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Match-up Discussion Smoke Vs (Combatant)

arydious

Noob
I do not know all the fancy forum tools to post this really nice and clean for the eyes to see, but ill work on it over time. The important thing is the information is here. If you need to find someone realy quick use CTRL-F to find them quickly

This thread will contain match up discussion. I will not include combos or any of the moves because they are cover in other threads. All match ups are subject to change

Moves and basic combos are here, some of this stuff is still good most outdated though. http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?2694-GUIDE-Smoke

Advanced combos and strategy is here, with frame traps. http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?9203-Wrath-of-the-Jackalope-First-Edition-(Smoke-Kombos-and-Frame-Traps)

What shake can and can't beat http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?7140-Parryable-Projectiles

I will say either advantage, even, or disadvantage. I will not give an advantage number.

Feel free to disagree and or agree and add your own experience to the mix. I will keep this updated regularly so the smoke army can keep up to date on match ups.

Lastly, I do not claim to be an expert, or the best. Some of the information will be from my experience, and some is what I have gathered from the forums. I am just trying to help out the community, by placing as much information in one thread as I can. If you want to flame or troll me personally send me a message and let’s keep this thread clean.

Thanks to http://testyourmight.com/forum/showt...ll=1#post60542 this thread helped me with some of my incomplete knowledge

I will do my best to keep this thread updated with the most current tactics, but remember I do not go over a button for button way to beat a character this are the strategies to help you understand the match better, not a guaranteed victory you can still get out played.

Remember Smoke is a counter character, he relies a lot on reading people and being able to counter them.

Vs Baraka

Advantage

This match is not to tough. Your real goal here is to bate and punish Baraka. He absolutely needs to get in close on you to do anything if he stands far away to use spark you can just shake it and start your oki game. Watch out for his wake-ups and punish them. The other notable thing about Baraka is do not jump in at him, he can use the chop chop to punish you. You can also bate him to jump towards you and perform an air teleport to punish and start your oki game

Vs Cyber Sub Zero (CSZ)

Advantage

Your general goal is to stay away and bait freeze blasts. He beats you up close, and you beat him from far away. However, if he does get in and get a life lead, you may need to launch a counter assault because he can turtle pretty safely against you.

Early jump kicks beat his dive kicks, and if you catch him low enough you get 38% to his 7% (or 18% with meter). That's way in your favor, so try to stop his dive kick pressure that way (watch his meter though - his x-ray beats jump kicks and looks just like he's going in for a normal dive kick). He can mix it up with jump punches to beat your jump kicks, but he doesn't get too much damage off of that either if you're in the air. Beat jump punches with a backwards jump kick.

At long range, a trade between smoke bomb and freeze is in his favor, as he gets a full combo. However, smoke bomb is much faster than freeze, so it's still safe to pressure with that if he's blocking for free meter. Just make sure to block the incoming freeze. He might learn that slide beats smoke bomb clean (it'll whiff), so if he figures that out be more conservative with smoke bombs.

Shake is by far the best way to deal with freezes if you know they're coming. It's safe and the damage is unavoidable. This means that Cyber Sub can't really zone you too well.

Up close is where Cyber Sub has the advantage. He has fast high/lows that you'll have trouble out-prioritizing. Don't be afraid to EX:shake or bait him for a mistake and punish him, b2, 3 can be your best friend in this fight because they often forget about the range on it. Be aware of his wake up slide, its punishable but can catch you off guard.


If you're noticeably behind on life and he's turtling you, you may need to rush him down. It's very hard to do so, but it's sometimes necessary. Cross-up punches, as always, are a good way to get some damage, as they screw up his parry input. Your combos greatly out damage his, so one clean hit should be enough to go back to a spacing game. Watch out for parries - they're fast. Sweep if you think it's coming then go for a cross up jump punch on wake up. On a CSZ teleport be careful, he could be baiting you to hit his parry giving him some free damage and allowing him to apply the pressure to you, my advice his jump kick back away on teleport to avoid being bated.

Vs Cyrax

Disadvantage

This can be a real tough fight, but not just for smoke. Cyrax has amazing bomb resets and is fast. Also shake will not work in this battle against his net. You will want to avoid being in the air in this battle, he has some amazing tools to catch you out of the air. Stay close to him to prevent the bomb game with him and apply oki pressure. If he is full screen try to bait a net or bomb so you can throw a smoke bomb, then be careful not to get hit by the net or bomb. Watch out for his reverse kick wake up This battle comes down to a lot of baiting.

Vs Ermac

Advantage

Ermac is deadly if you’re a dumb. If you allow him to punish you, then you’re going to eat a lot of damage. You have advantage at full screen, disadvantage at mid screen, and are about even close up.

At full screen, throw smoke bombs and hold block right after. If Ermac tries to fireball, it trades with smoke bomb in your favor (8% to 12% even without a combo, and you get okizime). If he tries to teleport punch on reaction to your bombs, you'll block it and he'll eat a combo. Try to vary your timing on the bombs, as he can only teleport punch if he correctly guesses the timing of your bomb and teleports at the same time. Smart Ermacs will realize this disadvantage and will block-dash to about mid screen. You need to counter his spacing with your own teleports.

At mid screen, your goal is to get in or get out. Ermac beats you badly here. If you jump, he can force push you out of it. If you throw a smoke bomb, he can threaten to jump punch in on you for huge damage. You need to block-dash in or out and not try anything risky.

Up close, both of you are about the same threat level. Ermac's 2, 2 combo is decently fast but you can duck under it cleanly. His B+1, 1, 4 combo hits special mid but is very slow, so if you're crouching you can poke out of it. Either of these combos leads to very big damage, however, so watch out. Meanwhile, you have your 42% combo with 3, D+1, 2, and you can threaten a fast overhead with B+2 for 35%, and you have a fast sweep for 7% + okizime. Watch out for his 2,1 string, he has an advantage on this string.

If you score a knockdown, Ermac has no answer to cross up jump punch on wakeup. Do that into a sweep/overhead/throw mixup..

Vs Jade

Advantage

If you know to watch out for enhanced Shadow Flash and her enhanced Boomerang reset, then you're in good shape.

Before talking about your game plan, it's important to know how to deal with some of the tricks that Jade has. The first is her enhanced Shadow Flash. It has super armor, so you can't do anything against her or you'll eat a full combo. It doesn't last very long though, and she'll be sure to try to rush you down during that time, so if you can escape or block the string she attempts then you're fine. Stay on your toes and watch her meter to make sure you don't attack during the enhanced flash.

Jade also has a reset that can lead to enormous damage but is very easy to avoid. When Jade ends a combo, she can whiff an enhanced boomerang. It'll come back just in time for you to stand up. If it hits you, she gets a free combo. If you see her toss an enhanced boomerang, stay blocking as you wake up to avoid eating a second combo.

Your long range game plan is to counter her usual patterns. You have all of the tools you need to mess up whatever she throws at you. Shake counters all boomerangs. Jade is used to being able to Shadow Flash through projectiles, but Smoke Bomb doesn't actually count as a projectile, so you might be able to score some surprise bombs on her, especially on wake up where Jade is used to countering meaty projectiles with a wake up flash.

Up close, you only really need to watch out for Jade's overhead combos. Her staff overhead is so slow that if you're looking for it, you can uppercut her out of it. She only has one low string and it doesn't lead to anything, so pay more attention to her overheads. Her rushdown is pretty weak, so you should be able to handle it. Meanwhile, you have a stronger mixup game (thanks to your faster sweep) and get higher rewards, and you have enhanced shake to get out of jail if need be, so you're in good shape at point blank. Just watch out for random enhanced Shadow Flashes.

Vs Jax

Advantage

Jax can be deceptive but he is very readable. Watch out for the superman punch (dash punch), they like to do that at the start, which can beat your b2, 3. Shake will work against his energy wave but not his ground pound so watch out he could try to bait that. He also has an air grab, so don’t bank on landing your grab over his. Wait for him to do a ground slam, use smoke towards to punish him on it. He relies heavily on his command grabs, watch for them and punish them. Use your mind games on him, sweep until he is down block then hit him with a b2, 3. In the latest patch Jax got a lot of armor added to hos moves, This makes him extra deadly now.

Vs Johnny Cage

Disadvantage

This is a tough fight he can really close this distance with his shadow kicks, and he has a really safe wake up attack. Once he gets in he doesn’t like to leave you alone. Bait his shadow kicks, and punish them, don’t let him stay in play your game and get out. Be weary of jumping against him he can activate his flip kick on the drop of a dime. You can shake his projectiles but he might fake it for a shadow kick. Be prepared to be very jedi like and activate enhanced shake if you just can’t get away. Also Johnny does not like to let you perform wake up attacks, by ending all his combos with a nut punch, if this happens EX smoke away/towards to get out. If you escape him be ready to punish him because he will come charging at you quick. Many Johnny players will use 21 f2 to try to catch you with that last over head hit from a far distance, this will end in a dash f3 dash f3 nutpunch. Leaving you at his mercy. Lucky for us we know about this and can trick him to doing it then use smoke away or towards and play your game.

Vs Kabal

Disadvantage

For the love of everything good do not jump against kabal, between his instant air blast and EX nomad dash it will almost always end badly for you. The nomad dash is very punishable by smoke though, and Kabal uses it a lot, so watch for it and punish it. Kabal loves to end a combo with his saw blades, this will often force you to jump right after getting up or crouch block, if you jump prepare to eat more damage he wanted you to jump. Stay crouch blocking to avoid getting hit by the blades or shake them. Stay in close to kabal, and apply oki pressure, his EX nomad dash wake up, is invincible so watch out for that. Otherwise play the rock paper scissors, and apply either combos, grab, or sweep. Condition him to block low then pull out a b2,3 combo. Don’t play his game stick to smokes game. If he gets in to do the block trap against you, EX shake or teleport out. Also if you see him jump you can bait him to do instant air blast, and then punish him with a teleport.

Vs Kano

Even

Kano is a beast, but you can shake his knifes if he wants to throw them which helps a lot. Secondly watch out for up ball it is wicked fast and not punishable, he can use it to close the distance or punish you for about anything. Kano like to get in and put you on the ground, then switch between his high or low start up combos, or grab The overhead is a little slower so you can read it better and block accordingly. If you don't see the overhead you know to down block or get ready for a grab. So do your best to not end up on the ground because for some reason he seems to beat most wake up attacks. If he uses cannonball just get ready to punish it. He will almost always wake up with up ball, follow him where he lands and do a quick sweep or b2, 3 combo. Lastly be really careful of his X-ray, it does 41% and is a grab so if he is jump distance away from you he can land it and end the entire game.

Vs Kitana

Disadvantage

Kitana is really fast and can throw fans like crazy. Shake those fans down. If you jump she will try to catch you with up to 4 fans and or a long combo, if she jumps, teleport and punish her then apply pressure. You want to stay in close to her so she can’t throw those fans at you. She is still very capable up close; her fan lift can put you in a world of hurt. Keep her guessing on what you are going to do, and stay offensive, so she can’t mount a full offense against you.

Vs Kratos (PS3 only)

Even

Kratos has many tools at his disposal, his bow can be shot rapily and it does a good amount of damage. He can also do a couple fo 4-5 hit combos that will send you 6 feet under real fast. Kratos also has the ability to parry, the timing is a little strict on it though. Kratos is full of deceit and cancels, basically you need to counter his attacks, after all smoke is a counter player. If he shoots the bow, show no mercy shake and then run in for the sweep. I say sweep just in case he set up a parry. After a couple of sweeps go for the B2,3 amd you will keep him messed up. You can also bait his dash, for a full punish with what ever combo you want. Really watch for his parry the EX version will pop you into the air, resulting in you losing 40% life.

Vs Kung Lao

Disadvantage

At full screen he can only toss his hat at you and teleport. Hat loses to shake and smoke bomb badly. He can teleport, but you can uppercut that on reaction. His only real options are block-dashing, whiffing a dive kick, and Ex: teleport. If you see him jump in the air go for an air teleport, even try to bait his dive kick.

Up close, Lao absolutely wrecks you. Spin beats out all of your normals, and you have a very hard time punishing it with your slow normals. He can mix it up with throws, a very fast low combo into spin, and his usual 1, 1, 2 spin. You can't win at point blank, and your primary goal is to get him off of you. Ex Shake can be a good move. Your sweep goes under his 1, 1, 2 and out-ranges most of what he has. Block dashing backwards can work, as can Ex teleport. If you’re up close rely on your poke’s and poke cancels into smoke bomb to really mess with his head.

Don't ever jump. He can punish it on reaction at any range. From far away, he gets a free dive kick. Up close, he gets a spin into a combo.

Vs Liu Kang

Even

Tools for him
SPECIALS:
*Fire Ball HIT LEVEL:H - standard fire ball, safe from mid to far range, unsafe at close ranges.

*Low Fire Ball HIT LEVEL: L - low version of fire ball, safe from mid to far range, unsafe at closer ranges.

*Air Fire Ball HIT LEVEL:H - air version of fire ball. safe in most situations.

*Flying Kick HIT LEVEL:H - fast flying kick. decent ranged punisher. on block gets punished by combo of choice.

*Bicycle Kick HIT LEVEL:M - very unsafe on block, doesnt do much on hit, not even good in combos. this move is basically worthless.

*Parry HIT LEVEL:parries H,M, and Throws - 8% parry. catches moves that hit high and mid. will get hit by lows. unsafe on wiff.


MOVES:
* Fire Ball HIT LEVEL:H - more damaging version of the standard fire ball.

* Low Fire Ball HIT LEVEL: L - more damaging version of the standard low fire ball.

* Air Fire Ball HIT LEVEL:H - more damaging version of the standard air fire ball.

* Flying Kick HIT LEVEL:H - more damaging version of the standard flying kick.

* Bicycle Kick HIT LEVEL:M - more damaging version of the standard bicycle kick.

* Parry HIT LEVEL:parries H,M, and Throws - same properties as standard parry only it launches now.

Don't let him corner you.

Liu Kang can't beat your range game. Bad Liu Kangs or Liu Kangs who aren't familiar with the matchup may try their fireball/flying kick mixup to try to hit shakes. You can shake fireballs on reaction, so don't sweat those. Punish flying kicks. The only way he can land one is by guessing your shake and doing it at the exact same time. Be careful with smoke bombs - flying kick beats them.

Another piece of preliminary information before attempting the matchup is how to deal with his mixups. A lot of people seem to think he has 50/50 strings, but that's really not the case. He does have strings that hit low and mid, but not in the same spot, so you can actually block them both without guessing. Block the first hit of his strings low and the third hit high. If you do that, he can't mix you up like that.

There's nothing really special about the way this matchup plays except for his corner pressure. As always, you beat him from full screen but can't really pressure him, and he can put decent pressure on you if you're up close. You want to zone him and force him to make a mistake. Important to know he does not have any combos that start with an overhead, just some that end with an overhead so a down block on start is safe.

The one particularly nasty thing that Liu has is his corner pressure. If you get hit by a combo, you'll be carried about halfway to the corner. Once you're in the corner, his pressure is pretty nasty. His meaty strings usually beat wakeup attacks, but Smoke has an ace in the hole. Smoke's enhanced teleport on wakeup is totally invincible and will get you out of the corner no questions asked for only one bar. That beats what almost everyone else can do (most ends up breaking a combo). Basically watch for him at full screen and bait those flying kicks, then punish the crap out of it. Watch out for his parry its precise timing but can still get you on wake up.

Vs Mileena

Even

Watch out for her d4 it is a big pain to his because of its really low hit box, it has the ability to avoid your b2 3 starter.. Mileena is a very fast paced character with lots of change up. Do not block low against her she will use her overhead attack u3 against you. Mileena will try to close the distance and because she has instant air sai's this will help her keep smoke from jumping. If she catches you in the air with a sai she can end it with a combo in the 30% range. When Mileena teleport kicks she will always use her Sai after because it throws people off and she is able to escape most punishes like this. Be ready and try to get her with a smoke bomb out fo it or start your main BnB combo. Your goal is to keep her away, you zone game can destroy her because she can't use her's against you. Always stand block because she can only sweep or poke you for damage rather than full combo. She could try her b3 b4 sweep combo, this is deceptively far range but very readable and puts her at frame disadvantage so drop some bomb and combo or go in for the JIP.

Vs Nightwolf

Disadvantage

Nightwolf is a beast, although he can’t reflect smokes, smoke bomb he can cause smoke some problems. His shoulder charge is very fast and his hatchet swing can be an anti air against us. You have to always be careful of the lightning, but you can punish it with a teleport. Nightwolf will try to get in close because smoke can shake down the arrows he fires, so he will most likely shoulder charge to close the distance, a well timed smoke bomb can make him regret this. If he does start getting close and your not happy with it, EX shake or EX smoke towards/away. Force him to make a mistake them mount your offensive oki pressure to keep him messed up. Remember the shoulder charge is a wake up but you can punish it with a quick 21 smoke bomb.

Vs Noob

Advantage

Noob usually excels at long range. His shadow tackle is faster than most other ranged options and it hits overhead, he can threaten with a low projectile, and when he makes the enemy crouch to avoid the low, he can teleport in or just continue chipping. This is usually what a Noob player will try to do to opponents, and his game revolves around getting back into this position.

Smoke's shake totally undermines this whole strategy. It ignores the low mixup completely and you can do it on reaction to all of his projectiles if you're sharp. Shake also recovers fast enough that even if the Noob player baits it and tries to punish it on reaction, you'll be able to block and punish in time. Noob can try to predict your shake and teleport at the same time, but doing so is extremely in your favor. He gets 10% off of a successful prediction while you get 42%. So long as you watch for random x-rays, you should crush him from this far away.

Since you beat him so badly at range, Noob has to get close to you. The problem for him is that you still have an advantage there. Noob only has one mixup. It starts with B+1, 2, and from there he can to F+4 for a low or B+1, 4 for an overhead into a special. Most of the time Noob players go for the overhead because the payoff is so much better, but even if he lands the whole string it's at most 23%. Meanwhile, yours is much, much higher, and you can get big payoffs from hits that he gets very little from (such as a jump kick, 38% for you and 7% for him). You also boast a faster sweep and much faster overhead, meaning you should be getting more hits in than he does.

Last point to watch out for is that he can teleport in the air. Stay blocking while he's jumping. He may try to bait anti-airs this way, but again if you catch him it's 42% for you and only 10% for him.

The numbers are in your favor for this matchup. Just play solidly, erring on the side of caution. Noob has to take big risks to win this matchup, so just watch out for them and punish appropriately.

Vs Quan Chi

Advantage

Quan Chi does not have to much as for weapons in this game, he has some nice change up combos but none of which are round enders. His teleport is something to be aware of it is fast and relatively safe. Quan Chi really has to read you perfectly to pull off most of his move, over all this should be an easy fight, bait him from a far, and smoke bomb to get those combos rolling. Also oki pressure should end this guy quick, he has only the his teleport as a wakeup and most of your moves will beat it, unless it’s enhanced. A good Quan Chi player likes to combo into the zombie attack, which leads to more damage, avoid it.

Vs Raiden

Even

Personally Raiden is not a big deal, unless online where you should just quit. Raiden players rely heavily on their torpedo, which is highly punishable. You can bait the torpedo off of wake, ups or just by giving him the distance, this always results in a big punish combo for smoke. His lightning bolt is nice but smoke has shake so he will only try it to catch you off guard. Raiden players like to bait you to jump at them so they can use thier b3 start, which leads to over 30% combo, really watch out because Raidens leg seems to stretch to hit you, it like a mile long.
Raiden players love to mount a heavy offense on you by teleporting in and doing a couple of different things, grab, torpedo, combo, or sweep. Watch out if they teleport and sweep multiple times they are setting you up for an overhead hit to apply some damage to you. When ever you see Raiden teleport either do d3, or d4. It will stop the grabs, sweeps, and combos, but not a torpedo. Smokes poke is fast enough that you can block the torpedo as well. This really messes up raidens game here. He can also go for a crossup, by no means should you be ducking when he does, almost always ends bad for smoke. If he jumps over either teleport or do an instant jump away kicks to prevent the onslaught. If you mess up Raidens up close game he will get nervy and try to find something else by crouch blocking which you can punish with b2, 3. Be aware of how to counter his after teleport game and this battle becomes easy.Raidens EX Teleport got a buff and is faster now, it also doesn't have to finish before he can start a combo so remember that.

Vs Reptile

Advantage

The Reptile match-up is pretty simple. Most Reptile players after knocking you down try to Acid Ball to zone you so you have the option to wake-up with Shake or Teleport (I prefer shake). You also have to watch out for the slide so advance with caution and constant Dash>low >Dash>low etc. maybe throw a Smoke Cloud in there to keep them in check. Watch out for Acid Balls/Spits when you jump in. Getting hit by Acid Balls will cause you to take at least 36% dmg from juggleing and getting hit by an Acid Spit will do 8% damage and put you at their feet. Reptile can do a quick combo into Acid Ball juggle or a slower one for more damage. The faster one I believe (not sure about the starting 3 hits) it's :f Acid Ball, reptilian elbow, + , , Acid Ball. The slower one is the Acid Ball into the same combo. So that is what can really hurt you. Other than that don’t worry too much about their zoning, don't random teleport either, watch out for Slides, Shake when cornered or rushed down (hope they don’t sweep or low hit). They don’t really turn invisible but if they do then just Smoke Cloud because of its huge radius so they won't be able to jump right away.

Vs Scorpion

Even

The match-up against Scorpion is pretty tricky. The dangers of being aggressive are being hit by either Teleports or Spears. The dangers of being too defensive are getting hit by Hellfire’s. When fighting Scorpion you can be aggressive on their wake-up, they don't have much that can get them out of a wake up , + , other than Teleport. The Scorpion Hellfire is unblockable as well as uncounterable. The full screen block contest is in Scorpion's favor. Scorpion can Hellfire all day while you’re Smoke Cloud does not chip and it leaves you vulnerable for a Teleport. Jumping is ideal in this situation. When fighting a talented Scorpion they will try to Spear anti-air you, when you see them spear you can teleport. Hit or whiff it's in smoke's favor because you can land and , + , before they can , , spear you. After blocking , , you should + because they will most likely follow up with a Takedown or Spear(this will whiff), and then you can punish. Sometimes they will Hellfire if they're expecting the low . So it's up to you to read your opponent's decision. These are things to watch out for and keep in mind. The rest is up to you as a player to read your opponent and decide what you'll be doing

Scorpion, is a tough battle for both sides, this match really comes down to who reads the other person more. Do your best to bait those spears because you have years to punish a whiffed spear, but what out for his teleport, the EX one is not punishable and will follow you with the second hit. Lastly a good scorpion will end big combos with EX hellfire, there is nothing you can do about this, and it is not escapable.

Vs Sektor

Advantage

There's no magic way to beat Sektor, but there are a few things you can know and watch out for that will help you out.

Sektor has a straight missile and an up missile. You can shake both of these on reaction. Again, unless he guesses exactly when you shake, he can't teleport uppercut you from full screen.

Teleport uppercut has a few notes associated with it that you should know. Interestingly, it's not a physical attack. That means that enhanced shake won't beat it. Be careful about that. On wakeup, it has a lot of invincibility, so be careful with meaty attacks when he's getting up. The enhanced version is completely safe on block. He can also do an instant air teleport which is, really hard to read and they bait for it a lot. Remember if he hits with a teleport your going to eat a combo, a few combos from him and your dead.

Sektor's flamethrower stuffs absolutely everything in its range. You need to blockdash close enough while you're within its zone to threaten a cross-up jumping attack. Everything else will lose to it. If you block dash up you can bait him into a flamethrower so you can drop a smoke bomb on him.

Sektor has a high/low mixup in B+3 and U+3, 4. Start blocking low and if you see his leg rise, block high. That'll take care of most of his mixup. He rarely does U+3, 3 because B+3 are the same thing but faster.

With all of these things in mind, read your opponent and note his tendencies. Respond to them appropriately. Smoke definitely has the tools to win this one.

Vs Shang Tsung

Even

Shang Tsung is an interesting character, watch out for his ground fireballs they can make you eat a large amount of damage, and are very hard to shake on reaction. Do not stand still in this match up because of his fireballs. Really pressure shang tsung up close he wants the distance and also wants to save his meter for doing powerful combos. Take advanatage of that and combo him as much as possible, he doesn’t have much to do to you up close so apply oki pressure and watch out for the soul steal wake up.

Vs Sheeva

Advantage

Sheeva is an underrated player. She can dish out a lot of damage with a little bit of hits, but she needs to be close to do it. When she gets in close avoid low blocking, her heaviest combos come from the low grab she can do. When your full screen keep checking her with smoke bombs, but watch out for her air stomp, if you see her do it, perform an instant back kick, which will normally put her out, then apply oki pressure. You also need to watch your jump ins against her because of her air grab, Remember Sheeva is basically a wrestler most of her damage comes off of grab combos.

Vs Sindel

Advantage

Sindel relies heavily on her projectile game, which as we all know, smoke destroys on anyone. She has a very large mix up, when she is up close but her damage is lacking. She also has very little answers for constant pressure against her. Her only wake up is step up which you can easily block and throw a smoke bomb down against.

Vs Smoke

Even

If you are playing smoke vs smoke, its tough the match is all about reads. Best bet is to formulate a strategy of your own to really counter a mirror. Just think about what you do and try to read and bait better than the other guy

Vs Sonya

Advantage

Sonya is a tricky girl to get your hands on, she is very fast, but smoke nullifies her projectile which helps. You need to watch out for her military stance some of her biggest combo’s start from here. She is also an amazing anti air character, with her arc kick, air throw, and air drop its best to not get into the air unless your baiting so you can punish with a teleport. On the ground she is quick but with good reads you can easily punish her and make her eat a lot of damage, remember your low pokes will cancel into teleport or smoke bomb to really abuse her. Watch out for her wakeups she has three of them that can hit in different places, generally she will try to get out with arc kick so you can smoke bomb her when she lands to punish that. Her lag grab can be deceptive, but it has a long recovery and you can make her eat your main bread and butter combo. She is really fast which may seem overwhelming but just remember how she hits and block accordingly

Vs Stryker

Advantage

Stryker recieved quite a buff from the last patch, I still think we have the advantage on him because were able to shake his projectiles. HIs roll now has armor on it when he uses the :en version, and its faster. I have still not face to many strykers to write up a full guide to him yet.

Vs Sub-Zero

Even

Strategy: Sub-Zero is a zoning character. You're an anti-zoning character. Outzone him and force him to make mistakes.

Don't rush in on him when he throws down an ice clone. Wait for ice blasts and punish with shake. Be sure to block incoming slides and punish. He'll eventually learn that he has to come to you, as he has absolutely no options to deal with your ranged game.

Unfortunately, Sub-Zero has pretty good rushdown. He can threaten a quick mid or low at pretty much any time. His damage is decent, especially if he has full meter.

That means that you need to force him try to get in, but not actually let him in. Punish his mistakes as he tries to get in, and if/when he does get in, be very careful. Don't jump to get in on him. He can threaten an ice clone at any point if he detects that you'll get aggressive, so stay calm. Cross-up jump punches are good against him if you need to launch an offense.

This match is all about getting someone to make mistakes. He can aggravate you into doing something stupid and punish pretty well. However, remember that you control the pace of the match, so make sure that you're the one causing the frustration, and capitalize on his mistakes with your big damage combos.

The fight against Sub-Zero isn't really that bad since Sub-Zero can't zone Smoke due to lack to teleport or even an anywhere on screen unblockable (Hellfire). The main thing to watch out for is that slide which can catch people off guard and it knocks down. Also blocking Sub-Zero's , , (3rd hit is an overhead... high)combo opens up an amazing opportunity to quickly dash cancel into , + , combo. Ice clones you really shouldn't worry too much about them since you can stay away with Smoke Clouds or Teleports. The only time you should be careful when Sub-Zero clones is when jumping in. A talented Sub-Zero player will Ice Clone to counter your jump in. Even then it's hard to time since Sub-Zero can't clone if you're anywhere face-to-face with him. So I BELIEVE (not sure) that jumping over Sub-Zero is Clone-proof. Once again, a well-timed slide is an anti-air. Watch out for the X-Ray, don't underestimate the X-ray. It travels pretty far. When Sub-Zero has X-ray watch out on your jump ins, start blocking on their wake-up, don't teleport unless you combo. As for Counter idk if it can stop moves.
 

GGA Wafflez

the kid
awesome job w/ the descriptions... i have a lot of sheeva matchup exp haha... you can bully her if she has no meter up close... so you want to get the knockdown... if she does have meter, she can wake up grab (not the anti-air) which technically isn't an anti-air but acts as one, and has insane range... at far range, you not only have to watch out for her tele stomp, but also her ground pound, its slow and can be punished w/ smoke bomb depending on the stance, or tele punch (time is extremely strict on this because she can stomp you out of it when you end up behind her and get a knockdown o noz!)
 

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
Good job there I main kabal but i use to play Smoke and still do. Regarding Scorpion and his Ex teleport you can do d4~ teleport for 10% or d4~ ex smoke and juggle for 30%+ instead of blocking of course.
 
awesome post. about quan chi and johnny cage: its mostly right, quan chi has some good low hits to beat your wakeup though and i doubt you can smoke towards/away after johnnys nutpunch reset if he follows with f3
 

kandehbar

The Gryphon
The only ones i dont agree with is

Nightwolf - You can D3 nightwolf out of shoulder since you go so low when you do it and you can even D3 it on wake up. You can D3 ex Shoulder if you time it right but you need to hit it twice and the timing is strict

Reptile - Reptile and kable are smokes worst match ups in any shape or form - DASH......IS........GODLIKE. Smart reptiles slow ball and dash in to cover it before you can shake it. There pressure strings are to really godlike but you just need to be patient.
 
Thanks for making this thread. I know there already is something like this but if we can uncover some more matchup specific notes all in one place the numbers really don't mean a thing.

I don't agree with Cyber Sub being an advantage for Smoke. Yes CSZ can not zone Smoke, just as the entire cast can not but Smoke does not really have anything to keep CSZ out. CSZ has the fastest dash in the game, and if that was not bad enough close whiffed dive kicks can speed him right in your face. Once in close CSZ has the advantage as you pointed out. That in itself is enough for CSZ to have advantage over Smoke in the match up.

Shang is advantage Smoke. Shang's normals are so slow that Smoke can telepunch every string on reaction lol. No fireballs for Shang as Smoke can get away and literally just shake while Shang sits there and trys to close the distance. Once he gets close you can dash cancel the shake and go to work on him.

Reptile has advantage over Smoke. Very hard to counter his dash pressure.

Sonya has advantage over Smoke. Pretty much for the same reasons as CSZ. You can not keep her out, and she beats Smoke up close.


That is it for now. I am by no means an elite player but those are the characters that I think should be changed and a brief why. The write up is very nice but it points out that Smoke can beat peoples zoning which is kind of misleading. Yes Smoke crushes zoning, but people with match up experience against Smoke do not try to zone him. Hell even some first time Noob players will stop trying to throw shadows by round 2.
 

Evrain

Noob
Mileena's ball roll does not require a low block as it is not considered a low attack. Standing block can punish this.
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
From the match up discussion thread. I'll be doing a write up for jax next.

Cyrax: 4:6

Best tournament player I have experience against: Darth Arma

In my opinion, Cyrax is the strongest character in the game (bordering on broken) and totally shits on Kung Lao big time. Here's why.

Cyrax has absurdly threatening zoning. He can pepper the screen with bombs (which are unblockable) and lead to his 60-80% juggles, and has the best capture projectile in the game (net) which also leads to his 60-80% juggles (lol). Cyrax can turn a full screen game into a death trap maze where if you don't read the bombs right you're fucked. And that's only half his game.

Luckily for us, Smoke completely shuts down bomb/net shenanigans; if cyrax ever throws a bomb outside of a combo it's a free Tpunch punish, or smoke bomb if you're quick, so you don't have to worry about that.

Watch out for naked net from about half screen. Cyrax players have a tendency to do this and jumping over it is out of the question. Net has a higher hit box than the empire state building. If you're quick you can shake it, but if it catches you off guard just block. Be extra safe. You don't want to get hit with net ever.

BUT, Cyrax is incredibly powerful up close as well. And, to be perfectly honest, you're going to want to spend most of your time running away waiting for an opening.

Even if you block, cyrax is ridiculously dangerous. if cyrax forces you to block an attack you get sucked into his command grab 50/50; you have to guess whether he's going to command grab or keep throwing strings. If you guess wrong you eat 60-80% or get reset into the same situation. If you guess right, all you get is a relief from pressure (with a sweep or poke or tech). Biggest bullshit risk/reward scenario in the game. It's best to avoid this at all costs.

You want to approach Cyrax similarly to Kung Lao, but with obvious differences. Cyrax doesn't have the outright rushdown pressure that KL has, so he's vulnerable to poke pressure (d+1, d+4 > b+2) if you're ballsy enough to get in his face. He's just as vulnerable from sweep distance as KL but don't hang out there too long or you risk getting netted. Check Cyrax with b2,3s from sweep and hit confirm into smoke bomb or drift away.

Teleport is punishable as hell, but don't wait too long. You want to be throwing attacks at the sparkly shit that appears beside you before his limbs even come onto the screen. Otherwise, it will be too late and he can block it.

The real silver lining in this fight is the wake-up game. Cyrax's is balls. The only even remotely threatening thing he can wake up with is EX ragdoll which is no big deal. This means that you can really hammer away at him after a knockdown. Pressure the shit out of him with meaty 3d12s and b23s every time.

Because of this you want to fish for a knock down with sweep more against cyrax than any other character.

Also, be careful on jump ins. He's got his goofy air throw that can pull you down, but it ain't no hat spin.



Reptile: 4.5:5.5

Best tournament player I have experience against: Chris G

Reptile can be rough but it's doable.

First, reptile has a nasty zoning game with force balls and spit. This is hard for every character except Smoke to overcome (hooray). Outside elbow dash range reptile has NO options against Smoke. None. All he can do is dash up to you. This is where the crux of the match up is, how you respond to dash.

Reptile has a few options after a whiffed dash up: instant cross up, instant poke, throw a string or dash again. Depending on how well you read an incoming dash, you can actually beat out these options by just throwing a 3d12 or b23 in anticipation of dash (use 3d12 if you're right at the edge of dash range and b23 if you're further outside). You can't do this on reaction. If you see the dash, it's already too late. You can, however, neutral jump on reaction to a DASH if you EXPECT a CROSS UP. by the time you see the cross up, it's too late to neutral jump, however.

When you're inside dash range you must respect dash at all times. Block ALOT, but also be evasive. You don't want reptile to build a shit ton of meter because you just keep blocking his strings. A blocked dash is a full combo punish with 21 xx smoke bomb > (combo of your choice). Smoke's normals are all slow enough that dash will cut right through them so being aggressive is risky. The exception to this is D+1 and D+3, which seems to knock reptile out of dash on the regular. So, poke away

Reptile can be vulnerable to jump ins (kicks especially) and cross ups. His uppercut sucks and he has no real AA options. If the Reptile is good, he will dash away from jump ins/cross ups, but they're still safe for you.

Another thing to think about is when you're at sweep distance you can jump backwards in anticipation of a dash. Dash will only hit grounded opponents so the instant you leave the ground you're safe, and you will be coming down in the perfect position to throw a jump in punch and continue into 3d12 pressure. Jumping in general is a good strategy against Reptile, just don't get carried away.

Reptile doesn't have very good wake ups, either. Keep the pressure on with meaty 3d12 and b23.

The secret about Reptile is that, besides elbow dash, he's slow. Like, really fucking slow. His regular dash is a joke and none of his normals are very fast. Elbow dash is what makes Reptile good. Beat the dash and you beat Reptile.



Kabal: 5:5

Best tournament player I have experience against: AC1984

Kabal gets his zoning game busted the worst of all the top tier characters; shake actually increases the size of Smoke's hit boxes so Kabal can't even shoot fireballs above your head to keep you from jumping. (unless they're at the top of the screen, in which case you can Tpunch punish the jump.) And, the only time you will get hit with ground saw is out of a dash cancel.

Because he can't zone you Kabal will be doing more dash cancels than you can count. Kabal is a guessing game, straight up, and his mixups are intense.

When he dashes you have to respect the dash by blocking which allows him to cancel into ground saw/overhead swords/sweep/throw/cross up/another string. That's a lot of shit. A good Kabal's game is constantly changing and it can be tough to keep up. Every string has the potential to be a 50/50 because they can all be cancelled into overhead swords or ground saw at any time. Your best bet is to block low and then fuzzy guard the overhead swords (they're not that hard to see coming).

This match is more about knowing what Kabal's options are and then pinning down your opponent's tendencies.

I made up a cute little flow chart for Kabal's NDC mix ups:



Secret Tip: Don't fear the Nomad Dash. At least not right away.

the reason that Kabal's f3,2 > Nomad Dash is a good mix up is because of the THREAT of a dash. In reality, Kabal players rarely let the dash follow through after a blocked string; it's super risky and a full combo punish. Use this to your advantage. If you block f+3,2 you can safely assume that he will cancel the dash. So, as soon as the string is over let go of block and begin retaliating (sweep, d4 - b23, whatever). Don't be afraid of the dash winding up after you block a string. At least not until he catches on and lets the dash happen.

From half screen and farther Kabal players will try and check you with dash only to cancel it at the last second and follow up with a mix up. Again, they will rarely let the dash happen (full combo punish on block). So be one step ahead of them and instead of blocking, anticipate their assumption you will remain blocking and attack them as the dash gets close (with sweep, or 3d12. b2 will step forward into the dash and often get hit because you're closer than they were expecting you to be and don't cancel the dash in time). That way, your attack will hit them as they attempt a mix up, or at the very least, force them to block.

Also, respect EX nomad dash on wake up and as jump in/cross up defense. Play Smoke's oki game against Kabal the same way you do against other characters that can wake up with a launcher that you can block punish for a full combo.

Block > punish > rinse > repeat.


Nightwolf: 4:6

Best tournament player I have experience against: Jim Coastin. **He doesn't have much of a presence on TYM but, in my opinion, he's just as good as Lord of the Fly, the best known Nightwolf player who got top 16 (I think) at EVO.

Nightwolf is a bitch of a match for several reasons.

First, Nightwolf is stacked. Brutal specials, high damage juggles, 7 frame uppercut, nasty f+3 mix up, and a 7 (8?) frame combo starting jab with long reach make him tough for anyone.

Second, Smoke falls victim to the shoulder charge/lightning shenanigans just like everyone else.

Third, Nightwolf's most common/useful moves all beat EX shake.

And fourth (most importantly), Nightwolf escapes Smoke's wake up vortex.

Never ever jump at nightwolf. He has tons of AA: hatchet, uppercut, dash, and EX choke. you can CROSS HIM UP, but never jump at him. If you're right in Nightwolf's face it's not a bad idea to cross up punch, but be wary of EX choke. it has armor which will eat the punch and then connect. He won't be able to uppercut or hatchet on reaction, though.

The best punish for a shoulder charge is d4. The d4 > b2 trap is great against Nightwolf because most Nightwolf players tend to be very aggressive and don't often block after d4 which guarantees a b23 (it will even pull them out of shoulder charge every time). At worst they block b23 and you can drift away/past them. Uppercut should be a secondary punish; only used if they consistently block b23.

The shoulder charge is what makes Nightwolf immune to Smoke's vortex. Here's why.

Shoulder is a wake up and is safe on block. This is bad. That means if the Nightwolf player is savvy, he will throw it on wake up every time, regardless of what he thinks you will do. This is in his favor, because it hits you if you try for meaty pressure, and even if you make a correct read on the shoulder, the worst you can do is d4 > b2 (and he will block the b2, because he's savvy). This is a get-out-of-jail free card. If they begin doing this, jump backwards as they wake up. It's risky, but if timed right the shoulder will go under you and you can hit them with a jump punch on the way down, granting a full combo.

The upside: Shoulder makes NW susceptible to poke pressure, because all crouching attacks are safe from it. Just watch out for f+3.

Nightwolf also has a ton of moves that beat EX Shake. shoulder beats it, hatchet beats it, and (worst of all) fucking f+3 beats it. Stupid, I know, but true. So the moral of the story is don't EX shake Nightwolf unless it's as cross up defense.

A good strategy is to go for sweeps, and then cross up while he's on the ground. If he constantly should charges on wakeup, use the jump backwards strategy.


Mileena: 5:5

Best tournament player I have experience against: It was at ECT but I forget his handle…

Mileena is an interesting match up because her move set is a bit all over the place. It's hard to tell exactly what normals are coming until they're already on screen. The normals you want to be careful of are her overhead kick (easy to fuzzy guard if need be), her 2 hit low poking string, and her d+4. Not too much to worry about.

Mileena relies very heavily on her specials, specifically ball roll and teleport kick.

A teleport kick standing hit grants enough stagger state that mileena can safe jump into a free mix up and you have to block. Don't let that happen. Many Mileenas like to throw random teleport kicks because on block, she will often throw sais which, if positioned correctly, will connect. This makes the kick safe if you block the sais and can hit if you try to punish too early. Therefore, the best way to punish a blocked dive kick is with d1 > d1 xx smoke bomb so you can duck the sais but still get a good punish.

Whiffed ball roll can get Mileena in but is not very common. It actually has a deceptively long range and unless you're near full screen it will probably connect. If they do whiff a ball roll you can react to it the same way you do to reptile's dash, except you have a lot more time to do it in. So get ready to block ball roll. You can punish this with d1 > d1 xx smoke bomb as well.

REMEMBER: Mileena's "cannonball" after a blocked special is different from every character in the game; she can block the instant she touches the ground. This means you have to hit her in the air which messes up Smoke's big bnb's, so it's best to just use d1 > d1 xx smoke bomb.

Ball roll and teleport kick can both bust up wake up pressure too, so it's best to block > punish mileena on wake up until you teach her to not use wake up specials, then bust her ass with meaty 3d12s.

The bottom line is you want to do a little bit of turtling and be defensive against mileena while maintaining some of the standard hit and fade Smoke strategy.
 

arydious

Noob
Thanks everyone for your input. Im going to go over this stuff, as you can see just different responses from people already contradict others. I will say some of the responses seemed to be a comparison on paper, and did not include smokes mind games that can be used against people.

Ill be researching, and testing the things mentioned here to make an adjustment to the original post. Ill post again when its updated.
 

Wildabeast

The Bat in the Hat
Couple notes on the Sub Zero match:

Sub Zero is not a zonner, he is lock down. A good Sub Zero is not gonna sit back behind a clone and chuck ice all day, he'll use it to cut off the screen and pressure. The good news is that as long as you're not jumping too much clone isn't much of a threat to smoke since hes trying to force Sub to come to him not the other way around, you can also punish clone with a smoke bomb.

Therefore, Sub Zero will try and bait you into a clone so just try not to be too aggressive. Just play the hit and run game to frustrate him into making a mistake and then capitalize. Also, don't get too trigger happy with Smoke bombs, if the sub player sees it coming he can punish it with a slide or an X-Ray.

*edit: Yes crossing up is clone proof, just watch out for 2,2 because that will catch you.
 

SZSR

Noob
Anybody have info. on the Kenshi matchup? I got eliminated this weekend by a really good Kenshi because I had no idea how to approach him, crossups kind of worked, but I got really predictable with them and he kept punishing my jump-ins, help please... :(
 

arydious

Noob
Anybody have info. on the Kenshi matchup? I got eliminated this weekend by a really good Kenshi because I had no idea how to approach him, crossups kind of worked, but I got really predictable with them and he kept punishing my jump-ins, help please... :(
Ill also get to work on the DLC characters, there is no reason they are not up here already. Bad on me
 
Anybody have info. on the Kenshi matchup? I got eliminated this weekend by a really good Kenshi because I had no idea how to approach him, crossups kind of worked, but I got really predictable with them and he kept punishing my jump-ins, help please... :(
I really don't have a lot to offer in this match up but I faced a Kenshi last night and got a close victory. I used a lot of telepunchs whenever I saw him do anything from full screen since you can't shake anything he does. Once I got inside I did a lot of 3D12 and cross ups. I did not play any footies with him either since you will just eat a charge and have to work your way in. This is kind of a backwards matchup since most charaters chase Smoke around the screen and Kenshi just says whatever I like to fight from full screen. He is the only character that can do that to Smoke.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
reptile cannot punish jump ins
d2/d4/2/1/3 say hi.

Smith has the right idea about Reptile. Most characters have a better ground game than Reptile simply because their standard movement is faster.
 
Anybody have info. on the Kenshi matchup? I got eliminated this weekend by a really good Kenshi because I had no idea how to approach him, crossups kind of worked, but I got really predictable with them and he kept punishing my jump-ins, help please... :(
I got to play Lord of the Fly's Kenshi last night, and learned some things that work well against Kenshi. Kenshi likes to fight from a distance (obvious I know) and used his tele moves to keep you there. The idea with Smoke is to take him out of that game and it is actually pretty easy to do. Throw smoke bombs and trade with Kenshi every chance you get. The sb takes Kenshi out of most of his full screen moves and gives you a combo. If you trade with a charge or telepunches you still deal more damage, and often sb takes priority of them so you just get your combos. Also watch how the Kenshi AA's you. If they like to use the charge to AA which a lot of them do since the pushback puts you at fullscreen do a jumpkick that hits them on the top of their head and airthrow. I was able to do this consistently last night, unless he was just inputting the charge too late. Deep jk/jip would get hit but the high level one would not.
 
I got to play Lord of the Fly's Kenshi last night, and learned some things that work well against Kenshi. Kenshi likes to fight from a distance (obvious I know) and used his tele moves to keep you there. The idea with Smoke is to take him out of that game and it is actually pretty easy to do. Throw smoke bombs and trade with Kenshi every chance you get. The sb takes Kenshi out of most of his full screen moves and gives you a combo. If you trade with a charge or telepunches you still deal more damage, and often sb takes priority of them so you just get your combos. Also watch how the Kenshi AA's you. If they like to use the charge to AA which a lot of them do since the pushback puts you at fullscreen do a jumpkick that hits them on the top of their head and airthrow. I was able to do this consistently last night, unless he was just inputting the charge too late. Deep jk/jip would get hit but the high level one would not.
you can also throw out two smoke bombs faster than kenshi can do one tele-move, so smoke completely poops on kenshi fullscreen.
 

arydious

Noob
Sorry I have not got to update this yet. Keep putting information down here int he comments I will Update the characters appropriately soon. Also for people li KT smith who are given very detailed answers im going to add spoilers in the original post to include those.
 

arydious

Noob
Updated the original post, added spoilers to allow people to skip on reading the ones they do not need. I briefly updated a few characters effected by the patch but I still have a lot to do.I also fixed the links that were broken.

My plan is to add a tools section for each person, and what the opponents strategy is, I.E Zoner, Rushdown ETC.

I will also include the strategies everyone else finds useful as well.
 
again, thans for this amazing post.

i wanna add something about quan chi: his teleport is not safe. no matter if blocked or whiffed, it can be punished with any full ground combo on reaction.
you can bait it from full screen, its always good to dashblock back and forth to maximize the chances it will hit your block which is easier to punish.

against johnny cage, ex smoxe and smokebomb every time he tries to get in. if he gets more agressive, bait him into b23 smoke bomb. always respect the shadow kick and punish it with b23 smoke bomb.
 

arydious

Noob
Thanks Kabel, Im going through everything people are posted to make it nice and readable on the eyes. This si good stuff about quan chi and johnny, with johnny you need to watch out for his 2 1 f2 because the f2 has some range on it
 
Thanks Kabel, Im going through everything people are posted to make it nice and readable on the eyes. This si good stuff about quan chi and johnny, with johnny you need to watch out for his 2 1 f2 because the f2 has some range on it
yeah he can cover like 2/3 of the screen with one dash into string and will be in his pressure then, thats why i (ex) smoke as soon as possible
 
vs skarlett: even. theres nothing special in in this matchup that you can do against her or she can do against you. just play your standard smoke, just be a bit careful with the bombs (and jumps) cause she can punish it with the teleport and can move towards you very quick. you can punish a blocked teleport with 2 (1 smoke bomb). i think it works for the launcher/overhead specials too, even though my buddy who plays her says its safe, but he eats the punish quite often. her low slide is not punishable but can be en-shaked. skarlett doesnt have good mixups but many safe moves, so her strategy might be to combo, bait your counter and then crossup punch you, so always be ready to njp or whatever you like to do against that.
 

McNasty

Moist.
You guys really think cyrax is at advantage against smoke? I just don't see it. I feel like almost anything he does TP is an answer... the chest opens he tries to pressure i smoke away and wiff punish him hard. Bombs are irrelevant with smoke away/toward and wont dare throw a net unless its hit confirmed. To me it seems the characters cyrax gives the most trouble to are the ones that dont deal with his obstacle course well and smoke has the best options to deal with it. Only way I see it is his pressure game is much better but he shouldnt be able to get near you.

IMO 5-5 If not in smokes favor.