So... Why Did Zoning Suck in MKX?

[MKF30]

Mystic

Since when? I'll admit I dropped the game a year ago but last time I checked his damage output was better in MOS, and majority preferred that. Was there a buff he got in mystic and major nerf in MOS I'm not aware of? If this happened, I'll admit this is new news to me if this is the case. He'd have to be nerfed hard for MOS to be worse than Mystic was....At any rate, I'll still ride MK 9 Ermac over MK X in general. But I realize it's a different game, one is pro rushdown, anti zoning, the other isn't.

 

[masherofbuttons]

Since when? I'll admit I dropped the game a year ago but last time I checked his damage output was better in MOS, and majority preferred that. Was there a buff he got in mystic and major nerf in MOS I'm not aware of? If this happened, I'll admit this is new news to me if this is the case. He'd have to be nerfed hard for MOS to be worse than Mystic was....At any rate, I'll still ride MK 9 Ermac over MK X in general. But I realize it's a different game, one is pro rushdown, anti zoning, the other isn't.

Mystic now has safe on block armor that hits virtually everywhere and players like 2ez put in a lot of work with spectral who is high mid/top tier imo

 

[The_Tile]

Since when? I'll admit I dropped the game a year ago but last time I checked his damage output was better in MOS, and majority preferred that. Was there a buff he got in mystic and major nerf in MOS I'm not aware of? If this happened, I'll admit this is new news to me if this is the case. He'd have to be nerfed hard for MOS to be worse than Mystic was....

MOS stopped being used a lot quite a while ago. He's not exactly "bad" imo but he's just the worst by default, I forget exactly which patch it was but Mystic got buffed into stupidity and has been considered the best variation overall since then, despite receiving a few minor changes since that patch.

Spectral I'm not so sure as he's hardly every used due to the execution required to be used effectively, from what I know though he has the same mixups MOS has, plus more mixups and he's much safer. And he has the added utility of the charge

 

[MKF30]

Mystic now has safe on block armor that hits virtually everywhere and players like 2ez put in a lot of work with spectral who is high mid/top tier imo

Ok, so they buffed Mystic again. That's good to hear. As for Spectral, it's still his weakest variation overall from what I just read on the Ermac forum. I know about that guy's vids, he is awesome in Spectral but majority I've noticed won't put in the work in that variation. But thanks for the info regarding the mystic. I remember him getting some buffs but I didn't know they buffed Mystic that much.

MOS stopped being used a lot quite a while ago. He's not exactly "bad" imo but he's just the worst by default, I forget exactly which patch it was but Mystic got buffed into stupidity and has been considered the best variation overall since then, despite receiving a few minor changes since that patch.

Spectral I'm not so sure as he's hardly every used due to the execution required to be used effectively, from what I know though he has the same mixups MOS has, plus more mixups and he's much safer. And he has the added utility of the charge

Exactly, the execution, time put in for Spectral is work that most don't want to invest. I agree, I'm curious to play again now just to see the differences though I'd be very surprised if Spectral was better/more effective than MOS however. Spectral is just such an odd variation IMO, not saying it can't be effective but I just don't see the damage, fundamentals being better than MOS. I just hated how with Ermac especially, they literally took parts of MK 9 Mac and split them into 3 variations more than everyone else. You know what I mean?

 

[masherofbuttons]

Ok, so they buffed Mystic again. That's good to hear. As for Spectral, it's still his weakest variation overall from what I just read on the Ermac forum. I know about that guy's vids, he is awesome in Spectral but majority I've noticed won't put in the work in that variation. But thanks for the info regarding the mystic. I remember him getting some buffs but I didn't know they buffed Mystic that much.

IMO the only reason to use MOS would be to counterzone or for bigger unsafe damage. Spectral has semi-safe 50/50's with f4 and b3 into float and they're hitconfirmable into high 30's damage. Also his zoning is way better, being able to anti-air while in float.
It's whatever but spectral is definitely not a character to sleep on.

 

[MKF30]

IMO the only reason to use MOS would be to counterzone or for bigger unsafe damage. Spectral has semi-safe 50/50's with f4 and b3 into float and they're hitconfirmable into high 30's damage. Also his zoning is way better, being able to anti-air while in float.
It's whatever but spectral is definitely not a character to sleep on.

I used to use MOS to often counter zone or well zoning as well when I played often (long before the mystic buff) when I tried mystic it was bad at the time, but apparently it's gotten a lot better so I've read on his forums and the info you've given me. That was a big reason why I dropped Ermac and the game in general because of lack of tools etc. I probably wouldn't pick up Spectral even now as the work/execution is probably still the same but that's good to know that they buffed them a bit.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Simple.
The run mechanic.

Did you ever try getting through Quan Chi Summoner when your stamina was empty? He would zone you just as hard as you would destroy him when you knocked him down.

 

[Wigy]

snip.

I could sit and argue with you, but you just say more stupid shit every time. Wasting my breath. Agree to disagree i guess.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

If Freddy was purely just about running/keeping people away, why didn't Freddy players feel compelled to replicate that success with say, Noob Saibot?

Because Noob's zoning was a gimmick. It was used to frustrate people who were unfamiliar with the MU, but didn't pose nearly as much of threat to better players.

The risk/reward was generally not in Noob's favor.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

I'll admit I dropped the game a year ago

Are you serious? You tell people that MOS is better than mystic then tell everybody you dropped the game a year ago? This is why no one takes you seriously.

 

[Wigy]

Are you serious? You tell people that MOS is better than mystic then tell everybody you dropped the game a year ago? This is why no one takes you seriously.

Go look at his status's he uses the fact he beat someone on a 10 win streak on KOTH for matchup discussion.

 

[MKF30]

I could sit and argue with you, but you just say more stupid shit every time. Wasting my breath. Agree to disagree i guess.

lol I could say the same about you saying dumb shit but yeah, see if you guys would do that to begin with we wouldn't be having this argument to begin with. I love how you ignored the fact that the dude I was referring to had a much higher True Skill than me, was a good player and that was just an analogy. You talk big for someone who just seems to ride on other people's arguments, I guess I shouldn't be surprised given your picture. I also never used a streak as a match up, I was using that as an example regarding zoning...know what forget it, you're obviously trolling me at this point. I also never said anything about a "10 in a row" in my status what are you talking about? That aside, what does any of my status updates have to do with the fact that zoning sucks in MKX compared to MK 9 again?

Are you serious? You tell people that MOS is better than mystic then tell everybody you dropped the game a year ago? This is why no one takes you seriously.

You don't know me so please stop, most do take me serious just because you and a few others don't means little to me. Keep making assumptions, that was about ONE variation it doesn't change the fact that the zoning in MK X still sucks compared to MK 9. But feel free to argue that, majority on here disagree with you. I mean it's not like 100 other people in here haven't said "well, run, 50/50's, penalized backdashiing etc" but feel free to ignore that. You already got my update post deleted, you're obviously a troll who likes to talk big with nothing to back it up. I'd say play me but we both know that ain't happening so you waste my time. Blocking you so don't bother addressing me anymore, I won't see it. Your saying says it all. Accurate I'm sure.

 

[Wigy]

ONLINE MATCHES AGAINST RANDOMS DO NOT MATTER

i dont even know what you mean about the avatar.

 

[MKF30]

Never said it did, again analogy. I'm do you not know what an analogy is? That doesn't change the way a character plays. Again, Ermac and Sektor are both played the same way off or online....or the fact that MKX's zoning still lacks compared to MK 9's since we got off topic here a bit. If you feel differently there, fine agree to disagree but majority on this site and in general feel the same way I do regarding the topic itself.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

lol I could say the same about you saying dumb shit but yeah, see if you guys would do that to begin with we wouldn't be having this argument to begin with. I love how you ignored the fact that the dude I was referring to had a much higher True Skill than me, was a good player and that was just an analogy. You talk big for someone who just seems to ride on other people's arguments, I guess I shouldn't be surprised given your picture. I also never used a streak as a match up, I was using that as an example regarding zoning...know what forget it, you're obviously trolling me at this point.



You don't know me so please stop, most do take me serious just because you and a few others don't means little to me. Keep making assumptions, that was about ONE variation it doesn't change the fact that the zoning in MK X still sucks compared to MK 9. But feel free to argue that, majority on here disagree with you. I mean it's not like 100 other people in here haven't said "well, run, 50/50's, penalized backdashiing etc" but feel free to ignore that. You already got my update post deleted, you're obviously a troll who likes to talk big with nothing to back it up. I'd say play me but we both know that ain't happening so you waste my time. Blocking you so don't bother addressing me anymore, I won't see it. Your saying says it all. Accurate I'm sure.

I'll happily play you lol, free win for me. I'm sure someone who doesn't have me blocked he does would relay that I will.

 

[Baconlord]

. I love how you ignored the fact that the dude I was referring to had a much higher True Skill than me, was a good player and that was just an analogy.

What the fuck is true skill

 

[Wigy]

Never said it did, again analogy. I'm do you not know what an analogy is? That doesn't change the way a character plays. Again, Ermac and Sektor are both played the same way off or online....or the fact that MKX's zoning still lacks compared to MK 9's since we got off topic here a bit. If you feel differently there, fine agree to disagree but majority on this site and in general feel the same way I do regarding the topic itself.

Fine, i'll bite.

Your only justification for their viability was you and your friends online experience where you havent mentioned you playing against anyone who was known. That it why its invalid. You go on about trueskill like it matters AT ALL; christ i beat people who i have a 0% chance of loosing and loose to people who have a 100% loosing on mkx. Online stats actually mean NOTHING, especially against randoms on a shit netcode.

matchup discussion is made at the highest possible level, i.e the best of tournament players. Not randoms on a horrible netcode which completely neuters player ability. The characters are played at the level they need to be generally offline or in private matches between pro level players

I'm well aware of what an analogy is but in the context, your stupid ass is using an analogy as the basis for your entire argument. Thats the only part of your argument i can comment on cause you havent given any legitimate argument.

You're so beyond logical reasoning and lack perspective entirely caught in your online warrior bubble, what are you 15?

And no idea what your on about that avatar comment but i can only assume you're jelly?

 

[Wigy]

What the fuck is true skill

Lol right?

 

[MKF30]

What the fuck is true skill

Ok, I take it you're seriously asking. True Skill is the rank measured based off the skill level of opponents you face. The higher the TS rating, the better the player is. Most from here and tourney players who play online tend to be anywhere from 32-37 range. Anything below that is considered lower. The highest I ever personally got was 36 but once I stopped playing it was 34, it fluctuates based off your wins/loses to other skillful players.

Fine, i'll bite.

Your only justification for their viability was you and your friends online experience where you havent mentioned you playing against anyone who was known. That it why its invalid. You go on about trueskill like it matters AT ALL; christ i beat people who i have a 0% chance of loosing and loose to people who have a 100% loosing on mkx. Online stats actually mean NOTHING, especially against randoms on a shit netcode.

matchup discussion is made at the highest possible level, i.e the best of tournament players. Not randoms on a horrible netcode which completely neuters player ability. The characters are played at the level they need to be generally offline or in private matches between pro level players

I'm well aware of what an analogy is but in the context, your stupid ass is using an analogy as the basis for your entire argument. Thats the only part of your argument i can comment on cause you havent given any legitimate argument.

You're so beyond logical reasoning and lack perspective entirely caught in your online warrior bubble, what are you 15?

Just read above regarding true skill....

No, my justification are how the characters are meant to be played. Ermac is NOT a rushdown character in MK 9 if you think this, you're sadly mistaken. Sektor is versatile, you can literally do anything with him. I used online as an example but the locally tourneys I've competed in in MK 9 I used them the same way, example one match I won to advance against a Cyrax player the guy never got near me with Ermac....sure I do combos when necessary or opportunity presented itself but Ermac is a zoner, through in through.

You seem blinded by this "online warrior" now the "netcode" bs it's blurrying your focus to the main point of this thread, you keep trying to derail it with the "this off topic stuff" bs again for the millionth time dude, it's called an ANALOGY. Do you really want me to post the definition? Also please stop about the "shit netcode" . We get it. Past MK games and games in general had shitty netcode. In other news, Halo 2 played worse than Halo 4. Wow. Who would have thought? I don't give a shit about that, that's in the past not NOW and has nothing to do with the fact that Ermac is a zoner in M K 9 again. I'm talking about a character's archetype and the fact that MK X's zoning sucks compared to MK 9, again a fact you can't deny.

You're the one without justification, that's why you're going off topic with "netcode this, online that" dude I don't care....you also don't have to be a "pro player" to understand that a character's archetype is meant for zoning clearly....There are plenty of people here who don't go to tourneys who understand the fundamentals and are high level players, besides I've been playing MK since MK 1. When was your first MK again? Again, online stats I never went into or cared about in that regard but true skill is a measure of the ability/skill level of people you fight. The lower the number the shittier the players you face. It's there for a reason regardless if you think it's flawed is irrelevant to my point. It's funny you keep calling others stupid when you're here who keeps missing my point...that a 10 year old can grasp, even though I explained myself to you million times. Yet you still don't get it. Sad. That's why you're throwing personal insults now to try to compensate for your lacking argument.

Also I would not be calling others 15 when you think posting half naked pics of yourself is impressing anyone with Johnny Cage cosplay pics. Trying to audition for Jersey Shore bro? lol Jelly? No, why would I be? I'm in shape, my BMI is where I'm supposed to be I just don't feel the need to showboat about it.

 

[LaidbackOne]

Someone here is pretty fucking delusional about their knowledge, lol. True skill ftw!

 

[Wigy]

Still waiting on an argument for how they are proper zoning characters except your online experience. They werent zoning characters in the same way shang, kitana kabal and kenshi were. They had some decent zoning tools among various things.

Tournament level those characters couldnt properly zone out other characters for long at all.

Why dont you stop using analogies in an argument and we can have a less retarded discussion

God forbid i show my cosplay of a mk character i mained on an mk forum? Nobody else has brought it up with anything but positivity. Lol your BMI, you sound like some fat chick going on about her big bones.

 

[MKF30]

“All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusion is called a philosopher.”
― Ambrose Bierce, The Collected Writings Of Ambrose Bierce

Wigy, Why? Again simple because they're made to be zoning characters(namely Ermac here) if you still don't get it, then well you're wrong but you're entitled to your own opinions and beliefs. I already made my argument which regarding the topic majority agree with me on. Nothing more to say. You're wrong if you don't think Kitana, Kenshi, Kabal were zoning characters. Tell that to 16 bit's kitana who is a master zoner with her. "Decent" zoning? lmao...ok then why have people in this very thread said Kenshi had skillless zoning? lol Not my words btw. Just read the thread. I get it you're a Cage player so naturally you hate zoners. Just admit it.

Of course they could, 16 bit did well in tournies with zoning with Kitana from what I could tell. Lots of Kabal instant air fireball zoning(hey is there anything he can't do?) I forget the guys name but he was known for doing well with Ermac at least early on may have been LI Joe, and one other guy at a tourney made noise with Sektor zoning and playing smart. Did you jump on board with MK X? Because you seem unaware of people who won with zoning characters or got far at least. Majority of MK 9 tourneys were Kabal, KL, Sonya etc but other players did get far with some mid tiers here and there. Well, people use analogies all the time...whether the other person understands it, is another story.

If you would just respect others viewpoints we wouldn't be having a silly conversation, you said the "R" word. TYM don't like that word. Fat chick? Don't know are you talking about big bones? Wha? I just don't usually see avatars of guys like that on a gaming site..chicks, yeah guys no but whatever moving on.

Yeah, Ok now you know how I feel with certain opinions. I respectfully disagree with people all the time on here for years, never have an issue. Godforbid someone who has lots of experience with MK since the 90's breaks down why zoning sucked in MK X vs. MK 9..., because it's not like anyone else here said the same thing. Oh wait...

 

[Wigy]

Dude... Go read what i said again.

Im saying sektor and ermac arent and they are. It was a comparison.

Its a cosplay. Thats exactly what cages costume is. The fact you'd even bring it up says volumes

 

[MKF30]

I read what you said, read what I said. Ok, so we agree that they're both zoning characters. Ok, good the rest I'll agree to disagree. That's your view, you're entitled as am I.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Mystic = Spectral > MoS imo

It's hard to say how good or bad MoS is. Any character that is taking 40% meterless off a 50/50, a teleport, broke jump ins, amazing anti air, wins every projectile trade, and has fast pokes by default can't be bad. But the trade off is he is unsafe as shit. You can't rate a guess, so he's hard to tier.