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Move List - Sub-Zero Sub-Zero Exhaustive Move Data

Lokheit

Noob
but tbh, im done doing anything on the SZ forum.
If I may ask... where did this come from? Just out of curiosity, as I don't know what triggered it, most of the posters that contribute here the most aren't disrespectful with you and most of the times someone trolls you is people maining different characters or not posting too much in this section.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
@Lokheit out of curiosity, and with an armored wake-up question depending on the answer. How did you find all this info, are you using a software or are you just an unstoppable rebel lab machine? Surely there were frame numbers on hit/ block involved that aren't included in this document yet.

The reason I ask is because I'm trying to wrap my head around the EX clone combos. I'd like to post some of these alongside some application in an "optimal punish" type thread, but I'd like to separate the combos into difficulty sections (for instance b33 xx EX clone, f4... possible, but frame perfection would put it in the "hard" category as opposed to the "tournament viable" category).

Also, if the stance specific requirements with b12 xx EX clone are here to stay, would it be worth looking into which moves force a stance switch on SZ use/ opponent hit, such as b12, 12, b2 etc.
 

Lokheit

Noob
@Lokheit out of curiosity, and with an armored wake-up question depending on the answer. How did you find all this info, are you using a software or are you just an unstoppable rebel lab machine? Surely there were frame numbers on hit/ block involved that aren't included in this document yet.

The reason I ask is because I'm trying to wrap my head around the EX clone combos. I'd like to post some of these alongside some application in an "optimal punish" type thread, but I'd like to separate the combos into difficulty sections (for instance b33 xx EX clone, f4... possible, but frame perfection would put it in the "hard" category as opposed to the "tournament viable" category).

Also, if the stance specific requirements with b12 xx EX clone are here to stay, would it be worth looking into which moves force a stance switch on SZ use/ opponent hit, such as b12, 12, b2 etc.
Everyhing I got is from labbing, that's why the hit and cancel advantages are listed as in "can do this" instead of numbers, but I got a method to easily calculate all of them that I plan to use. I've delayed all my projects a lot because of a combination of "waiting for XL so it doesn't get obsolete" and some personal/professional stuff in the middle.

I plan to change the format of this chart into a PDF easier to understand and including more concise explanations and numbers and how tight some of those are, it will come at the same time as the Cryo guide. This weekend I should release that damage scaling guide that I've been talking about for months, but this time it should be true lol (in my defense, it's more than 20 videos explaining all of the specific cases, anomalies and bugs that I've found), and after that it comes the Cryo guide, then the meter build formulas guide.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
Everyhing I got is from labbing, that's why the hit and cancel advantages are listed as in "can do this" instead of numbers, but I got a method to easily calculate all of them that I plan to use. I've delayed all my projects a lot because of a combination of "waiting for XL so it doesn't get obsolete" and some personal/professional stuff in the middle.

I plan to change the format of this chart into a PDF easier to understand and including more concise explanations and numbers and how tight some of those are, it will come at the same time as the Cryo guide. This weekend I should release that damage scaling guide that I've been talking about for months, but this time it should be true lol (in my defense, it's more than 20 videos explaining all of the specific cases, anomalies and bugs that I've found), and after that it comes the Cryo guide, then the meter build formulas guide.
I've always been curious about meter building, from both player and opponent perspectives. Should you let an opponent hit you instead of chip you out, do more hits in your combo mean more meter for the opponent, why does getting thrown build so much meter, etc. Looking forward to seeing it all!
 

Lokheit

Noob
I've always been curious about meter building, from both player and opponent perspectives. Should you let an opponent hit you instead of chip you out, do more hits in your combo mean more meter for the opponent, why does getting thrown build so much meter, etc. Looking forward to seeing it all!
The formula for meter building is a direct continuation of the damage formula where you multiply twice by the accumulated damage scale and then by 0.7 (so combos with a lot of hits and launchers applying heavy damage scale will build less meter for the opponent than a combo doing the same damage with less but stronger hits). There is a bug with multi-hitting commands (like throws or Cryomancer's Cold Blooded) where only the first hit is multiplied twice and the rest of the hits only once (which means it's the damage they're doing after damage scale x0.7) so that's why those moves build more meter even after a combo (I assume it's a bug because I know there have been a lot of bugs fixed over time with multi-hitting moves not scaling damage correctly and this is probably caused by the same code issues).

I'm still getting some of the formulas for meter building but that's how opponents build meter when hit for sure. Killing someone only with uppercuts or throws outside of combos means you're building him a ton of meter because there is no damage scale which is VERY important to reduce meter gain (that's why the 7 bomb old Cyrax combos built almost no meter with the hits in the end of the combo).