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Question - Ninjitsu Some questions about Ninjitsu Scorpion

myri

Time Warrior
So today I decided to go back to my first love, that being Scorpion and pick him up again. Been playing Ninjutsu because it seems pretty straight forward but I have some questions about some stuff.

1. Is b32f2 safe? I know it's -12 but there is a hell of a lot of pushback and I don't think the majority of characters can punish it or if any can punish it?

2. How far back from your opponent do you have to be to make f2 completely safe? It seems hard to punish at point blank just because of some wonky blockstun but yeah I was wondering.

3. I assume the main purpose of b2 in the neutral is for whiff punishing and anti-airs right?

4. Staggering b12, 11 and 21 etc into throws or strings seems like the way to go for my offense right (after a teleport ender)? Or just go for a mixup with b3, f2, f4 and b4?

So yeah, clarify away people.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
So today I decided to go back to my first love, that being Scorpion and pick him up again. Been playing Ninjutsu because it seems pretty straight forward but I have some questions about some stuff.

1. Is b32f2 safe? I know it's -12 but there is a hell of a lot of pushback and I don't think the majority of characters can punish it or if any can punish it?

2. How far back from your opponent do you have to be to make f2 completely safe? It seems hard to punish at point blank just because of some wonky blockstun but yeah I was wondering.

3. I assume the main purpose of b2 in the neutral is for whiff punishing and anti-airs right?

4. Staggering b12, 11 and 21 etc into throws or strings seems like the way to go for my offense right (after a teleport ender)? Or just go for a mixup with b3, f2, f4 and b4?

So yeah, clarify away people.
1. Its pretty safe due to the pushback. I have never been punished for using it that I can recall. Maybe Sub's slide can punish it? If you want a truly safe low use ninjutsus b4, 100% safe (-5 i think?)

2. Most characters have to be very close (almost point blank) to get a true punish on a blocked f2 from my experience. Obviously you lose your turn either way but if you do it between max range and middle range you should be pretty safe from getting punished.

3. B2 in the neutral is for whiff punishing or for a read that someone is going to jump or come in on you from far away IMO. It is too slow and unreliable to use as an AA against jump-distance jump ins. You will want to get used to using s3 for AAing a jump distance jump in because it is 7 frames and leads to a full combo.

4. Yes all of those are good for tick throw setups / post combo offense & pressure. And of course you can go for a OH/low mixup as you stated as well. His offense is fairly straightfoward really. You will get a ton of throws and tick throws for sure.
 

TyCarter35

Bonafide Jax scrub
1. yes only a select few can punish it despite blockstun such as Tarkatan alien with s2 or Raiden with f1 when being cornered
2. usually u want to hit f2 around its medium to max range to make it safe. against characters who have no mids u can make it so safe especially if done near max range that u can d4 right after and low profile. at max range no character can punish it clean bar Reptile's slide most likely and even that's not guaranteed.
3. yes. However b2 is also usable for catching ppl letting go of block and most ppl can't react to it. just keep in mind that even at max range it is punishable by characters with fast advancing punishers.
4. either one is good. a good mix between the two is probably the best way to go.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
@myri on a side note, I really recommend messing around with hellfire as well (if you are interested). I find hellfire the more enjoyable to play of the two personally. I know the fbrc stuff can be annoying to learn at first but I strongly recommend doing so.
 

Lord Beef

Death Metal and Trance
Premium Supporter
1. Is b32f2 safe? I know it's -12 but there is a hell of a lot of pushback and I don't think the majority of characters can punish it or if any can punish it? - Fast reversals can punish this, you might get away with some disrespectful d4 aftetr MAXXXX range on block, but only if their poke back is a high. <<SUPER character specific and yolo as hell. viable however against some characters and can really set the tone.

2. How far back from your opponent do you have to be to make f2 completely safe? It seems hard to punish at point blank just because of some wonky blockstun but yeah I was wondering. About mid to max range. After absolute max range, the above also applies for low profiling stuff with D4 if they dont have a mid you have to respect.

3. I assume the main purpose of b2 in the neutral is for whiff punishing and anti-airs right? mainly AA, but if their D4 r something has shit recovery its a great whiff punisher and conditioning tool to catch people just trying to advance or let go of block.

4. Staggering b12, 11 and 21 etc into throws or strings seems like the way to go for my offense right (after a teleport ender)? Or just go for a mixup with b3, f2, f4 and b4? You have the right idea, use the safe and + on block pressure to collect data before going for mixups, and of course mind your life lead as far as these decisions go. Grabs are a massive part of his 'pressure' as well, use them, a lot. Additionally, against a lot of characters you can make your mixup attempt safe-ish by canceling into ex spear off of b4 or f4 or b3. f4 and b3 do not jail into ex spear though, so the cancel itself can be armored.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Moderator
may i add a question?

- are there any noteworthy corner combos?
Not particularly. You'll probably want to stay away from the corner tbh as Ninjitsu is strongest midscreen. He's actually possibly weaker with the opponent cornered. Less room for them to move and make a mistake. Hellfire is the guy who wants to be in that corner tho for sure.
 

jokey77

Character Loyalist
I don't think that having the opponent cornered could be a disadvantage. especially because d4 becomes so much more scary without blockstun-pushback.

it is just that it is not a good idea to use teleport/sideswitch combos, i think! :)
 

Matix218

Get over here!
I don't think that having the opponent cornered could be a disadvantage. especially because d4 becomes so much more scary without blockstun-pushback.

it is just that it is not a good idea to use teleport/sideswitch combos, i think! :)
You can use your same combos in the corner and just modify them to keep the opponent cornered

Example (in corner): f2, b2, b2, jk~teleport, 21~spear

And either end with raw s4~teleport or jump over punch into s3, both keep you with plenty of advantage and keep them in the corner.

If you want you could also do f2, b2, b2, b2, f4~spear, jump over punch, 4~tele.

It all does similar damage and ends with you keeping them cornered in a standing reset.

There may be some super optimal corner combo that Im not aware of but I like to keep it simple and minimize risk of dropping personally
 

Matix218

Get over here!
I don't think that having the opponent cornered could be a disadvantage. especially because d4 becomes so much more scary without blockstun-pushback.

it is just that it is not a good idea to use teleport/sideswitch combos, i think! :)
The one downside of using a teleport/sideswitch combo in the corner is that if your opponent has a breaker they can choose to break when you have reversed sides and the brraker will put you in the corner. This is especially death against GM sub for obvious reasons. If you land a corner combo against an opponent with 2 bars and dont want to risk this you can modify the combo accordingly

Example

F2, b2, b2, b2, f4~ spear, s3

If you are using the 214 string as your starter in the corner I am not sure what your best bet would be that does not involve teleporting though
 

Karma

Soul Caliber, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, and SF.
I literally have no idea what you are talking about
Weird. My biggest threat in MKX was scorpion but after many losses against scorpion, shit starts getting easy especially reading his staggers.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
Weird. My biggest threat in MKX was scorpion but after many losses against scorpion, shit starts getting easy especially reading his staggers.
Ok thats fine but keep in mind that is more a personal thing for you and has nothing to do with this thread. I could go in a thread where someone was asking questions about setups with sektor and say "sektors setups dont work on me and I will blow them up" but what is the point of even posting that? It adds nothing to the thread other than wasted posts.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Not particularly. You'll probably want to stay away from the corner tbh as Ninjitsu is strongest midscreen. He's actually possibly weaker with the opponent cornered. Less room for them to move and make a mistake. Hellfire is the guy who wants to be in that corner tho for sure.
completely incorrect. You should watch some of @Eddy Wang 's play. The corner gives you full control over spacing, and combo's can be adapted to use the wall instead of the TP to juggle.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
completely incorrect. You should watch some of @Eddy Wang 's play. The corner gives you full control over spacing, and combo's can be adapted to use the wall instead of the TP to juggle.
Do you know what the best non teleport corner combo ending in a spear restand is off of a 214 or 114 by chance? Is it just like 214 d1 s3 s3 spear or something of that nature? F2 i can make work but I never even labbed it with 214/114 which I should have. Hellfire is obvious because of flame aura but not really for ninjutsu
 

Karma

Soul Caliber, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, and SF.
Ok thats fine but keep in mind that is more a personal thing for you and has nothing to do with this thread. I could go in a thread where someone was asking questions about setups with sektor and say "sektors setups dont work on me and I will blow them up" but what is the point of even posting that? It adds nothing to the thread other than wasted posts.
Because what i am literally telling you be careful who you do that to or when to do it, dude. Staggers is a risk and can become a pattern to read easily, do a uppercut between his Staggers and he eat 14% damage or poke and start your turn. Use the brain you have. Period.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
Because what i am literally telling you be careful who you do that to or when to do it, dude. Staggers is a risk and can become a pattern to read easily, do a uppercut between his Staggers and he eat 14% damage or poke and start your turn. Use the brain you have.
That is true of most staggers, especially when you are staggering attacks that hit high. That doesn't mean it is garbage. You can also do things like 21~ex spear or 212 if you think your opponent is going to read your stagger so there are ways to counter the counters too. Anytime you are using highs to pressure/stagger or anything that you are staggering that does not jail into the followup you are taking a risk but thst is pretty universal and not necessarily Ninjutsu scorpion specific.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Do you know what the best non teleport corner combo ending in a spear restand is off of a 214 or 114 by chance? Is it just like 214 d1 s3 s3 spear or something of that nature? F2 i can make work but I never even labbed it with 214/114 which I should have. Hellfire is obvious because of flame aura but not really for ninjutsu
Eddy told me them a while ago but I stopped playing Ninjutsu shortly after so never learned it, but he definitely had some optimized corner combos for this. He'll get my tag from my last post so he might help you out with it, otherwise you could just jack it from one of his most recent gameplay vids
 

myri

Time Warrior
@myri on a side note, I really recommend messing around with hellfire as well (if you are interested). I find hellfire the more enjoyable to play of the two personally. I know the fbrc stuff can be annoying to learn at first but I strongly recommend doing so.
I learned it before so I can do it but I'm looking for something easier right now and ninjitsu covers that nicely.