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Should Noob Saibot be re-banned from the Juggernaut version?

Should Noob Saibot be banned from future UMK3 tournies?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 25.0%
  • No

    Votes: 24 75.0%

  • Total voters
    32

AC1984

Kaballin!
Eric, on piece of paper and tier wise a lot of things are possible....when you are faced against a machine that jab-blocks everything and does not make too many mistakes or bad reads, everything you know becomes useless. In order to compete against players like NoDoubt, REO or Marvin, you gotta play a different game where combos, little scenarios and mind games become unpractical....
 

nwo

Noob
The real question should be...

"Should we be using the Juggernauts hack for offline tournies?"

I'd say the answer is no.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Eric, on piece of paper and tier wise a lot of things are possible....when you are faced against a machine that jab-blocks everything and does not make too many mistakes or bad reads, everything you know becomes useless. In order to compete against players like NoDoubt, REO or Marvin, you gotta play a different game where combos, little scenarios and mind games become unpractical....
Nah, it's just a different kind of mind game than you're used to. It's cool though, not everyone can compete at the highest level with glitch jabs, I only need 1 hand to count how many who can. That's why I kinda want to get into MK9, more competition.
 

9.95

Noob
Don't bother banning him. Less and less people will be joining UMK3 after REO exposed it for the 3 button, one tactic game that it is.

KARA JABS AND A DREAM!
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
Nah, it's just a different kind of mind game than you're used to. It's cool though, not everyone can compete at the highest level with glitch jabs, I only need 1 hand to count how many who can. That's why I kinda want to get into MK9, more competition.
But that's kind of the point....why put in the hard work and dedication when leveling-up decidedly makes the game extremely boring and borderline unplayable. Sure it' makes the game harder and few can play it at that level, but the question is why did we MAKE it that way? We are complaining about it but it was also US that ruined the game.....going by group-accountability.

Tbh, corner jab-traps are no different. I spoke a long time ago about how players ruin a fun game by using and abusing cheap bullshit tactics. SHould it be there? No. Did we have to expose it and use it? Not Really. The game didn't need it. It was fine before...it just goes to support my theory that gamers are lazy and want to easy-wins without dedicating the time and effort to have earned their wins properly.

Yea, it's the developers fault for leaving it in the game, but it's also OUR fault at the same time for using tactics and strategy that we already KNOW weren't supposed to be there.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
But that's kind of the point....why put in the hard work and dedication when leveling-up decidedly makes the game extremely boring and borderline unplayable. Sure it' makes the game harder and few can play it at that level, but the question is why did we MAKE it that way? We are complaining about it but it was also US that ruined the game.....going by group-accountability.

Tbh, corner jab-traps are no different. I spoke a long time ago about how players ruin a fun game by using and abusing cheap bullshit tactics. SHould it be there? No. Did we have to expose it and use it? Not Really. The game didn't need it. It was fine before...it just goes to support my theory that gamers are lazy and want to easy-wins without dedicating the time and effort to have earned their wins properly.
The game isn't ruined, lol. You guys just refuse to take it to the next level. Unfortunately that's using, and defending against the jabs. If you're unwilling to do them, and play against them, of course you're going to see them as making the game unplayable.
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
The game isn't ruined, lol. You guys just refuse to take it to the next level. Unfortunately that's using, and defending against the jabs. If you're unwilling to do them, and play against them, of course you're going to see them as making the game unplayable.
Dude....how can you possibly justify a tactic that allows you to attack WHILE blocking? it makes no sense and doesn't exist in any other game on the planet. In this instance the Playing to Win mentality is a Playing to Lose result.
 
Arez, I never thought glitch jabs made much since either. We shouldn't be able to attack and defend at the same time. When applying pressure, the attacker should be vulnerable. Otherwise, what reason does he have to ever slow down or back off. There is no risk vs. reward scenario with these jabs. It's all reward all the time. I understand Juggs pov too though. It's in the game, so it's just something that high level players are going to have to deal with and overcome.

Sorry for getting off topic. All I know is that at a high level, UMK3 appears to be most effectively played by rushing down your opponent with glitch jabs and countering anything you block while doing that. That being said, a character with a faster walk speed and higher vitality is undoubtedly at a big advantage. I don't really know if he's ban worthy though. If AC1984 could've spammed ia fireballs right off the ground to where they would've chipped Reo, then that match probably would've gone a different way.
 

RoGE

Noob
UMK3 noob should be banned imo, who cares about not having specials since he has 150% health, couldn't he abuse the hell out of glitch jabs without taking that much damage from chip? Just play the game how it was meant to be played.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
UMK3 noob should be banned imo, who cares about not having specials since he has 150% health, couldn't he abuse the hell out of glitch jabs without taking that much damage from chip? Just play the game how it was meant to be played.
Agreed, but it's more the point that AC1984 would've won had it not been for Noob's fundamental advantages. Phil made a thread specifically on the glitch jab abuse, though I'm sure you've already checked it out, lol.
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
If AC1984 could've spammed ia fireballs right off the ground to where they would've chipped Reo, then that match probably would've gone a different way.
It wouldn't matter cuz a glitch/kara jabbing Noob has the health lead and can advance during projectiles to dish out more damage than a few projectiles would take from him in the process of closing in. Chip damage has MUCH less efficacy on Noob due to his health than anyone else and it's basically sacrificing a Bishop for a Pawn.
 

ded

Elder God
Just wanted to share my vision:

Noob Advantages:
- its more like 130% health, not 150%
- the chip damage he takes is about 3 times less than regular characters (so, if talking about chip damage, then its 300% health)
- he takes chip damage in blocked combos only from the first hit (and jps/jks eventually)
- fastest walking speed (like shao kahn)
- there are two stages which make him hard to see, one of which is playable only via Kombat Kode
- around 40% combos mid-screen (with jps around 50%), around 60% combos corner
- his throw is the most damaging move in the game
- can recover faster
- can escape a whole jab pressure game just by holding back after counting the first jab
- male ninja properties

Noob Disadvantages:
- no special moves - that makes him completely useless against zoner character
- absolutely 0 air game
- absolutely 0 anti air game, except lucky aaHPs and regular HK
- absolutey 0 crossup counter game
- n9 in tier list, with some mid-tier characters making him completely useless (like sonya and stryker)
- cant counter blocked stuff in mid-screen and larger distance

Noob is weaker character than: Kabal, Human Smoke, Kung Lao (!), Kano, Reptile, Ermac, Nightwolf and Robot Smoke.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Just wanted to share my vision:

Noob Advantages:
- its more like 130% health, not 150%
- the chip damage he takes is about 3 times less than regular characters (so, if talking about chip damage, then its 300% health)
- he takes chip damage in blocked combos only from the first hit (and jps/jks eventually)
- fastest walking speed (like shao kahn)
- there are two stages which make him hard to see, one of which is playable only via Kombat Kode
- around 40% combos mid-screen (with jps around 50%), around 60% combos corner
- his throw is the most damaging move in the game
- can recover faster
- can escape a whole jab pressure game just by holding back after counting the first jab
- male ninja properties
Wow, I didn't even know about him having more resistance to chip damage, and him only taking chip from the first hit. Noob is actually viable with all this shit. But like you said, he suffers vs zoning and characters like Sonya that can outplay him for free.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Noob Disadvantages:
- no special moves - that makes him completely useless against zoner character
- absolutely 0 air game
- absolutely 0 anti air game, except lucky aaHPs and regular HK
- absolutey 0 crossup counter game
- n9 in tier list, with some mid-tier characters making him completely useless (like sonya and stryker)
- cant counter blocked stuff in mid-screen and larger distance

Noob is weaker character than: Kabal, Human Smoke, Kung Lao (!), Kano, Reptile, Ermac, Nightwolf and Robot Smoke.
But you just admitted some of his toughest matchups are against characters lower in the tier list than he is! :p
Sorry, just, wanted to point that out.. :oops:

Anyway, yeah, I didn't bother going over his situational assets (or rather, the lack of them), thought it was too obvious, thanks for the insight though man.
 

Tim Static

Adminerator
Just wanted to share my vision:

Noob Advantages:
- its more like 130% health, not 150%
- the chip damage he takes is about 3 times less than regular characters (so, if talking about chip damage, then its 300% health)
- he takes chip damage in blocked combos only from the first hit (and jps/jks eventually)
- fastest walking speed (like shao kahn)
- there are two stages which make him hard to see, one of which is playable only via Kombat Kode
- around 40% combos mid-screen (with jps around 50%), around 60% combos corner
- his throw is the most damaging move in the game
- can recover faster
- can escape a whole jab pressure game just by holding back after counting the first jab
- male ninja properties

Noob Disadvantages:
- no special moves - that makes him completely useless against zoner character
- absolutely 0 air game
- absolutely 0 anti air game, except lucky aaHPs and regular HK
- absolutey 0 crossup counter game
- n9 in tier list, with some mid-tier characters making him completely useless (like sonya and stryker)
- cant counter blocked stuff in mid-screen and larger distance

Noob is weaker character than: Kabal, Human Smoke, Kung Lao (!), Kano, Reptile, Ermac, Nightwolf and Robot Smoke.
YES! this. thank you ded! <3
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
Unfortunately, his advantages severely outnumber his disadvantages and when combined they give him an advantage in the game can't be believed until u play a very high-level Noob. Regardless of what surfaces here, the fact remains that he is a highly destructive force and makes you worker harder to beat him than any other character in the game. I'm not gonna lie when I say that he is harder to fight than Kabal and Human Smoke....I'm speaking the truth and people who know will agree.

Also, REO even said to me at WB6 that he was using Noob to show how broken he is and as long as they allow it, he willkeep using him. I think we have enough evidence to conclude our investigation that he doesn't fit in properly w/ the rest of the cast. REO and Simon were both rusty....if Noob was balanced and viable, he shouldn't have beaten Kabal under any circumstances, especially not the domination that occured.

If anything, it should have been extremely close w/ a random upset by Noob.....not total destruction by Noob the whole series. Look at all the nonsense Simon had to put up with just to get a win or two. It's ridiculous.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Yeah it's kinda weird. Noob is barely a top 10 character, but I think he's too broken based on how the game is played with chip damage and what not playing a huge role and he's basically immune to it.
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
And I REALLY REALLY hope all these voters are voting AFTER watching the WB6 UMK3 Grand Finals and seeing it for their own eyes, not just cuz they read and want to play "theory-fighter" in their head given the information shared. If you don't know what it's like to play him at high-level, your opinion shouldn't matter to anyone in the UMK3 Kommunity nor should you have even voted or given your input in the 1st place.

Please leave this decision up to the active UMK3 Kommunity in all entirety. You can not possibly pass good judgement on the matter w/out extensive experience and high-level play for concluding.

My own apprentice whoops my ASS when he uses Noob, no matter what character I use.....and I taught HIM!!!
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Unfortunately, his advantages severely outnumber his disadvantages and when combined they give him an advantage in the game can't be believed until u play a very high-level Noob. Regardless of what surfaces here, the fact remains that he is a highly destructive force and makes you worker harder to beat him than any other character in the game. I'm not gonna lie when I say that he is harder to fight than Kabal and Human Smoke....I'm speaking the truth and people who know will agree.

Also, REO even said to me at WB6 that he was using Noob to show how broken he is and as long as they allow it, he willkeep using him. I think we have enough evidence to conclude our investigation that he doesn't fit in properly w/ the rest of the cast. REO and Simon were both rusty....if Noob was balanced and viable, he shouldn't have beaten Kabal under any circumstances, especially not the domination that occured.

If anything, it should have been extremely close w/ a random upset by Noob.....not total destruction by Noob the whole series. Look at all the nonsense Simon had to put up with just to get a win or two. It's ridiculous.
This. I also wasn't aware of chip damage scaling like that on him either, he can essentially get one pop-up going and then lame it out for the rest of the round.. I was gonna go over this but I wasn't quite sure how to word it, lol. It's an interesting debate for sure, but it'll ultimately be more interesting the next time Phil's running a UMK3 tourney on MAME.. if ever. :p
 

ded

Elder God
i will not post in this thread anymore, its pointless... only one advice if anyone wants to test it, instead hating it in internet forums. AREZ, you say you play against REO often? Pick Stryker against his Noob Saibot for like 5 games, then even if you win or lose, doesnt matter, ask him to change his char into kabal, hsmoke, nightwolf... whatever, and compare the games. Then tell me the game is glitch jab fest and special moves are useless.

And dont tell me, Stryker is an exception, please... take care!
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
i will not post in this thread anymore, its pointless... only one advice if anyone wants to test it, instead hating it in internet forums. AREZ, you say you play against REO often? Pick Stryker against his Noob Saibot for like 5 games, then even if you win or lose, doesnt matter, ask him to change his char into kabal, hsmoke, nightwolf... whatever, and compare the games. Then tell me the game is glitch jab fest and special moves are useless.

And dont tell me, Stryker is an exception, please... take care!
What will Stryker do as far as Zoning Noob when Kabal can't even Zone Noob w/ IAFB? I don't see any point to trying it when I can already picture what happens......then I eat an easy-aaHP infinite cuz Noob launches me after I do an unsafe riot gun cuz he tricks me with GJ/KJ. Stryker is in my top 5, I have tried him on Noob several times....he's not as effective as he may appear to be. I actually have best luck w/ Ermac, but Noob still manages to cheat me and gets some cheezy bullshit wins anyway LOL

Lol first: why are you guys playing a hacked version first place?
LOL cuz all the other versions are glitchy, freeze-up and they suck LOL
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
What will Stryker do as far as Zoning Noob when Kabal can't even Zone Noob w/ IAFB? I don't see any point to trying it when I can already picture what happens......then I eat an easy-aaHP infinite cuz Noob launches me after I do an unsafe riot gun cuz he tricks me with GJ/KJ. Stryker is in my top 5, I have tried him on Noob several times....he's not as effective as he may appear to be. I actually have best luck w/ Ermac, but Noob still manages to cheat me and gets some cheezy bullshit wins anyway LOL
He's right though, Stryker destroys Noob. But Noob having bad match-ups doesn't mean he's okay. At first I voted that he shouldn't be banned, but now after seeing that he's basically immune to chip, I say he should be banned. I mean he shouldn't even be playable anyway, so I say just ban him because if it's even a question then the answer should be yes.