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Video/Tutorial - Grandmaster Sub-Zero needs B12~Clone and F42~Clone to be safe

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Nereus

Nereus

Noob
Hey Tom.. you provide some great points but.. for the part 1 video i would've liked it if you covered more than just Kenshi because it's easy for someone to say "Oh well.. that's just a bad matchup. Why should he get some safe ice clone cancel strings because of one matchup?"
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I would be OK with these adjustments as long as Sub Zero is at -5 after the clone. But I would also add more recovery frames to a whiffed slide.

It is interesting that the vast majority of high level players (i.e., Cowboy, DetroitBalln, Rebelo, etc.) have quit playing the character.
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
F42-clone being safe is a silly idea. It has huge range and hits mid. F42 is safe on its own and SZ is one of the few characters with a good backdash, plus he has puesdo-safe launching armour to play a good mind game after f42 on block. Just hit confirm that move, Sub should not get to play his clone game after that move is blocked, be real.
 
MsMiharo

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
I'm not saying Tom is wrong, but isn't this exaclty why variations exist? I know he talked about it in the first vid but like if a character's tool beats your tools, switch variation? I do love his tin foil hat moment when he says that everyone HATES clone but loves safe 50/50s though.
 
kruderf

kruderf

Noob
I agree with your suggestions but you're wrong about there being no option against spirit push. If you do f4 -> ex clone the blockstun is long enough that you have time to jump over the spirit push and punish. Again, I don't think you should need a bar to punish it but there IS an option available.
 
llabslb

llabslb

R1D1_998
I recently found out that players could run upto ice clones and block as well but only a few (imo) could really do something once they break the ice clone. Having B12 and F42 safe won't happen because it makes the nerf on his ice clone pretty pointless. The Ice clone is becoming more and more irrelevant, more pointless yet people complain about his clone.
 
Kilz88

Kilz88

Noob
Thank @Tom Brady. Well said and as a loyal Sub main since MK9, I obviously agree and support the change. I also support the change to clone collision. It is not like we can put the clone in uniquely advantageous positions like off of 212xxClone in MK9. In this game we always get that leaning back, anti-oppressive clone stance and getting poked through it is just dumb. You touch the clone, you should be frozen. Unless you are able to run up and block it which does take practice and some degree of skill so I am not as upset about that as long as we get some of these fixes.

To the people hating I ask that before you blow-up these threads saying "strong chacaters dont need buffs" and "rich get richer", etc do this. Talk to a serious Sub-Zero player. Any Sub-Zero main can tell you all of his struggles and short comings at this point of the game and the list is not short. If you really put it into perspective and approach the character objectively, rather than right after you lost to getting frustrated by clone, then you will realize that while he is a solid character, he is in no way broken nor does he do things that are unfair and game-breaking. The same can not be said for others characters in the game.

NRS, please take this into consideration.
 
ChaosTheory

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
General M2Dave said:
It is interesting that the vast majority of high level players (i.e., Cowboy, DetroitBalln, Rebelo, etc.) have quit playing the character.
Click to expand...
Who didn't see that coming? I was waiting since day 1 for everyone to drop him. The block-shatter nerfed was a curveball, but you knew that the novelty wears off and opponents become experienced.

It's a particular mindset that makes the Clone work, assuming it's not overpowered. ("particular", not "superior" /"inferior")
 
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