Slip and Hippo Show Ep 7 - The One About Evo 2018

Discussion in 'Podcasts, Shows & Archives' started by KingHippo, Jul 31, 2018.

By KingHippo on Jul 31, 2018 at 11:20 PM
  1. KingHippo

    KingHippo Alternative-Fact Checker

    A special version of the @Slips and Hippo show! For our 7th episode we look at Evo 2018 as a whole: what it's like to experience Evo, which ones we have been to, the pools, who's going to make top 8, etc. I have a large rant that I go on regarding how the brackets are constructed, and we go deep into game design with our viewer question of the week. Make this your in-flight entertainment as you travel to Evo!

    I do apologize for the sound at some points, it's monsoon season in AZ so the connection got a little wonky and Slips may cut out for a second.

    00:00:00 - 00:11:48 (Intro, intro to Evo)
    00:11:49 - 00:49:13 (Evo pools predictions/Top 8)
    00:49:14 - 01:06:04 (Hippo rant about Evo pools creation)
    01:06:05 - 01:22:51 (What happens after Evo with Injustice 2?)
    01:22:52 - 01:53:29 (Q/A, Wrap-up)

    On the go? Take this download link with you!

    As always, we're on Twitter @KingHippo42 and @Slipkicks, so let us know if you have any feedback or give us a follow for updates on the show. Thanks for listening everyone, and I'll see some of you at Evo!
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 1, 2018
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Discussion in 'Podcasts, Shows & Archives' started by KingHippo, Jul 31, 2018.

    1. HGTV Soapboxfan
      HGTV Soapboxfan
      I gotta side with Hippo on the brackets thing. There is just too much on the line to allow brackets to be influenced by anyone with a clear reason to desire a certain outcome from the tournament. Is it really worth not hiring that one guy (assuming he is available and willing) to risk the amounts of money potentially on the line?
      Cashual and KingHippo like this.
    2. KingHippo
      I should note that I don't think that it will really hurt much other than pools, but you can't give players that kind of power because they'll abuse it. It's very bush league; if this were the NCAA, would you let the Dean of one of the schools seed the brackets? Or one of the ball players? I don't care if the intentions are good, that's a conflict of interest, and it has no place in 2018.
      HGTV Soapboxfan likes this.
    3. HGTV Soapboxfan
      HGTV Soapboxfan
      Also, I saw mention of this somewhere, don't remember where, but should the results of the online tournament that happened be included in seeding? Technically that is very biased regionally is it not?
    4. KingHippo
      I would factor in the overall IPS list, which would include the NA West tournament, yes. Idk if I would argue it's biased, it just happened to be before the other ones. If there was only an NA West tournament and no other, than yeah it might be biased, but I don't think you can claim bias when it's just a part of the tourney schedule.
    5. HGTV Soapboxfan
      HGTV Soapboxfan
      I probably would say the same. But I can see how a player who can only travel to Evo and is on the east coast could be frustrated that a west coast player in the same situation has an extra opportunity to be seeded. I guess the question is if there is something different about the tournament being online, because if you apply it to offline then it is "unfair" for any tournament to be before any other tournament which obviously doesn't make sense lol.

      Side note might as well add this here, obviously a big fan of the show. The community needs people talking about the game. When I decided to come back for injustice 2 one of my main frustrations was that it is so hard to find people talking about the game. You see black manta rated highly by people but there is no footage and no one is talking about what the character does. Etc etc. Even though you guys don't generally sit there and talk about the specifics of characters and stuff, when you mention characters and talk about the game it is nice to hear that there are opinions about the game that exist.
      Roy Arkon likes this.
    6. KingHippo
      Opportunities and privilege exist in all walks of life, and I think it's just something you learn to accept. I know when I was heavily competing I thought it was annoying that most of the best tournaments happened on the East Coast or Midwest and that in the SW, we really only had Evo and SCR because NCR and, for years, Texas Showdown were dead in the water. Obviously those who can travel will have a natural advantage, and getting to play the best online is often a matter of social interaction and clique infiltration. It is what it is.

      We agreed, which is why we have the show! One of the things we'll be looking to do post-Evo is to do some more specific stuff like figure out why some chars are highly rated despite almost nothing being shown, and vice-versa. We always appreciate your viewership!
      Roy Arkon and HGTV Soapboxfan like this.
    7. Roy Arkon
      Roy Arkon
      I do wanna ask @Slips regarding his thoughts on combo execution. You guys forgot to mention DBFZ, which has auto combos of mashing a single button, and the pros of that game do use them a lot. So you wanna get the combos in NRS games to be in that level of easy? On one hand, I can see how it can help make the game easier for beginners and make the learning curve easier in theory, but on the other hand I'm not quite sure that it will good, as NRS games already have combos that are easier then almost any other fighting game out there.

      As for things that should be back in MK11, I'm also a huge fan of the Variation system, that is one of the reasons why I like MKX so much, because it helps you play your favorite character with your preferred gameplan and playstyle direction, unlike IJ2. I do think that having 2 Variations with that are very different from one another with normals and/or specials with only a few universal moves will be great, and maybe a few chars that have more similar Variations in moves will be the right thing to do. But I do like the idea from @KingHippo that each character will have Variation specific mechanics, that will be cool. I would love if both the Variations and the Interactables will be back, if they do then I will be super happy.

      Also you guys once again nailed it regarding the community, this period will test the community and it's long row of complaints. I just hope that the people in the community will be able to look themselves in the mirror. Also King Hippo is damn right regarding the EVO brackets.
    8. Wigy
      Why is it for someone to get bored of a game after 2 years they have to be some moron sheep. Keep hearing it and that shits dumb, especially with this game. Bout as much depth as Kim k on half the top tiers.
    9. KingHippo
      I don't think anyone in the podcast said that, in fact I believe it was stated multiple times that if you do in fact like it (IE you're literally putting in hours a day) that, aside from fatigue, it would only seem natural to keep playing.
      Roy Arkon likes this.
    10. Wigy
      Paraphrasing - people will get bored that's what their trained to do.. and then start complaining about the game even though it's fine-

      The after Evo part
    11. KingHippo
      I say trained because I'm not sure how much people understand they're in the pattern. The majority of the complaints are the same that are levied at every NRS title since MK9, but they never pan out "No depth, top chars are too good, etc." have been said since time immemorial, yet after the community moved on they usually lament the loss of the same title for the same reasons they're saying now!

      I'm not as militant as Slips is, but it's hard not to call out the pattern of events as they happen. It's still not as bad as MKX tho
      Wigy likes this.
    12. Wigy
      I get what you're saying. But in the end that's just your opinions. It's a reductive generalisation to say you can't like the game for your own reasons.

      There's a theme of people just defending the game and shitting on anyone who doesn't like it. They have to be sheep or idiots.

      Enjoyed most of the podcast and you guys speak truth. Just that particular part. Half of tym saying the same shit.
    13. KingHippo
      How is it reductive to say people like or dislike a game for personal reasons? There is no such a things as a perfect fighter, and even the most revered have their fair share of detractors.

      I don't think at any point we have derided anyone who chose to stop playing because of personal dislike; in fact I think we gave foxy props for doing so last week. I think the ppl we tend to rib are the ones who will bemoan the cycle of the game, say they can't stand it, and continue to play.

      I appreciate the feedback, it's the only way we know how we can do better
    14. Protagonist_1
      Aye! Going to listen to this on my way to EVO haha!
      JBeezYBabY likes this.
    15. JBeezYBabY
      YOU ARE GOING TOO!?!? We should meet up! :) I'll be walking around Black n Gold, the shiniest negro there lol :D
      Icefyre and Protagonist_1 like this.
    16. Protagonist_1
      Hell yeah I'm going haha! This is pretty much my vacation, put in a lot of hours from work to make this happen.
      JBeezYBabY and Roy Arkon like this.
    17. Matix218
      Great show guys, thanks for doing my question in the q&a. As for my personal answer, I want them to go back to the movement style of mk9 (dash cancelling, no running) but retain the character variations. I also agree with hippo that I like how down pokes don't combo in MK, I think that should stay an IGAU only thing. My ideal MK would be mk9 with balance. I love strong anti airs that make jumping risky and force you to use movement on the ground more which MK9 had and I want to see that again. I unfortunately doubt NRS will go back to dash csncelling because I remember hearing the dev team say that they didnt like the way the game looked with constant dash blocking. I dont have a source for this but I know I heard it when MKX was being developed (which is part of the reason they did not have cancellable dashes in mkx, because it makes the gameplay look visually more fluid). I just dont want that running back. It was just too fast and made the game too insane pace wise.

      Edit: Also I agree with Slips that there needs to be less armor overall. To me armor is generally a bandaid to try to fix/patch poorly designed characters and I hope to see less armored moves. I also like to see strong wake up attacks but have the ability to learn difficult timing setups to stuff them (adding skill and depth to wake up vs oki). I think the wakeup attacks were too easy to stuff in MKX overall. The attacker had too easy of a time keeping the defender on the ground IMO. Also I could totally do without interactibles but that is just my preference.
      Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
      DownfouralitY likes this.
    18. wsj515
      Digit's Shazam was disgusting.
      Ram likes this.
    19. Cashual
      I’m liking the podcast a lot, even if I don’t agree with all the points.

      Regarding what I want/don’t want from MK11 in terms of MKX mechanics:

      1) I don’t like the inherent 50/50 throw mixup with front and back throw and having to tech them differently. Throw tech IMO should be the throw button. Just an unnecessary guess, and teching grabs is already challenging and pretty high level, players should be rewarded for being on point.

      2) I know chip damage is sort of a trademark of MK and NRS games but I think it’s time to tone it down. Whether that means just reducing chip across the board or limiting chip to specials, I could be convinced of either. However, it’s time to eliminate chip kills. It kills hype. Players with a magic pixel or 5% health or whatever should have to be opened up to die. Or maybe stipulate that for a player to kill with chip, they’d have to do an EX move so that way a resource is consumed and forces players to decide whether to hold the bar or burn it and deepens the meta.

      3) I loved the variation system, I hope it returns. Maybe reduce it to 2 variations so balance is more attainable. I want them to look more visually distinct as well.

      4) I actually liked the run mechanic in MKX and it’s a cool throw back to MK3. Maybe the rate of stamina consumption should be increased so that a player can only run half screen or something before it depletes.

      Then, it’s not a free get in and if the opposing player reads it or reacts they can cash out damage because the running player won’t have stamina to break. It changes the risk reward. And, I love run cancel combos, it was a nice bit of depth and execution challenge that I enjoyed practicing. Just makes certain conversions hype.

      5) I grew to like interactables but I’d like some changes, especially in the corner. My two ideas are either make corner interactables consumable (either single use if they’re escape interactable or possibly 2-3 uses and with each use the escape object visually erodes/“breaks”) or force players to use a bar to use corner escape interactables (sorry Michelangelo!!!).

      Cornering players should be rewarded and players should prioritize screen positioning. I didn’t like seeing players just fearlessly jump into the corner because they know they will get out so easily.

      6) no jump ins should be basically guaranteed like Mileenas and a few others. I think by the end of MKX AA’s were decent except for a few exceptions. Just don’t go overboard with jump in attacks or at least factor them in more heavily to the characters overall toolset.

      7) More stages! A stage per character? At least release one stage with each DLC character or pack at minimum.

      8) I like the aged versions of MK vets, I thought it was a cool touch, bring it back. I would like each character to have their younger selves as a skin though. Hell maybe the plot could involve time travel explaining why there’s old and young versions.

      I’m going to add more thoughts on this.
      Matix218 likes this.

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