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Match-up Discussion Smoke vs CSZ

FrothyOmen

P!
Premium Supporter
I have been speaking to numerous players about this match-up in the past day or so. I cannot say that I have any real understanding of it, and I'd like to open up a discussion on this topic in particular so we may all gain a better understanding of how to approach it.

I have no material to start with, so I'm just going to tag a bunch of people and hopefully you can teach everyone some nice things.

xSMoKEx
Wafflez
GGA soonk
GuamoKun
rev0lver
UsedForGlue
J360
matterovermind
Jer
 

Jer

I'm a literal Sloth
Divekick BLOWS smoke up, almost for free. He serious can't punish it from close at all. You need to be perfectly spaced and time a B2 to hit in order to punish it. Other than that, I literally couldn't move vs J360 when we played this MU. You really need to bait and use smoke bomb.
 

GuamoKun

I Break Hearts, Not Combos
Premium Supporter
Gimmicks and bomb setups work nicely against him.

It's like "oh noes I should wake up to avoid bomb"

And CSZ is like "LOLDIVEKICK" smokes wake ups aren't tooooo good in this MU.

But I don't let it get to that point. I time out smoke
 

trustinme

xbl-OBS trustinme
whats a cyber sub zero?



So I wasnt crazy thinking this mu is surprisingly dificult on top of having 0 csz experience.
i have the majority of the cast turned into sick sex acts but im really struggling to come up with a cyber subzero
 

EGP Awesomo

R.T.S.D
About 2 months back when I really started to pick up smoke I played Krayzie's CSZ, this match up is horrible me thinks. I couldn't really do anything once he was inside dive kick range.
 

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
Premium Supporter
lol this matchup is a weird one. CSZ can be very annoying against smoke when played right seeing as how dive kicks are annoying for smoke both as a check and mobility option. I've played a billion smokes and the hardest time ive had is against a smoke that gets the lead and runs away. Even then it feels like a straight up 5-5. Otherwise its always felt like its in CSZ favor
 

matterovermind

mindundermatter
I got blown up hard by a CSZ player who was just abusing the shit out of dive kick. This is truly an annoying MU for smoke. I'm not comfortable (inexperienced really) setting a number, but I'd lean towards CSZ having some kind of an advantage. For the smoke players, It's obvious you've got to play kind of safe, patient and lame.
 

GamerBlake90

Catch me if you can!
Premium Supporter
Cyber Sub-Zero just...suffers in this match-up.

Given that Smoke is an effective anti-zoner, attempting to toss out Ice Bombs from any kind of range is out of the question as you risk eating a Smoke Bomb which could potentially lead to resets. Random freeze blasts will fail too - start-up is too slow. Your best bet is to make adequate use of the divekick to control the air as well as your movement, but if the Smoke punishes a whiffed divekick with a bomb, you'll get mind-fucked.

Up-close combat - Smoke might win in this area, too. Cyber Sub-Zero's normals aren't exactly something to brag about, more so his shitty poking game.
 

FrothyOmen

P!
Premium Supporter
Blake, the only thing CSZ needs in this MU is his divekick. Literally divekick infinites on smoke. Smoke can't punish it, the best he can do is off of a bad divekick that hit high is check with a b2 leaving smoke at a 0f situation at point blank. It's not a bad situation by any means but smoke literally has to just fish for that situation to do something. CSZ is able to do some stupid traps to smoke too off of some knockdowns with bombs into divekicks... all escapable but if smoke tries to escape and CSZ reads that lol blocked telepunch into combo. Smoke has to work overtime in this MU and CSZ doesn't need to ever spend meter unless its on breakers, so resets barely even matter in this MU

fuck csz
 

GuamoKun

I Break Hearts, Not Combos
Premium Supporter
Blake, the only thing CSZ needs in this MU is his divekick. Literally divekick infinites on smoke. Smoke can't punish it, the best he can do is off of a bad divekick that hit high is check with a b2 leaving smoke at a 0f situation at point blank. It's not a bad situation by any means but smoke literally has to just fish for that situation to do something. CSZ is able to do some stupid traps to smoke too off of some knockdowns with bombs into divekicks... all escapable but if smoke tries to escape and CSZ reads that lol blocked telepunch into combo. Smoke has to work overtime in this MU and CSZ doesn't need to ever spend meter unless its on breakers, so resets barely even matter in this MU

fuck csz
b-but CSZ and Smoke are da bess frens of MK
 

McNasty

Moist.
Premium Supporter
man... I cant even recall the csz bomb traps frothy mentioned but wouldnt smoke away be our go to wake up to avoid these?
 

FrothyOmen

P!
Premium Supporter
man... I cant even recall the csz bomb traps frothy mentioned but wouldnt smoke away be our go to wake up to avoid these?
Yea I'm just downplaying by ignoring that lol. Those bomb traps are gimmicks but dive kick is a serious problem for smoke