Show Stopper Hitbox [Glitch](?) [Hitbox issues]

[KutlessMyth]

I personally think that the ShowStopper variation of Johnny Cage could be his best variation, because of the grounded combo damage.
However there's one string that nut-punch links off of that his camera move won't link off of, that is B34. That's one of his best combo starting strings, as it's nearly his best tool to whiff punish D1's, D2's, D3's, and D4's that people like to throw at his plus frames. I think if NRS fixed the hitbox or (if it's intentional) buffed it so it linked, ShowStopper could be a very viable and fun variation. I'm not sure where else to put this, I just hope the right person sees this.

Spoiler: Other hitbox issues

Also while I'm on the topic of hitbox issues, the second and occassionally third hit of 121 whiffs on people ducking most of the time, even though they are mids.
The condition that makes them whiff is usually if the first hit is ducked. And of course the bf2 procectile tends to whiff on some people crouch blocking but not others. A nice buff would be if it didn't whiff against any characters. Regardless of what is done, whether BF2 AMP hits on crouch block should be consistent throughout the entire cast.

 

[KutlessMyth]

I just watched a video and apparently F4 doesn't link to camera either

 

[DrFolmer]

I use it situationally. Very evasive characters who always have breakaway has to take damage in this variation. Losing restand outside corner (you can restand with camera, you just have to end combos early) is also a big thing. Throwing Shades needs to be in the dumpster, cause that move straight trash. I would use it more if b34 had a use in this variation

 

[RyuKazuya]

Yea not being able to cancel off of his b34 is a bummer. When I for some reason decide to play this variation, I use b34 u 3+4. I also hate that you cannot connect the photo shot after 34 on hit. Love that string and hate the fact that it doesn't work

 

[Deleted member 35141]

Lol he has enough highs and whiff issues without this terrible variation, cant honestly believe you think this variation is good.

As far as the other whiff issues there is a 60 page thread of people complaining of this and noone cares lol

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

I personally think that the ShowStopper variation of Johnny Cage could be his best variation, because of the grounded combo damage.

No it's not. I spent a few hours labbing it and the variation is hot garbage :
- Say Cheese over nutpunch : The obvious flaw. You lose one of his best tool that you replace it with an ersatz of the said tool. Awful start up, hits high, unsafer on block and can't connect with f4 and b34 midscreen, can't connect after 34. Can't use the move as a restand in a juggle combo without losing a ton of damage because of the start up.
Dumb Krushing Blow requirement (Need to either have the first hit props with a MB Say Cheese or whiff 3 Say Cheese on purpose before landing an MB one that only grant ~10% of damage without any other advantages (no extra hit advantage etc...) and takes 2 slots of variation.
- Throwing Shades is the dumbest projectile in the game. Ridiculous range, the move is not a true mid (will whiff on a neutral crouching / crouch blocking opponent unless the opponent is at max range or the closest to the attacker), awful start up and unsafe on block at -24 if I remember correctly. Same dumb KB requirement where Johnny has to hit the opponent with this crappy projectile as the first hit props or use it in a kombo that involves a canceled Fatal Blow, which is very rare. .You can use it at the end of a kombo but it does almost the same damage as a Say Cheese and leaves you at +2 when Say Cheeses leaves you at +4. You can't even use it to convert off a 34 because the move has such a broken hitbox and is slow as fuck and won't connect

But the variation has some strengths :

1. Unbreakable damage
2. Anti air restand with Say Cheese (but can't combo out of the MB version, of course)

That's it

It could be the worst variation in the whole game.

 

[KutlessMyth]

No it's not. I spent a few hours labbing it and the variation is hot garbage :
- Say Cheese over nutpunch : The obvious flaw. You lose one of his best tool that you replace it with an ersatz of the said tool. Awful start up, hits high, unsafer on block and can't connect with f4 and b34 midscreen, can't connect after 34. Can't use the move as a restand in a juggle combo without losing a ton of damage because of the start up.
Dumb Krushing Blow requirement (Need to either have the first hit props with a MB Say Cheese or whiff 3 Say Cheese on purpose before landing an MB one that only grant ~10% of damage without any other advantages (no extra hit advantage etc...) and takes 2 slots of variation.
- Throwing Shades is the dumbest projectile in the game. Ridiculous range, the move is not a true mid (will whiff on a neutral crouching / crouch blocking opponent unless the opponent is at max range or the closest to the attacker), awful start up and unsafe on block at -24 if I remember correctly. Same dumb KB requirement where Johnny has to hit the opponent with this crappy projectile as the first hit props or use it in a kombo that involves a canceled Fatal Blow, which is very rare. .You can use it at the end of a kombo but it does almost the same damage as a Say Cheese and leaves you at +2 when Say Cheeses leaves you at +4. You can't even use it to convert off a 34 because the move has such a broken hitbox and is slow as fuck and won't connect

But the variation has some strengths :

1. Unbreakable damage
2. Anti air restand with Say Cheese (but can't combo out of the MB version, of course)

That's it

It could be the worst variation in the whole game.

No hate, but it's like that line is all you read, I addressed what would need to be changed to make it the best variation and that's literally most of what you stated. Yea throwing shades sucks, Reborn's Air grab sucks, but Reborn is still a great variation. I think unbreakable damage is worth losing some tools in this game.

 

[thlityoursloat]

No hate, but it's like that line is all you read, I addressed what would need to be changed to make it the best variation and that's literally most of what you stated. Yea throwing shades sucks, Reborn's Air grab sucks, but Reborn is still a great variation. I think unbreakable damage is worth losing some tools in this game.

Sure, but not when your tools don't even work.

 

[KutlessMyth]

Lol he has enough highs and whiff issues without this terrible variation, cant honestly believe you think this variation is good.

As far as the other whiff issues there is a 60 page thread of people complaining of this and noone cares lol

unbreakable
damage
and if you go breakable you get more damage per bar than nutpunch, you lose like two plus frames on restand which still guaruntees an advantage.

 

[Name v.5.0]

No. This variation is possibly the worst in the game. It's so bad. No.

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

No hate, but it's like that line is all you read, I addressed what would need to be changed to make it the best variation and that's literally most of what you stated. Yea throwing shades sucks, Reborn's Air grab sucks, but Reborn is still a great variation. I think unbreakable damage is worth losing some tools in this game.

I've read everything, but nothing you said would be enough to make it at least a decent variation. The unbreakable damage could be worth dropping nut punch, but in the current build it is absolutly not the case. The variation could be viable but it's not like 80% of the current variations where a slight change can make them balanced. Showstopper needs more than that. If you give up your best tool for a 2-slot ability move, you should at least expect a better tool than the default one.

I've already wrote this somewhere else but here's my thoughts on how to make Showstopper viable :
Say Cheese :

• Start up down from 27 to 19~22 frames so we can use it at the end of some anti air 1/d1 combos and connect it after a 34
• Better range on the Say Cheese
• Say Cheese KB changed to something like "Unlocked after the third Say Cheese MB of the match"

Throwing Shades :

• The hitboxes are fixed and this is now a true mid projectile
• The Shades should be like -3 or -4 on block
• The startup should be low enough to not be poked out to make it a pressure tool but long enough to have a Flawless Block gap that would leave Cage at -11~-13
• The Krushing Blow requirement should be like "Triggered if it connects as the 8th hit or more in a combo"

That would be enough in my opinion, it doesn't seem too powerful.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

unbreakable
damage
and if you go breakable you get more damage per bar than nutpunch, you lose like two plus frames on restand which still guaruntees an advantage.

This game isn't all about damage especially with Johnny, not to mention the camera being so shit limits your combo starters.

Sorry but nut punch, b34 starter, mime time are more important than a camera that does unbreakable damage IF you land it.

The positive people seem to forget when someone breaks away is after their open to be bullied on wake up until the bars fill back up.