General/Other Striking when the iron is hot!!?

Discussion in 'Sub-Zero' started by Solid, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. NRF CharlieMurphy

    NRF CharlieMurphy Kindergarten Meta

    one word... no
    I am not going to flame you. But you have to PLAY the character to understand our grief. Sub has no rush down. You have to understand that.
    PoliceBrutality likes this.
  2. Dark_Rob

    Dark_Rob Noob

    The difference is, Stryker has always been bottom, you started using him knowing that. Our icy buddy on the other hand was once opon a time a top 3 character in the game. Its more of a bitter pill to swallow for us because we remember, we remember when Subzero was feared, hated even. We may cry about it more than other players of other characters do, but its only because we know how far weve fallen. Only a Kung Lao player might be able to empathize with us. But although Lao has been hit just as hard with the nerf stick as we have, Lao still didnt fall as far.
    Solid likes this.
  3. PoliceBrutality

    PoliceBrutality Let's go green!!!!

    Thanks for not flaming me :) But sub usually rush the hell out of me. I usually stand a chance against turtle ones, but rushdown subs are a nightmare to me. I said rushdown from experience..that's all :)
  4. A F0xy Grampa

    A F0xy Grampa Problem X Promotions
    Premium Supporter

    Subs good, but some of his stuff doesnt make sense, why can he clone off of certain ended strings like B121 but not 13F4 or 3F4 and why does 1 3 have to link into ex freeze instead of normal freeze?
    Larry_Bird likes this.
  5. miloPKL


    calling on mods to delete the sub and smoke forums please thanks
  6. PoliceBrutality

    PoliceBrutality Let's go green!!!!

    Maybe I should PM you regarding the fallen sub that way I dont derail this thread, because in my opinion sub was deemed to be where he is now. He was so GDLK at the beginning that maybe most ppl were afraid to exploit and try stuff to counter. I just think everybody just adjusted to his game. Surely the nerfs had something to do with him being where he is, but I still think ppl are just getting use to exploiting his weaknesses. The only thing I can think of that really affected him was the dash nerf but that's for every characters. I wish I knew the difference between when he was top 3 and where he is now. Since I visit this site religiously, I vaguely remember that the nerfs have to do with damage reduction, reset has been taken away, and the infamous dash nerf. All of his weaknesses were already there, no? If the aforementioned nerfs came with new weaknesses, then that's a different story.
  7. Dark_Rob

    Dark_Rob Noob

    Subs rushdown is a parlor trick. We have not one string that is positive on block, not one frame trap, nothing. His rushdown is all mind games, all reads and guesses. Smoke and mirrors. If it wasnt for throws I dont know how we could ever put our opponents to a decision.
    Larry_Bird likes this.
  8. Truth

    Truth Noob

    The worst one is when the slide doesn't even act like a slide. I know Dark Rob has told me that NRS felt it was too broken, but I still don't understand this argument that it would make SZ "unzonable." Mileena's roll, not to mention her teleport, make her "unzonable." Stryker's roll makes him "unzonable" not to mention the move is practically safe. Hell even Reptile's slide goes under projectiles. If there are other "slide-like" moves that act like true high guard crushes, then why doesn't SZ have one?

    I asked Paulo about it and all he told me was that SZ didn't have it in MK2. This would be a good argument...if we were playing MK2, not MK9.
    Solid likes this.
  9. PoliceBrutality

    PoliceBrutality Let's go green!!!!

    Welcome to the club mate. Although your parlor tricks are way better than mine IMO

    BTW I like the sub forum. You guys are civil hehe. Not that ive been flamed before, but I see some crazy disrespectful replies from one member to another :(
  10. STB Sgt Reed

    STB Sgt Reed Online Warrior

    The thing is, there's a HUGE problem with Sub's rushdown tactics... 21 doesn't always connect after the stun of B121. Which means he can be poked out, jumped out, or combo'd out of pressure. And for Sub-Zero to win he HAS to get in close! And if you can completely nullify that pressure b/c one of his strings don't work as it should... something's wrong.
  11. Dark_Rob

    Dark_Rob Noob

    So many things changed. Not just Sub, and in general the changes affected Sub negatively. But if you want an example of how awesome he was in the beginning, just look at all the armor moves in the game now. Those moves being armored are in direct response to one move, one move in the whole game, Subzero's ice clone. Thats how it good it was. Did Sub have weakness's even in his prime? Sure he did. But they were no where near as crippling. Only a select few characters had armor moves to blow up the ice clone,very few actually. Zoners were always a pain in the butt. But then again back then Sub hit like an AK47 instead of a BB gun like he does now, so we only had to catch those characters like twice, maybe 3 times, instead of the 6 or 7 times we have to now. There was no Freddy, there was no Kenshi. Kitana was still a problem but again, we only needed to get our mitts on her twice. And the faster dash made it easier to negotiate the zoner obstacle course. It wasnt any one thing by itself that ruined Sub, it was all of it, the nerfs to him, the changes in the game, the DLC characters brought into it. All of it. Even Sub in his prime, there was no way he was ever going to beat a pre patch Skarlett.
    CptXecution likes this.
  12. PoliceBrutality

    PoliceBrutality Let's go green!!!!

    Wouldnt that imply that he was a bit overpowered. I cant speak for other chars, but I remember the days when stryker didnt have full armor for his roll toss. If I ever wanted to get pass that clone with armor, I would have to get so close to the ice as if I wanted to kiss it, then do a EN roll because the armor was only at the initial frame. Now mind you, I have to do all this while the sub player is throwing ice ball like crazy, or getting pressured by 2,2 and D4. there was absolutely no way for me to pass that Ice Clone and inflict damage. And if I dare get myself cornered, it was game over. My only fighting chance was hoping to land a low poke to break the ice clone, land a gunshot, or force the sub player to move pass the clone if I have room to do so lol. I think the added armors was a good choice to give us a fighting chance, otherwise NRS would have probably crippled Ice Clone beyond repair to make it fair to the other chars. Again, im glad it was the former than the possible latter.(I respectfully disagree on that one simply because thanks to sub the game got better and all the chars got a fighting chance).

    I do understand the AK47 vs the BB gun analogy because stryker still hits like an AK. But given the tools that sub has, the damage still needed to be reduced but maybe not to the level of a BB gun. BTW if his BnB combos are between 30-35% I still think it's fine. If they barely do 30% I could see how that could be a problem. (I support the reduce damage argument being too low and hope it gets changed in the future).

    As for the I believe they give everybody problems one way or another lol. After taking everything that you just said in perspective, I can now begin to understand and see why sub is suffering. I wonder if other characters have been affected the same way..anyway that's a whole other can of worms lol. I'm not sure 2,2 hitting low hitbox chars will make a difference at this point.
  13. SunnyD

    SunnyD 24 Low Hat!

    I think this is the third "Sub needz patch naow" thread on the Sub Zero forum...yet i dont see one on any other character forum hmm...
    Larry_Bird likes this.
  14. Dark_Rob

    Dark_Rob Noob

    He was a bit overpowered. And I loved him for it. Im speaking selfishly here, and thats something I seldom do. Toning down Subs BS didnt get rid of BS in the game in general. Plenty of other characters have BS and Im fine with that. I just want my BS back. When NRS took Subs reset I had been told by my contacts that it was with the understanding that all the other characters resets were being taken out of the game as well. For the sake of making the game better I understood, I was even for it, much to the chagrin of other Sub players around here who were very happy to have that reset(I should have listened to them, my bad guys) Instead Sub lost his reset which at the time was his biggest and best way of hitting big damage, but lo and behold everyone else still had they're resets. NRS took away the most escapable and least damaging reset in the game but left all the really brutal ones in. It made no sense and left a sour taste in my mouth. Trying to think about the big picture and about the game as a whole got my character raped. So I wont do that anymore. From now on I take what they give me and run with it and I scream bloody murder when they want to take something away. Had I been thinking as just a Subzero player and not the game as whole I might have been able to stop at least some of what happened from happening to him.
    Fatality_check likes this.
  15. OnizukaPM

    OnizukaPM Noob

    Okay guys u all forgot about most important buff

    lets make F41+2 OVERHEAD!
  16. PoliceBrutality

    PoliceBrutality Let's go green!!!!

    you kidding right. To better understand some of what you guys are posting I went to the lab and tried some if the strings, I cant believe how many overhead sub always has. This is ridiculous...where do I sign up to get a couple added to mine :p
  17. STB Sgt Reed

    STB Sgt Reed Online Warrior

    F4 is an overhead... not sure where he got the idea it wasn't. lol
  18. Dark_Rob

    Dark_Rob Noob

    He was kidding.
  19. greeneless

    greeneless Noob

    Sub zero's rushdown is bad now? Two months ago everyone on this forum was trying to tell me he was a rushdown character. Was there a patch since then? I must've missed it.
  20. STB Sgt Reed

    STB Sgt Reed Online Warrior

    He's only a rushdown character when the opponent doesn't know the matchup. When people don't expect B121 into D4, 21, 212 clone/freeze, throw, F4 freeze ... his rushdown is great. When they expect it: 21 will only work on regular hitbox characters, F4 is slow enough to see it coming and block high or jump out/punish, throw can be ducked or jumped out, and his damage is pretty bad b/c you end up only getting the B121 before they get out... then Sub has the huge task of getting back in which usually involves eating damage to trade freeze with a projectile.
    greeneless likes this.
  21. Z-911-Z

    Z-911-Z Bone and Metal

    T4L Z911
    Striking when the iron is hot? Isn't that the last thing Sub-Zero would want to do?(Sorry, but that was bothering me for a while seeing the thread title)
    Panque and Solid like this.
  22. MagicMan357

    MagicMan357 Black Dragon enthusiast

    If sub gets buffs then everyone gets them lol

    i wouldnt mind sub getting some buffs, but if people really want slide to just go under projectiles all the time then they must get rid of the armor. Also it would make more since for 2 for be an overhead than 4. Ice clones on the end of his f1,3,4 string isnt an issue. So personally i wouldnt even mind a buff, but hes fine the way he is though, if he isnt rush down then he isnt rushdown. Its up to you to decide what tactics to use.
  23. NRF CharlieMurphy

    NRF CharlieMurphy Kindergarten Meta

    LOL at the random dudes who come in here and say "look at the whining sub zero's blah blah blah"
    In all seriousness... I just want the weird inconsistancies to be gone.
    and btw... i'm sick of people whining about their "low tier" character. Have you guys seen what Mr. Mileena has done for Sindel... what Vulcan Hades and Shujinkydink have done with Stryker? It irritates me to hear whining... when your character just needs people to dig into them.

    I personally agree with Rob. Ice Clone was a VERY good move in the beginning... and no one really TRIED to get around it... they simply whined about it. In the end the game was coated in armor AND Sub's damage was taken away. All of it. Top it off... they made him SLOWER. really? They turned our Tank into a freaking Humvee.

    In any case... I really don't mind how he is now damage wise. I've found ways around it. What I don't understand is why they would let his 2 hit some crouches and not others. And why they decided he needed to be so fucking slow.

    @Dark Rob my question to you... in the long run... would simply having a better dash make him just a tad bit better against his zoned out matches... Kitana, Kabal etc etc.
    OneBoxyRobot likes this.
  24. SwiftTomHanks

    SwiftTomHanks missiles are coming
    News Editor

    I will trade you your unsafe armor move for my "safe" wake up (it's punishable by a 7 frame move, an anti-air d1 will do).

    Flame thrower is slowly losing fire since it's better to do a anti-air standing 1. So you can have that for free.

    And I would give you my mid poke for only one of my first two hits whiffing on my main string.

    Deal, Mr. Robbert?
    Dark_Rob likes this.
  25. SwiftTomHanks

    SwiftTomHanks missiles are coming
    News Editor

    22 I believe? The one with the ice sword animation. That sword is SO high and will hit people as they cross over you.

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