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Sub-Zero Match-up discussion

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Now that Sub-Zero is out for a while, I think it is a good time to discuss what are the good and bad MU's for Sub-Zero and what couls be good secondary characters to cover the bad ones.

Let the discussion begin :)

I will start by saying that he is good against Deadshot as he can Slide under all of his projectiles except Tricky Shot, does making Deadshot's Zoning much harder.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Sub Zero loses 6-4 to all the zoners.
He loses 5.5-4.5 to all the close combat characters "QCQ".
His only 5-5 match up is Himself...
The end:DOGE
A more serious answer please? As far as I know he does win against Rushdown characters such as the Flash, and he even wins against Black Adam (that's what Tom Brady said).
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Sub does okay Vs Slower characters but faster ones with zoning he struggles big time. Characters who are fast with reach are also a problem. He is a character that needs to get in but if he is Vs someone who can just walk backwards and play half screen full screen he's pretty fucked.

He's fun, but he takes a lot of work to win.

IMHO from experience: He loses to Catwoman, Wonder Woman, Starfire, Superman, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Batman (a smart player that is)

He has a chance Vs:

Dr Fate (I'm iffy about but it's possible), Robin (Not easy though), Cheetah, Bane, Flash, Scarecrow, Grodd, Batman (If he jumps around like a mad man), Sub-Zero

The rest I'm not so sure but faster characters can basically interrupt and punish almost all he does. I truly hate the Catwoman match up...

He has gaps that he didn't have in MKX, he still needs changes to be more viable.
Thanks for the info bro :)
 

Jhonnykiller45

Shirai Ryu
You know I actually agree with Tom in saying that Adam might be a good MU for Sub.
It just feels like Sub shuts down a lot of Adams options like IA dive kick, F12, B2 and Sub can just outrun his zoning. Thats only first impressions though but still.
 
Hey guys. Was curious if anyone here plays a different character to test match ups etc. I have been having fun using Sub zero of all characters and was curious on match ups. Overall he seems pretty decent in my limited play (500+ games). Hit me up. Alternatively, I can use a decent spread of characters as well to test the other side.
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
Based on my experience so far with the character and what characters I've played against him,

Flash sub- 4-6 (can lame flash out all day and corner traps him easily. No punish for clone cancels)

Deadshot sub- 6-4 (this is not the worst matchup, especially if you can corner deadshot, it's just a patience thing. And slide is helpful)

Superman sub- 5-5 (some tell me sub wins this but I think it's a 5-5. Zoning is annoying for sub but superman gets stuck in the corner and really no punish for clone cancels. The mid lazer going through clone is bullshit tho)

Adam sub- 6-4 (everyone says it's a 5-5 and it's prolly right, but from my personal exp, Adam is a nightmare to deal with)

Lantern sub- 5-5 (haven't played this much, but lanterns zoning is weak and his wakeup can be whiff punished in the corner)

Beetle sub- 5-5 (prolly one of the more fun matchups to play as sub imo. Does well against beetles zoning if you're patient enough and match is even. Sub can escape fly cancel pressure for free too :)

Bane sub- 5-5 (can be sort of lamed out, if you understand how to escape banes dumb shit that is, and traps him in the corner decently. Read heavy game)

Batman sub- 7-3, (one of the worst, trait is so anti clone you can't defend yourself. Shit anti air so jumps are free, and you need to pushblock so more meter usage on already meter intensive sub. And also batman can zone him).

Aquaman sub- 7-3 (everything this character does has no hitbox, it's like fighting alien again. Pretty self explanatory. However sub has a great answer to his trait and slide punishes ftd midscreen)

Others I'm not sure about (mostly speculation and some sets with avg players)

Red hood, 5-5
Starfire. 5-5
Catwoman, 5-5
Supergirl, 5-5

My thoughts on sub: he's decent and with good reads he can work, but he does need fixes to his pressure and his strings and some buffs like d1 special etc
 
@Dankster Morgan just counter pick... Sub Zero is clearly a worse version of Captain Cold... And Captain Cold is just a worse version of Firestorm.. figures:DOGE.

Let me explain... Sub Zero has literally no projectile against Cold. Mb puddle stops Sub Zero on It's track... and that allows Him to charge His trait full because of that... this enables cold to do His 800 combos into setup for a bar also, in close combat... You know that Sub Zero don't have the plus frames to force anyone to get pressured (I mean meter-less)... and Cold have better frames than Sub Zero in his strings:rolleyes:.
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
@hkriderz @Roy Arkon @Zerodegreez @any sub

How are you guys playing the Captain Cold matchup? I'm getting my ass kicked, I feel Sub gets out-zoned fairly bad here and its not hard at all for him to charge trait.
Sorry m8, havent played the cold match yet. But I've seen the matchup played once. My theory on it is corner him and never let him out. Cold doesn't have a move that goes through clone i think, besides ex wall, which you can bait with ex f3. you just have to trap him in the corner, and approach him slowly midscreen.

EDIT- oh and also dash when you see him charge trait and close in fast, or throw an ex iceball on a read
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
Alright that's basically what Iv been doing, I'm just struggling. Cold can zone Sub if he gets a life lead, If Sub tries to turtle on a life lead, Cold will just charge trait.
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
Same as any character without a dedicated anti zoning tool. Slide isn't bad but it ruins positioning. MB ice ball is slow but from the right distance it's okay. You just do the same as anyone, walk them down and try and corner them. It's an uphill battle no doubt and I think he loses to all the zoners, but I don't think he gets totally obliterated, you can still fight them.
 

Lord Beef

Death Metal and Trance
Premium Supporter
literally the only way to play the cold match up is to rush him the fuck down and never let him get L2. I play this MU with Korey pretty regularly and if he can space me out, even enough to get lvl2 one time...its gonna be rough. But if I can get in and never let him out of the corner, its GGs.
 
How do you guys play the superman MU? I've read here that it's a 5-5, but this guy is the bane of my existence right now when I use sub zero
 

SaucyD0ge

Worst european batman
How do you guys play the superman MU? I've read here that it's a 5-5, but this guy is the bane of my existence right now when I use sub zero
You need to make reads and challenge Supes zoning with mb iceball(which eats projectiles and trades favorably) and slide(which will hit Supes’ trying to heat zap, his high projectile).You should never stay full screen against Supes if you aren’t outzoning him(which Sub-Zero can not accomplish).You get a free bail-out option against f23 trait pressure by ice cloning out.

I used to play Superman against the initial wave of Scrub-Zeros when Sub-Zero dropped.All that clone cheese was gone with single heat zap.
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
How do you guys play the superman MU? I've read here that it's a 5-5, but this guy is the bane of my existence right now when I use sub zero
its basically a chase game. Jump his lazers on reaction or mb iceball on a good read, in the neutral clone to keep him from starting his f2 nonsense. This will make him back up more and more to the corner where he can't escape, and don't let him. Trap that mf in the corner and abuse him with everything you got. Do d1 a lot after ex shatter cause of his fast buttons so that he can respect you. Don't try and poke his trait cancels all the time cause you might die for it. Do it occasionally. And also if you have a clone out and he does air lazer time your slide so that the clone eats the lazer and you go under him and d2 punish. Also since you build a decent amount of meter, if you feel super trapped in the corner against him, pushblock.

It's mostly a read game until superman is in the corner then it's party time. Good luck, hope my suggestions helped
 

SaucyD0ge

Worst european batman
Now that Sub-Zero is out for a while, I think it is a good time to discuss what are the good and bad MU's for Sub-Zero and what couls be good secondary characters to cover the bad ones.

Let the discussion begin :)

I will start by saying that he is good against Deadshot as he can Slide under all of his projectiles except Tricky Shot, does making Deadshot's Zoning much harder.
I don’t think nullifying the sniper rifle is worth anything, the Deadshot player has to simply play it smart by using trick shot to replace the sniper rifle.And if sub-zero is getting hit out of his slide, he has nearly no options against good zoning but to crawl his way in.Guess what happens when Deadshot doesn’t want you in his face?You get pushblocked.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I don’t think nullifying the sniper rifle is worth anything, the Deadshot player has to simply play it smart by using trick shot to replace the sniper rifle.And if sub-zero is getting hit out of his slide, he has nearly no options against good zoning but to crawl his way in.Guess what happens when Deadshot doesn’t want you in his face?You get pushblocked.
Yes the Trick shot is an issue, but Sub can Slide under all of the DS' other projectiles, so he can go around DS' Zoning pretty well. Like I said earlier, I believe it's a 5-5 MU.
 

SaucyD0ge

Worst european batman
But th
Yes the Trick shot is an issue, but Sub can Slide under all of the DS' other projectiles, so he can go around DS' Zoning pretty well. Like I said earlier, I believe it's a 5-5 MU.
But if Deadshot can shoot the clone on reaction, what does Sub even have for the match win?Mb ice shatter shenanigans will get pushblocked by any potent Deadshot, Deadshot can bait the slide for a punish(those wrist shots have little to no recovery), Deadshot can still outmeter you full screen and can outmix you up close(you get to punish b12u3 with slide though).

Still not enough to convince me that it’s 5-5.I’d say it slightly favors Deadshot.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
But th

But if Deadshot can shoot the clone on reaction, what does Sub even have for the match win?Mb ice shatter shenanigans will get pushblocked by any potent Deadshot, Deadshot can bait the slide for a punish(those wrist shots have little to no recovery), Deadshot can still outmeter you full screen and can outmix you up close(you get to punish b12u3 with slide though).

Still not enough to convince me that it’s 5-5.I’d say it slightly favors Deadshot.
Then just don't use the Klone or MB Ice Burst, except maybe if you want him to waist Trick Shot on the Klone giving you an openning to approach him with Slide. And just use Slide at the right moment. He can't use tve Trick Shot forever as Sub csn hit him with Ice Ball.

Its still a 5-5 MU.
 
Need help against red hood and green arrow. How do you even play that MU I have I go through that obstacle course of bullets and arrows then I have when I get close it's a non stop barrage of string from red hood. Any advice?