Sindel Lore thread

[HeavyNorse]

Sindel is out in less than 24 hours, so I decided to make a thread dedicated to her lore to separate it from the gameplay threads.

And I'll start by posting this video from The4thSnake:

My personal opinion:
I am disappointed that NRS decided to make this retcon to her story in MK11. It will not stop my enjoyment of playing her in the game though, I am still getting her and will play her! All her other aspects in MK11 - her gameplay, her design, the voice acting - it all looks awesome! But I see no reason for NRS to make this odd change to her character.

However, it goes deeper than just Sindel. Thing is, my favourite storyline from the original timeline is everything that revolves around the Edenians, how Kitana fought to regain Edenia's freedom, reunited with her mother, fought Shao Kahn's forces alongside Jade, Tanya's betrayal as she brought Shinnok into the realm... All this was completely cut away and thrown aside in the new timeline. From how Kitana learns about her true origins and who Mileena really is, to Tanya making a slight comment about wanting Edenia's freedom from Outworld, and now Sindel's past having been retconned as a final nail in the coffin.

All this said though... not only does MK11's story mode ending heavily hint at another reboot of some sort, but because Sindel is nowhere in the main story mode of the game and is merely DLC, it is easy to disregard this retcon entirely as non-canon... or at least as inconsequential all things considered. As things are now, Sindel's retcon has no influence on anything canon what-so-ever. What I don't wish to happen is that they continue this retcon into MK12's main story mode. That is not who Sindel is to me. She could just as well have been another character then. But that's just my feelings and thoughts on the matter.

Feel free to discuss!

 

[xenogorgeous]

I'm favour to her retcon in MK11 .... she seems more funny as a greedy cynical bitch , hehe !

 

[Iustinus]

The next game is going to be another reboot, so does it really matter at the end of the day?

Everything's going to be wiped out yet again.

 

[Samsara]

The next game is going to be another reboot, so does it really matter at the end of the day?

Everything's going to be wiped out yet again.

What's make this sting even more was the fact that Boon straight up said that this was going to be a full faith continuation of MKX and then you finish story and realize they were too chicken shit to take the story anywhere.

Honestly I'm not excited for NRS writing anymore I dont think they give a shit about MK lore. Expect another blockbuster 80s action movie story featuring special forces leads from now on with huge overblown end of the world plot no. 100998

 

[MKF30]

I don't like some changes they made with some characters like Jax, Sindel and how they killed off Ermac annoyed me a bit. Yes I'm a bit biased for Ermac but you can't tell me on a poll that more people would want someone like Jacqui over Ermac, Reptile or Rain and if they did they are posers, not MK fans. All i'm going to say.

The story may not be perfect but when compared to other FG's MK blows the comp away, hands down. I mean even Capcom tipped their cap to NRS saying they do the best with story telling easily. I do wish it didn't end the way it did with leading into yet another reboot I'll admit but in a way it's also a good thing because sooner or later they'd run out of ideas anyway like with anything else in fiction. Comics reboot, shows reboot, movie franchises reboot everyone reboots at some point. It's just how things work now. But I do hope that MK does either a multiverse in the future of some kind(we've done time travel) or perhaps early MK tournaments showing newer, older characters some new of course and old like the Great Kung Lao, Raiden of course being ageless, Shao Kahn, perhaps maybe Onaga way back when he originally ruled Outworld etc, etc

Anyway, on Sindel exclusively. I hate her retcon she went from honorable, oppressed hero to a power hungry, greedy, shallow bitch. It just felt forced. On the other hand, what I do like is her outfits(finally something not scared to show off a women's body) and her gameplay looks like a lot of fun. They got that right at least.

 

[StormGoddess]

Sindel All Endings (MK3-11)

 

[HeavyNorse]

Sindel All Endings (MK3-11)

My favourite Sindel moment:

 

[ImperatrixSindel]

I'm of two minds about it. On the one hand, I hate that it erases Deception Sindel completely, and that it cancels out the most important aspect of Sindel's character before the retcon -- that she sacrificed her life to protect Earthrealm from Shao Kahn. I also liked the discontinuity between her seemingly evil appearance and her actually benevolent spirit, which I get is confusing from a design perspective but in my opinion is part of what made her interesting.

On the other hand, I agree with @16 Bit's point in the Kombat Kast that it gives the character more agency. Making Sindel into a Cersei Lannister type who is seeking her own advancement over a husband she saw as weak is a much more empowered position than having her be a rape victim who then gets ripped out of her grave and mind controlled to do her rapist's bidding. But while MK3 Sindel didn't have agency, Deception Sindel was a very empowered character and I think they could have gone that route instead.

As a Sindel fan who most of all would like to see her in more games, my biggest concern is that tying her explicitly to Shao Kahn as a villain and part of his reign means that she doesn't have an obvious role in the story moving forward. The righteous Queen of Edenia had a role to play after Shao Kahn was gone, and it would have been nice to finally see her and Kitana reunited and working for the good of the realms. With this change, I feel like Sindel and Shao Kahn might just be retired after this game, you know what I mean? If Sindel has more schemes once Shao Kahn has fallen, then that would be fine! Sindel vs. Kitana in Outworld could be fun. Obviously the story is going to reboot again, so who knows where things are going ultimately for MK12.

I also think making her a traitor to Edenia sort of eats up Tanya's role, and Tanya is my second favorite character, so that's a bit of a bummer.

 

[xenogorgeous]

I'm of two minds about it. On the one hand, I hate that it erases Deception Sindel completely, and that it cancels out the most important aspect of Sindel's character before the retcon -- that she sacrificed her life to protect Earthrealm from Shao Kahn. I also liked the discontinuity between her seemingly evil appearance and her actually benevolent spirit, which I get is confusing from a design perspective but in my opinion is part of what made her interesting.

On the other hand, I agree with @16 Bit's point in the Kombat Kast that it gives the character more agency. Making Sindel into a Cersei Lannister type who is seeking her own advancement over a husband she saw as weak is a much more empowered position than having her be a rape victim who then gets ripped out of her grave and mind controlled to do her rapist's bidding. But while MK3 Sindel didn't have agency, Deception Sindel was a very empowered character and I think they could have gone that route instead.

As a Sindel fan who most of all would like to see her in more games, my biggest concern is that tying her explicitly to Shao Kahn as a villain and part of his reign means that she doesn't have an obvious role in the story moving forward. The righteous Queen of Edenia had a role to play after Shao Kahn was gone, and it would have been nice to finally see her and Kitana reunited and working for the good of the realms. With this change, I feel like Sindel and Shao Kahn might just be retired after this game, you know what I mean? If Sindel has more schemes once Shao Kahn has fallen, then that would be fine! Sindel vs. Kitana in Outworld could be fun. Obviously the story is going to reboot again, so who knows where things are going ultimately for MK12.

I also think making her a traitor to Edenia sort of eats up Tanya's role, and Tanya is my second favorite character, so that's a bit of a bummer.

very good call !

I think now, Sindel has his own dominance agenda, kinda, she seems to still care about return back old Edenia to its previous former own glory, but having her as the supreme empress with her own dictatorship .... without none external or internal interference

more or less as Dr. Doom relationship with Laveria, hehe

 

[ImperatrixSindel]

After watching her tower ending in this game I'm much more at peace with it -- it's very clever how they play her previous story being a lie she told to keep Kitana loyal to her.

 

[DeftMonk]

im Kinda cool with the retcon on one hand but on the other hand it makes me hella mad about shao Kahn. In old mk land shao Kahn was the f’n Bee’s knees. And nobody messed with him. In mk11 he just runs away repeatedly and his voice sounds like a drunk guy on king of the hill.

 

[EarlyReflections]

They retconned her to be in line with the "evil" appearance and now she looks much softer and sweet. Nrs logic

 

[ImperatrixSindel]

im Kinda cool with the retcon on one hand but on the other hand it makes me hella mad about shao Kahn. In old mk land shao Kahn was the f’n Bee’s knees. And nobody messed with him. In mk11 he just runs away repeatedly and his voice sounds like a drunk guy on king of the hill.

I get you but I mean on the other hand it's a lot more fun to be a Shao Kahn fan if he isn't a rapist lol

 

[MKF30]

im Kinda cool with the retcon on one hand but on the other hand it makes me hella mad about shao Kahn. In old mk land shao Kahn was the f’n Bee’s knees. And nobody messed with him. In mk11 he just runs away repeatedly and his voice sounds like a drunk guy on king of the hill.

Lmao I kind of thought his mk 11 voice sounded like a WWE wrestler that spend more time talking shit then actually fighting lol. I dont know why but I can picture him saying "can you smell what the kahn is cooking"? Lol

 

[ScreamQueen]

I noticed they're already leaving in potential "get outs" for Sindel's retcon in case it doesn't take.
One of her intros with Shao Kahn has him doubting who she is, asking her to say something "only Sindel would know"
Sindel namechecks the Quan Chi murder, and Shao Kahn calls her out as an imposter.

Also in a Sindel mirror match, a definition is made by one Sindel claiming she's "from another timeline" (which is then followed up by the amazing burn "one where I have no style".)

Anyway, not shit-stirring, just adding to the topic. Honestly, if they wanted to, NRS could scrap this retcon on a dime by the next game. They can scrap ANYTHING on a dime between games... Well, they can and do.

 

[Juxtapose]

DLC characters are not story-canonical representations of the characters though, and this representation of Sindel contradicts what we know of the character from this timeline.

In the current timeline, the character still suicides herself to create the barrier to protect EarthRealm, and Quan Chi resurrects her and changes her to be loyal to Shao Kahn. So Sindel killing Jerrod and being power hungry obviously didn't canonically happen. DLC Sindel, in her ending, even expresses shock and contempt at having been dead for millennia in the current timeline.

It's not the same, canonical character.

 

[Roy Arkon]

This whole thing about Sindel isn't a retcon, but rather a twist. Since this is still the new timeline, the ripple affect can not only cause events to change, but also character's personalities and backgrounds can change as well, as timelines can affect both events and living beings. Therefore Sindel's personality doesn't have to be the same as the old timeline's Sindel was. As we can see in Sindel's MK11 ending, they didn't ignore the story that was told in MK9 or any of the details it were told in that story but Sindel herself said that this is the story that she wanted everyone to believe. That's why NRS in Kombat Kast said that this is NEW INFORMATION, not changes. Also since it turns out that Quan Chi was the one who killed Sindel, it clearly shows that the brainwash that Quan Chi put on Sindel wasn't for making her to be loyal to Shao Kahn, but to forget that Quan Chi was the one who killed her, and that was a part of Shinnok's plan that culminated in MK9, as Shinnok and Quan Chi wanted Shao Kahn to be dead so they can conquer both Outworld and Earthrealm, so Quan Chi killed Sindel, tricked Shao Kahn to believe that she sacrificed herself for Earthrealm, and then resurrected her so that Shao Kahn would invade Earthrealm and then get killed by the Elder Gods, who are the only ones to truly have a ward on Earthrealm. Also in the MK11 Krypt, the description of King Jerrod's crown says that Shao Kahn beheaded Jerrod, which goes well with Sindel's ending as Shao Kahn is seen next to Sindel while she is stabbing Jerrod. So Shao Kahn could've behead Jerrod after Sindel stabbed him. And as for D'Vorah, yes she said that she killed Jerrod in an intro with Kitana, but considering that the Krypt description, as well all of Sindel's intros and ending, tell otherwise, it's very clear that this particular intro with Kitana and D'Vorah wasn't canon.

So again, this is not a retcon, but a twist that brings new information about Sindel, and once you actually piece everything together, it makes perfect sense.

After watching her tower ending in this game I'm much more at peace with it -- it's very clever how they play her previous story being a lie she told to keep Kitana loyal to her.

Exactly, that's the story that Sindel wanted everyone to believe, which once again goes with what NRS said in the Kombat Kast that this is new information.

What's make this sting even more was the fact that Boon straight up said that this was going to be a full faith continuation of MKX and then you finish story and realize they were too chicken shit to take the story anywhere.

Honestly I'm not excited for NRS writing anymore I dont think they give a shit about MK lore. Expect another blockbuster 80s action movie story featuring special forces leads from now on with huge overblown end of the world plot no. 100998

As I've said, this is a plot twist, not a retcon, so the full faith is still there. Also the rest of the story doesn't contradict anything that happened in MKX anyway. Yes it seemed that it it was gonna go one direction, but that doesn't mean they never could've gone to another one. The story is still amazing. And saying that NRS aren't caring about MK lore when they are the only studio who actually cares about their story modes to full degree is so fucking absurd beyond any fucking belief.

The next game is going to be another reboot, so does it really matter at the end of the day?

Everything's going to be wiped out yet again.

Very true, that's why it makes the whole "controversy" around it even less legit.

DLC characters are not story-canonical representations of the characters though, and this representation of Sindel contradicts what we know of the character from this timeline.

In the current timeline, the character still suicides herself to create the barrier to protect EarthRealm, and Quan Chi resurrects her and changes her to be loyal to Shao Kahn. So Sindel killing Jerrod and being power hungry obviously didn't canonically happen. DLC Sindel, in her ending, even expresses shock and contempt at having been dead for millennia in the current timeline.

It's not the same, canonical character.

Yes Sindel is a DLC character, but it doesn't take all chances for her story to be canon, and considering all of the information we got, it's very clear that this is canon. There might be a small chance it isn't, but it's extremely unlikely.

 

[Juxtapose]

@Roy Arkon That's not the case though. DLC Sindel was compliant with and working with Shao Kahn. Why then would she sacrifice herself to save Earthrealm, and why would Quan Chi have had to twist her to get her to cooperate with Shao Kahn?

That's a huge contradiction of not just her backstory that we've always known, but of the representation of the character from Mortal Kombat (2011) and other character interactions with her.

I also can't recall what it was since this was several months back, but something was said about Shang Tsung's return in a Kombat Kast that proved not to be true. So just because it's said on stream, doesn't make it true.

Whether it becomes canon in a later game or not, we'll see.

 

[Roy Arkon]

@Roy Arkon That's not the case though. DLC Sindel was compliant with and working with Shao Kahn. Why then would she sacrifice herself to save Earthrealm, and why would Quan Chi have had to twist her to get her to cooperate with Shao Kahn?

That's a huge contradiction of not just her backstory that we've always known, but of the representation of the character from Mortal Kombat (2011) and other character interactions with her.

I also can't recall what it was since this was several months back, but something was said about Shang Tsung's return in a Kombat Kast that proved not to be true. So just because it's said on stream, doesn't make it true.

Whether it becomes canon in a later game or not, we'll see.

As I've said in my main paragraph, since Sindel confirms in her intros that Quan Chi was the one who killed her, that means that she never sacrificed herself and it was a lie by Quan Chi, and the brainwashing that Quan Chi put on Sindel wasn't to make her loyal to Shao Kahn but to make her forget that Quan Chi was the one who killed her, and that was a part of Shinnok's plan that culminated in MK9, as Shinnok and Quan Chi wanted Shao Kahn dead so they can conquer both Outworld and Earthrealm, so Quan Chi killed Sindel, tricked Shao Kahn to believe that she sacrificed herself for Earthrealm, and then resurrected her so that Shao Kahn would invade Earthrealm and then get killed by the Elder Gods, who are the only ones to truly have a ward on Earthrealm. Now when you take all of that into account, it all makes perfect sense.

Also what exactly was the thing about Shang Tsung that proven to be false? I've just checked it now (just that part, not the whole stream) and nothing that Stephanie said seemed to be false. If you can inform me about it I would appreciate that.

 

[Juxtapose]

As I've said in my main paragraph, since Sindel confirms in her intros that Quan Chi was the one who killed her, that means that she never sacrificed herself and it was a lie by Quan Chi, and the brainwashing that Quan Chi put on Sindel wasn't to make her loyal to Shao Kahn but to make her forget that Quan Chi was the one who killed her, and that was a part of Shinnok's plan that culminated in MK9, as Shinnok and Quan Chi wanted Shao Kahn dead so they can conquer both Outworld and Earthrealm, so Quan Chi killed Sindel, tricked Shao Kahn to believe that she sacrificed herself for Earthrealm, and then resurrected her so that Shao Kahn would invade Earthrealm and then get killed by the Elder Gods, who are the only ones to truly have a ward on Earthrealm. Now when you take all of that into account, it all makes perfect sense.

Also what exactly was the thing about Shang Tsung that proven to be false? I've just checked it now (just that part, not the whole stream) and nothing that Stephanie said seemed to be false. If you can inform me about it I would appreciate that.

Multiplayer character intros are also not canon to Story Mode (though they can and have referenced canonical elements). Take those with a grain of salt, just like Ladder endings.

For Shang Tsung, all I remember is it was something said about how the character returned and why he wasn't around in Story Mode. I don't remember exactly what was said though, but I remember it turned out not to be true. Thus the reason I never bothered to remember it.

While DLC Sindel could indeed turn out to be canon for the reasons you state, this isn't confirmed and won't be until she actually appears this way in canonical story content (Story Mode or comics, mostly). Until then, best to treat this incarnation as non-canon.

 

[Roy Arkon]

Multiplayer character intros are also not canon to Story Mode (though they can and have referenced canonical elements). Take those with a grain of salt, just like Ladder endings.

For Shang Tsung, all I remember is it was something said about how the character returned and why he wasn't around in Story Mode. I don't remember exactly what was said though, but I remember it turned out not to be true. Thus the reason I never bothered to remember it.

While DLC Sindel could indeed turn out to be canon for the reasons you state, this isn't confirmed and won't be until she actually appears this way in canonical story content (Story Mode or comics, mostly). Until then, best to treat this incarnation as non-canon.

Regarding Shang Tsung, what Stephanie said on the Kombat Kast was that Shang Tsung was returned by Kronika like everyone else but because Shang Tsung was known for not being trusted, she kept him away. I don't see why and how this can't be true or it turned out to be not true. I read somewhere that Kronika actually wanted him on her side but Shang refused and stayed away from all battles until the end, but I'm not sure how legit this info is. If this is what you meant by "turned out not to be true", then again, I'm not sure how legit this is.

And back to Sindel, yes intros and endings can be non-canon and for the most part they aren't canon, but every case needs to be taken as it's own, and it's looks very clearly that it is the case for Sindel. Again there might still be a small chance, but it's very unlikely.

But ok then, there might still be a small chance, so we will see what happens, fair enough.

 

[Pizza]

They ruined her story, but with these writters I'm not surprised.

 

[Roy Arkon]

They ruined her story, but with these writters I'm not surprised.

Then you don't know anything dude, the story is amazing both for the overall game and for Sindel, both before the new information and after it, canon or not canon, and the writers do better job then any other fighting game company, FACTS.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I noticed they're already leaving in potential "get outs" for Sindel's retcon in case it doesn't take.
One of her intros with Shao Kahn has him doubting who she is, asking her to say something "only Sindel would know"
Sindel namechecks the Quan Chi murder, and Shao Kahn calls her out as an imposter.

Also in a Sindel mirror match, a definition is made by one Sindel claiming she's "from another timeline" (which is then followed up by the amazing burn "one where I have no style".)

Anyway, not shit-stirring, just adding to the topic. Honestly, if they wanted to, NRS could scrap this retcon on a dime by the next game. They can scrap ANYTHING on a dime between games... Well, they can and do.

I very much like the idea that this game will end with some extra story and assimilate the old storyline.
Since Old VS New is the theme of the game, New Sindel VS Original/Deception Sindel for control over that Edenia + that timeline and maybe also the Kamidogu would be super hype. New Hotness Sindel isn't the one from MK3/MK9, same as MK11 Kitana and Nightwolf and all the other alternate versions. So the possibility remains that we will, at some point, hear about or see THAT Sindel.

Then again, this entire story is insane, so who knows.

 

[HeavyNorse]

Since Old VS New is the theme of the game, New Sindel VS Original/Deception Sindel for control over that Edenia + that timeline and maybe also the Kamidogu would be super hype.

That's what I had hoped for her appearance in MK11.
The Revenant Sindel who believes she willingly joined Shao Kahn and wants to rule all at his side, and having Revenant Kitana as her daughter and ally.
And then Past Sindel from when she was still alive, still the Edenia Queen, who sees how everything went wrong and tries to make up for it by allying herself with the Past Kitana, Jade and the others against Kronika and the Revenants, to restore order and free Edenia once more.

Maybe in the next reboot. :/