go.

 

[Durango]

So apparently, Johnny Cage is immune to Sub-Zero's ice clone corner prison.

-Can D1 past the clone and hit Sub-Zero's hurtbox, busting the clone and going for an escape
-Can also use D1 to avoid any jump-ins
-D1 can out-reach a 22 combo attempt; he can also bait into a guard and then punish the combo
-Shadow Clone (no EX) when it's propped close enough
-And if he's going for D1, he's ducking without blocking, so attempting a grab is pointless

With all these, you could slide, but that's only if he's not anticipating it. And then what do you do when you're prone to being counterattacked on his wakeup and you can't pop a new clone in time?

 

[Lord Beef]

So apparently, Johnny Cage is immune to Sub-Zero's ice clone corner prison.

-Can D1 past the clone and hit Sub-Zero's hurtbox, busting the clone and going for an escape
-Can also use D1 to avoid any jump-ins
-D1 can out-reach a 22 combo attempt; he can also bait into a guard and then punish the combo
-Shadow Clone (no EX) when it's propped close enough
-And if he's going for D1, he's ducking without blocking, so attempting a grab is pointless

With all these, you could slide, but that's only if he's not anticipating it. And then what do you do when you're prone to being counterattacked on his wakeup and you can't pop a new clone in time?

-Stay out of his D1 range after the clone trap is up.....make a read and go for f4 if you think d1 is coming.
-D1 will NOT out reach the 2nd 2 in 22.

Gotta make reads man. It not a free win in the corner vs anyone. But Johnny cage, especially without meter really has no way out if you play your cards right and play patiently.(Keep in mind, this matchup will very rarely make it to the corner. And if you have the life lead, its not necessary) You don't NEED To be right in their face once the trap is up. Just chill, sit back and watch what they like to do and react accordingly. Use their own tendencies against them rather than allowing them to use yours against you. Subs corner game is risky man. I've always kinda equated it to a vortex in the sense that, you need to make good reads and guess right to keep them there and place them back into the same situation. Otherwise you're getting punished, or they get out and the chase is back on.

Sub vs Cage is EASILY the lamest match in the game, IMO. If you can get cage into the corner, kudos to you. This MU is all spacing and footsies and will more often than not, end up playing out midscreen with cage trying to land a d3 and you trying to d4~clone and lame him out. My keys to the cage match up:

-Run away on even the smallest life lead to frustrate the cage player. Keeping about 1/2 screen distance, the corner should be at the back of your min and is not really priority in the match.
-Slide all force balls on reaction, punish wake ups first to condition them. So you can start cloning after the knock down.
-When he does get in, Interrupt pressure with 22. Not enough subs do this IMO. They go for d4 which is only 1F faster when you could make the same read and get a full combo,(if your hit confirms are godlike) or more chip and a clone setup. d4 will get you out, but if he has the lead, you're then chasing him and it can be an uphill battle. Your goal is to STAY in his head by playing lame and keep your cool.
-Use 214 on block when he has meter. Or bait Ex Nutpunch with 21,block.
-Don't just arbitrarily clone midscreen. Leave it off screen so the threat is always looming when he wants to try and get in.



(also, this should be in matchup discussion )

 

[Durango]

You're a huge help, thanks. I try to go for corner game whenever possible. I've faced some very tough people on here and it seems attempting a midscreen game is suicide.

 

[Desperdicio]

Is there any midscreen meterless combo that causes more damage than 2, 2, Ice Ball, NJP, dash, 1, dash, b1, 2, 2, 1, 2, Slide (32%)?
I mean, not just changing the starter (b1, 2 causes more damage, I think).
Also, which are the most damaging combos with meter and with X on midscreen and on the corner?

 

[Qwark28]

Is there any midscreen meterless combo that causes more damage than 2, 2, Ice Ball, NJP, dash, 1, dash, b1, 2, 2, 1, 2, Slide (32%)?
I mean, not just changing the starter (b1, 2 causes more damage, I think).
Also, which are the most damaging combos with meter and with X on midscreen and on the corner?

Did you even read the first page?

 

[SHAOLIN]

Is there any midscreen meterless combo that causes more damage than 2, 2, Ice Ball, NJP, dash, 1, dash, b1, 2, 2, 1, 2, Slide (32%)?
I mean, not just changing the starter (b1, 2 causes more damage, I think).
Also, which are the most damaging combos with meter and with X on midscreen and on the corner?

MidScreen Meterless(with Jip):
Jip B12 Freeze Jip 214 Slide - 36%

MidScreen 1 bar:
Jip B12 Freeze Jip 214 Ex Slide - 39%

MidScreen X-Ray:

Jip B12 Freeze Jip 214 X-Ray - 53%

Corner Meterless:

Jip 214 Freeze 4 224 Slide - 41%

Corner 1 bar :

Jip 214 Freeze 4 224 Ex Slide - 43%

Corner X-Ray:

Jip 214 Freeze 4 244 X-Ray - 52%


The timing for the 4 in the corner might be diffcult for you at first,but once you get the timing down,it should be much easier on you.

 

[Desperdicio]

Did you even read the first page?

I did. That's when I realized that I knew more damaging midscreen meterless combos.

MidScreen Meterless(with Jip):
Jip B12 Freeze Jip 214 Slide - 36%

MidScreen 1 bar:
Jip B12 Freeze Jip 214 Ex Slide - 39%

MidScreen X-Ray:

Jip B12 Freeze Jip 214 X-Ray - 53%

Corner Meterless:

Jip 214 Freeze 4 224 Slide - 41%

Corner 1 bar :

Jip 214 Freeze 4 224 Ex Slide - 43%

Corner X-Ray:

Jip 214 Freeze 4 244 X-Ray - 52%


The timing for the 4 in the corner might be diffcult for you at first,but once you get the timing down,it should be much easier on you.

The midscreen combos without X-ray are not as damaging as the b1, 2 version of the one I posted with a jip as a starter, thanks anyway. The corner combos are better than the ones I already knew, so thank you very much.

 

[Qwark28]

I did. That's when I realized that I knew more damaging midscreen meterless combos.



The midscreen combos without X-ray are not as damaging as the b1, 2 version of the one I posted with a jip as a starter, thanks anyway. The corner combos are better than the ones I already knew, so thank you very much.

You should NEVER do the combo you posted earlier, the reason the combos in the first post are lower damage is because the B121 ender is better in every way, the guaranteed chip in the end makes up for the damage.

 

[Desperdicio]

You should NEVER do the combo you posted earlier, the reason the combos in the first post are lower damage is because the B121 ender is better in every way, the guaranteed chip in the end makes up for the damage.

I don't entirely understand, yet.
How come that you have guaranteed chip damage at the end of a combo? I thought you could only have chip damage before the first hit confirmed.

 

[Qwark28]

I don't entirely understand, yet.
How come that you have guaranteed chip damage at the end of a combo? I thought you could only have chip damage before the first hit confirmed.

B121 is +30 something, you get a guaranteed blockstring in the end of it or a throw mixup. 212 being guaranteed means you get 5% chip anyway and 33% of a bar.

 

[SHAOLIN]

I did. That's when I realized that I knew more damaging midscreen meterless combos.



The midscreen combos without X-ray are not as damaging as the b1, 2 version of the one I posted with a jip as a starter, thanks anyway. The corner combos are better than the ones I already knew, so thank you very much.

You welcome!

 

[Desperdicio]

B121 is +30 something, you get a guaranteed blockstring in the end of it or a throw mixup. 212 being guaranteed means you get 5% chip anyway and 33% of a bar.

You mean that ending with b121 you don't have knockdown, so you don't have to deal with wake up attacks, plus the opponent doesn't recover in time for anything, so you can add more pressure, right?

 

[Qwark28]

You mean that ending with b121 you don't have knockdown, so you don't have to deal with wake up attacks, plus the opponent doesn't recover in time for anything, so you can add more pressure, right?

Yes.

 

[ChaosTheory]

You mean that ending with b121 you don't have knockdown, so you don't have to deal with wake up attacks, plus the opponent doesn't recover in time for anything, so you can add more pressure, right?

You have to time it. Go to practice and set the AI to auto block. After you land b1,2,1 on the opponent, approach and do standing 2.

If the 2 whiffs, you're too early. If the 2 hits, you're too late. If the AI blocks the 2, you timed it right.

 

[Desperdicio]

Yes.

Thanks a lot for the info, it's really useful.

You have to time it. Go to practice and set the AI to auto block. After you land b1,2,1 on the opponent, approach and do standing 2.

If the 2 whiffs, you're too early. If the 2 hits, you're too late. If the AI blocks the 2, you timed it right.

Good tip. Thanks a bunch!

 

[Mark von Zoftmutter]

What's up with that midscreen carry combo when u can dash 1 like 5 times? I tried practicing it but it's too hard yet. Anyone knows the which combo I'm talking about and how exactly does it look like?
I'd like to know the dmg also so I know whether it's worth the risk of dropping it. I'm pretty advanced sub player by now, I know almost everything, I just wanna learn small and pieces that are still missing.

Also, what's the best way for punishing opponent when they're frozen midscreen in the air but not far from the ground, ex if u freeze kano or mileena in the middle of the roll. I've seen gamerblake doing: (B1)2, 1, 212-slide. Seems that I can't get the timing for 1 right since I cant get it done in training mode. Also, what's the best way for punishing jax if u freeze him in the middle of his jumping punch (don't know the exact name of the special). When he jumps forward and hits you I believe you'll know which one I mean.

I also have some problems when some characters gets frozen during certain specials/different positions. Sometimes they stay grounded and I'm able to hit them with b121, but sometimes they just get launched in the air when I do this. Seems even though the animations for some chars in certain positions show they seem to be grounded, when I try to hit them after the freeze, they just get blown away and I can't finish the combo. Those things really annoy me, hope u know what I'm talking about and thanks for the replies!!

and oh yeah, sry for mistakes and bad english

 

[SHAOLIN]

OK. Pretty advanced Sub-Zero player.That midscreen carry combo where you dash 1 five times in a row that you're looking for......its not worth your time.Doing more then one Dash 1 in a Sub-Zero midscreen combo is just gonna reduce the overall damage of the combo and best you can get probably is two to three dash 1s before they drop out of the combo. Its meant for style & flash....nothing else.

Punish for a roll is: 212 xx freeze->Dash->B1(2)->22 xx Slide: 25% or 29%

Punish for Jax's Dash Punch: NJP B1(2) 212 xx slide: 25% or 26%

If you don't whether or not if you can do B1(2)(1) on a frozen opponent then just do: NJP B1(2) 212 slide or 214 slide.


Hope this helps.

 

[Mark von Zoftmutter]

OK. Pretty advanced Sub-Zero player.That midscreen carry combo where you dash 1 five times in a row that you're looking for......its not worth your time.Doing more then one Dash 1 in a Sub-Zero midscreen combo is just gonna reduce the overall damage of the combo and best you can get probably is two to three dash 1s before they drop out of the combo. Its meant for style & flash....nothing else.

Punish for a roll is: 212 xx freeze->Dash->B1(2)->22 xx Slide: 25% or 29%

Punish for Jax's Dash Punch: NJP B1(2) 212 xx slide: 25% or 26%

If you don't whether or not if you can do B1(2)(1) on a frozen opponent then just do: NJP B1(2) 212 slide or 214 slide.


Hope this helps.

Thanks! It helps a bit

 

[Mark von Zoftmutter]

Midscreen Deep Jumpkick:
jk 22~slide = 20%
jk 22~ex freeze, (b1)2, 212~slide = 32%

That's also one thing that I don't understand yet. Does those combos apply when the opponent is frozen or not?
It seems I can't get those to land no matter how "deep" my jumpkick lands. Could anyone shed some light on how these are supposed to be done? Is there any special trick like small dash or anything that I could be missing?

 

[RyuKazuya]

Midscreen Deep Jumpkick:
jk 22~slide = 20%
jk 22~ex freeze, (b1)2, 212~slide = 32%

That's also one thing that I don't understand yet. Does those combos apply when the opponent is frozen or not?
It seems I can't get those to land no matter how "deep" my jumpkick lands. Could anyone shed some light on how these are supposed to be done? Is there any special trick like small dash or anything that I could be missing?

Well actually they should work as they are described. You gotta make sure two things
a) the jk must be so deep that you can barely see the jk animation.
b)make sure that you dash foward to get the opponent bro ^^

 

[Mark von Zoftmutter]

Well actually they should work as they are described. You gotta make sure two things
a) the jk must be so deep that you can barely see the jk animation.
b)make sure that you dash foward to get the opponent bro ^^

Ok thanks I've just done it for the first time thanks to your instructions. The guide is not exactly perfect due to the fact that those dashes aren't mentioned at all. But yeah, I find those type of combos extremely hard to do. The hardest sub combos IMO are ATA like atap, dash, 21 freeze and so on, this one is extremely difficult. Plus those:

212~freeze, deep jumpkick, 22~slide = 29%
212~freeze, *dash*, deep jumpkick, slide = 26% + reverses positions

Those are insanely hard IMO and shouldnt be used in matches anyway. Too inconsistent, I applaud people who are able to pull those of consistently.

Also, how is this possible??
d4, 212~slide = 21%