Question Should NRS emphasize skill in character design in future titles.

[Wigy]

I'm finding that until the very highest level there is a colossal disparity on the skill required to make a character work compared to previous titles and relatively between the cast.

I think this might be one of the contributing reasons for a lot of people finding the game stale and boring.

Character designs are dumbed down and more linear. This means people struggle to express their style in their character. Also means that online is currently the same characters on repeat. Even when you win it's just painful and frustrating.

 

[Braindead]

I'm finding that until the very highest level there is a colossal disparity on the skill required to make a character work compared to previous titles and relatively between the cast.

Tanya and Alien took a shit ton of skill amirite

 

[xenogorgeous]

here we go again .... hehe

 

[Wigy]

Tanya and Alien took a shit ton of skill amirite

I mean they were just flat out OP. Jax isn't OP he's just crazy simple, Liu Kang is stupid and braindead.

Dragonata Tanya still more interesting design than literally anyone in mk11.

My poll answers were just a joke, not out to make another Liu witch-hunt thread. But he is the worst offender.

 

[Sutter Pain]

The next MK will be all auto combos and 1 button specials, get ready.

 

[Vhozite]

I don't have a problem with simple characters but when they are too strong it messes up character variety. Especially when the character is already popular due to being a mascot or something.

Like to use a Street Fighter example, Ryu is already the most played character as he is the mascot and has a very low skill floor. When you make him top tier it just floods the online community with people playing him.

I hate making complicated characters good just because, but if they aren't then there is no reason to play them besides aesthetics. Liu is pretty straight forward and definitely already popular, so making him also top tier just gets you...what we have now.

 

[magandi]

I'm finding that until the very highest level there is a colossal disparity on the skill required to make a character work compared to previous titles and relatively between the cast.

there isn't a big disparity in skill between the cast. it's almost non existent. in tekken 7 characters like noctis and kazuya don't even play the same game.

 

[Wigy]

there isn't a big disparity in skill between the cast. it's almost non existent. in tekken 7 characters like noctis and kazuya don't even play the same game.

This just isn't vaguely true though up til the highest level. Why is 50% of online Jax and Kang? Jax isn't even considered top.

 

[magandi]

This just isn't vaguely true though up til the highest level.

who is so much harder to play than liu?

 

[Wigy]

who is so much harder to play than liu?

I'd put it this way. The counterplay to beat kangs staggers and game is SO much harder than it is to implement.

It's not just a characters skill, but the skill it takes to counter their gameplan.

But pretty much the entire cast outside maybe Jax.

 

[John Grizzly]

Watching the way NinjaKilla played Liu Kang in MKX and then seeing Liu Kang in MK11 makes me sick. I LOVED watching his LK in MKX. It was so fun to watch that it made me want to start playing MKX again. Watching Liu Kang (and MK11 in general, really) makes me just hope season 3 of Tekken 7 isn't far off.

And although not as high tier, I'd go as far to say Hunker Down Jax is nearly as braindead as LK, though. What a stupid design. NRS managed to make me despise one of my favorite MK characters of all time (I've always hated Liu Kang, though).

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I'm finding that until the very highest level there is a colossal disparity on the skill required to make a character work compared to previous titles and relatively between the cast.

I think this might be one of the contributing reasons for a lot of people finding the game stale and boring.

Character designs are dumbed down and more linear. This means people struggle to express their style in their character. Also means that online is currently the same characters on repeat. Even when you win it's just painful and frustrating.

I think that one of the things people don't get is that they communicated this clearly from the outset.

The reason that character designs seem simpler is that the game was made to focus less on heaping tech/setups on people, and far more on fundamentals and footsies, spacing. So they intentionally simplified certain aspects (combos, setups, and insane pressure) in order to build the gameplay around the neutral.

Whether or not you like this style of game is a personal preference, but saying it's about "more emphasis on skill" is just flat-out incorrect. Just because you learn a character like Liu Kang in a couple weeks, doesn't mean that you're going to be able to beat someone who is more skilled controlling space than you are, and that's how the game is designed. In MKX you could beat people by simply having more tricks and tech up your sleeve, but it's much harder to do so in MK11. It doesn't have a lot of shortcuts around just playing old-fashioned fighting games. The skill is in how you play it (like Samurai Showdown), not just the complexity of characters and their movesets.

 

[Qwark28]

If you want legitimate depth from your fighting games, don't play NRS titles.

Skill in character design is relative to the game, and you're confusing it.

Just above, you have someone who says "I miss NK's MKX LK, MK11 LK is so boring", in which game he was your run of the mill run cancel x3 char.

People abuse the term braindead. Most chars in NRS titles are very, very simple. The community's definition of braindead is a character that is even more elementary level than simple.

Character designs and skill required for use are 2 different topics. IGAU had mostly good character designs, MK titles a little less so. MK11 way less, because it's designed to homogenize and dumb down into a basic and simple game, here's your copy of guilty gear's instant block system in place of armour, here's your U2 and U3, here's your soda refill meter.

The game is literally meant to have linear designs. There's only so many ways you can make chars adhere to the game's rules. It shouldn't take you 5 months to realise.

 

[Espio]

Saw this, thought of you ;_;

 

[Kenshi-Keanu-Kool]

I'm finding that until the very highest level there is a colossal disparity on the skill required to make a character work compared to previous titles and relatively between the cast.

I think this might be one of the contributing reasons for a lot of people finding the game stale and boring.

Character designs are dumbed down and more linear. This means people struggle to express their style in their character. Also means that online is currently the same characters on repeat. Even when you win it's just painful and frustrating.

you " HIGH LEVEL PLAYERS " are always asking for " Based footsie game play " , the " Neutral " , the playing it smart " , it should be like SF " , there you have it . You people are crying and " VOMITING " this words since Injustice 1 . MkX its the perfect game for MK . Of course some of the BS patterns infinite's on block like Liu Kang and Kung Laos should be fixed , but overall mkx its the way to go . Just add the new rolls the new wake up sytem and perfect blocks and thats fine . MK 11 has ggod things too . But the kRUSHING bLOWS are a big NO NO !!

 

[Damaja325]

unfortunately, we have to deal with this stale bs for the next 4 or so years. maybe mk12 will be great like mkx but i won't hold my breath.

 

[PapaRegadetho]

Jesus Christ, THIS GAME IS SUPER EASY WITH ANY CHARACTER yet here we are with the narative " he is the worst offender " You're the one who were complaining about the character when he was hard to play in Dragon's Fire. Like there is legitimately ways to to counter the character, you and a bunch of others just keep telling a story until it becomes a fact. He'll inevitably be nerfed and thats fine, but ooohhh boy i cant wait to see who we'll crucify next , just hope it isnt Cage, the way this community is know for, it just might happen.

 

[Parasurama]

Jesus Christ, THIS GAME IS SUPER EASY WITH ANY CHARACTER yet here we are with the narative " he is the worst offender " You're the one who were complaining about the character when he was hard to play in Dragon's Fire. Like there is legitimately ways to to counter the character, you and a bunch of others just keep telling a story until it becomes a fact. He'll inevitably be nerfed and thats fine, but ooohhh boy i cant wait to see who we'll crucify next , just hope it isnt Cage, the way this community is know for, it just might happen.

It is true. The most shocking thing about most of these people who are complaining now ... is that it takes them so many months to complain when he plays the same as the beginning of the game. It took so many months to work on f43 and they call LK brain dead.
Regarding the OP... I like complexity and tech... yet as mentioned by another... the simple footsies based game is what they are going for and I am fine with it.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Saw this, thought of you ;_;

Looooooooool... I'm crying

 

[spidey300]

mk12 waiting room. nothing wrong with having an emphasis on fundamentals, footsies, and slightly slow neutral but don't just throw complexity out the window.

 

[xWildx]

I’m just going to beat the dead horse here, but one of the major problems is the lack of customs. The game was sold to us on this.

Sure, Boon mentioned them maybe not making it into the competitive scene, but that’s not how the game was shown to us at any point leading up to release (save a few weeks before). Allowing customs would’ve enabled people to put their own mark on a character, coming up with crazy combinations of moves that others may not have even thought of.

The game would stay fresh as people experiment, and we’d surely see some crazy plays and combos from variations we simply can’t create competitively right now.

 

[NaCl man]

There needs to be options for harder to play characters and a lot more depth to design.tekken is a great example of this.
Not everybody can do chdf2 pewgf but I can and like the option to use it. I know not everybody wants to spend the time learning things like this so there are other characters for you.

Personally this is a big reason I dropped this game.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I’m just going to beat the dead horse here, but one of the major problems is the lack of customs. The game was sold to us on this.

Sure, Boon mentioned them maybe not making it into the competitive scene, but that’s not how the game was shown to us at any point leading up to release (save a few weeks before). Allowing customs would’ve enabled people to put their own mark on a character, coming up with crazy combinations of moves that others may not have even thought of.

The game would stay fresh as people experiment, and we’d surely see some crazy plays and combos from variations we simply can’t create competitively right now.

Took the words right out of my head.

Waiting until the Beta was over to officially announce there was not only no competitive customization will always be where the wind went out of the sails.

If you did a bit of damage scaling, you could unlock everything, let everyone do as they please, and the top would still probably look the same. And players like Fox and Rewind and the like would still find the ways to win consistently, but at least then everyone would have a chance to be top tier.

They've been winding down the depth ever since Injustice 2, and now this is the results. How you go from MKX Liu, who was easily one of the hardest characters in the game to master, to this linear simplicity, is astounding.

 

[cavemold]

What’s your definition of skill ? Longer inputs to do basic combos ?

 

[Sutter Pain]

There needs to be options for harder to play characters and a lot more depth to design.tekken is a great example of this.
Not everybody can do chdf2 pewgf but I can and like the option to use it. I know not everybody wants to spend the time learning things like this so there are other characters for you.

Personally this is a big reason I dropped this game.

Or we can have 22 slighlty different version of vanilla Kazumi.