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Question - Shinnok Should more overheads be like shinnok's?

Would you like to see these kinds of changes across most of the cast?

  • Yes

    Votes: 15 71.4%
  • No

    Votes: 6 28.6%

  • Total voters
    21

Error404

Noob
Why not have less direct 50/50s and more strings that start mid and hit oh/low ? That would mean that you would have to block more on reaction , rather than anticipation. It still wouldn't be super easy to block , but it also wouldn't feel like you just got vortexed out of a sure win.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
I'm honestly beginning to believe people on here put themselves in '5050' situations that arent real 5050 situations.
Somewhere in an alternate universe where MKX has unsafe overhead launchers and no mix-ups mid strings. TYM is discussing how boring the game is and how hard it is to open up their opponent.

"What if we could spend a bar (our resource) to put an overhead in a string where it would normally be low but its punishable and uses resource. This way if would create a bit more of a mind game for the opponent and a risky more exciting way for offense in MKX"
 
Alien is hella unsafe unless he cancels into his 7% overhead flip, that leaves him at -7.

I understand Alien is good, but why no shade at Cutthroat Kano, who is +8 after 50/50s for a bar, or -5 without, or Demolition who has the most ambiguous 50/50s in the game.

Let Lord Alien live prayeth to thee.
Fuck all of them
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Doubtful. A lot of people just don't like a game riddled with unreactable 50/50 starters that lead to huge rewards and can be made safe in some situations. Some like it, some don't.

It really is that simple.
Nah. Most of the Mixups in the game aren't actually mixups. Only the pro players have strengthened their mind to see through the facade. You have to believe the 50/50 isn't real so it can't hurt you.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
Nah. Most of the Mixups in the game aren't actually mixups. Only the pro players have strengthened their mind to see through the facade. You have to believe the 50/50 isn't real so it can't hurt you.

:DOGE

When I go up against demo sonya, hollywood cassie, etc. the game for me isn't fun whatsoever. I like how scorpion is designed where the low is more just a nuisance and a mindgame mixup instead of leading to big damage. Playing scorpion (talking ninjitsu), you know that the real threat is the overhead. So, you default stand block, so what if you eat the tackle. But, that leads to a fun meta where the scorpion can just tick away with the low, then throw, etc. It feels fair to me.

Sort of off topic, I just wish MKXL stressed a more conventional 2D neutral. To me, the 50/50s aren't the crux of the issue, it's the ease/frequency/relentless nature of some characters ability to apply them thoughtlessly. You can't blame players for throwing out oh or low buttons/specials that launch, lead to full combos, advance, and leave them safe or have a lot of pushback, whatever.....it's a tool available and players aren't to be faulted for using them.

You never really see normals or command normals being used in neutral or midscreen/fullscreen for the purpose of discouraging certain moves or movements which is a shame to me. The mobility of the whole cast is too strong imo, so characters who excel at range or are designed to control space are really hamstrung due to the ease of either running in, using a 3/4 screen normal or special that advances them, the strength of jumps vs AAs, or advancing armor, or whatever. I could rant forever, but I'll stop. I agree with the guy above who talks about the circle like nature of the game's issues and how they're all connected basically. Look at R Mika in SFV. She has mixup potential and is a savage in the corner, but you have to work your way in which is no small feat. That's balance for me.
 

gam224

The world's least hype player
If you are going to use an example of a character with a punishable overhead launcher you should go with Raiden, He is the GOD of punishable overheads.
I didn't want to do that because his overhead is cancel able and there are alot of safe launchers in this game but as a whole I think raiden is a well balanced character when it comes to his high low game. Higher risk higher reward
 

gam224

The world's least hype player
Alien is hella unsafe unless he cancels into his 7% overhead flip, that leaves him at -7.

I understand Alien is good, but why no shade at Cutthroat Kano, who is +8 after 50/50s for a bar, or -5 without, or Demolition who has the most ambiguous 50/50s in the game.

Let Lord Alien live prayeth to thee.
Cut throat should get the same thing, b1 now launches is punishable and no longer can be special cancelled and doesn't have a string off it
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
I think what Foxy is trying to say is that the definition of 50/50 mutated away from what it really means. Like how you hear many people now calling any cell phone captured photo of a group of people a "selfie" even if it's not a selfie by definition. People also call many situations a 50/50 situation even if it's not really a 50/50 situation by definition.

A real 50/50 situation is when you are completely helpless and can't do anything except guess right on the upcoming mixup. If your opponent have an overhead and low starters that goes into full combos and harassing you with footsies and/or staggers and you're just setting there paralyzed by fear trying to block the following mixup, that's not a 50/50 situation. If you can jump out, armour out or even fucking rage quit, it's not a real 50/50 situation.

Currently the only characters who can put you in a true 50/50 situation are vortex characters and, of course, bitchass demo Sonya. Quan Chi used to have a true 50/50 before MKXL but he no longer does. Fun to blockables/ Hard to reactable mixups are not 50/50's.

I think that's what Foxy meant by his post, Or i could be wrong and actually have no clue what hes talking about. He just loves being ambiguous on purpose for some reason.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I think what Foxy is trying to say is that the definition of 50/50 mutated away from what it really means. Like how you hear many people now calling any cell phone captured photo of a group of people a "selfie" even if it's not a selfie by definition. People also call many situations a 50/50 situation even if it's not really a 50/50 situation by definition.

A real 50/50 situation is when you are completely helpless and can't do anything except guess right on the upcoming mixup. If your opponent have an overhead and low starters that goes into full combos and harassing you with footsies and/or staggers and you're just paralyzed by fear of the following mixup that you're trying to block it, that's not a 50/50 situation. If you can jump out, armour out or even fucking rage quit, it's not a real 50/50 situation.

Currently the only characters who can put you in a true 50/50 situation are vortex characters and, of course, bitchass demo Sonya. Quan Chi used to have a true 50/50 before MKXL but he no longer does. Fun to blockables/ Hard to reactable mixups are not 50/50's.

I think that's what Foxy meant by his post, Or i could be wrong and actually have no clue what hes talking about. He just loves being ambiguous on purpose for some reason.
If that's the case then he purposely is making statements based on technicality, rather than context of discussion, which does no benefits to conversation.

No one is talking about "true 50/50 that forces vortex" or whatever. Or very few are.

Nearly everyone is specifically talking about 50/50 OH/Low starters that lead to incredibly high rewards at minimal disadvantage for the attacker in many situations.

Its like when people call something a vortex and then there's that one guy to say "it's not a true vortex". What's the point if you know exactly what everyone is talking about?

Unreactable OH/Lows that lead to amazing reward is the subject. Talking around it due to wording or another meaning or whatever is the same as going off subject.
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
If that's the case then he purposely is making statements based on technicality, rather than context of discussion, which does no benefits to conversation.

No one is talking about "true 50/50 that forces vortex" or whatever. Or very few are.

Nearly everyone is specifically talking about 50/50 OH/Low starters that lead to incredibly high rewards at minimal disadvantage for the attacker in many situations.

Its like when people call something a vortex and then there's that one guy to say "it's not a true vortex". What's the point if you know exactly what everyone is talking about?

Unreactable OH/Lows that lead to amazing reward is the subject. Talking around it due to wording or another meaning or whatever is the same as going off subject.
Yeah well, that's what he does in similar threads, Whenever someone is having issues with the game mechanics and thinks it should change to something different/better Foxy be like "Das juss yo fawlt, git gud nigga, yada yada yada". Dunno wither if hes just being cocky or actually that fucking satisfied with the current state of the game.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Yeah well, that's what he does in similar threads, Whenever someone is having issues with the game mechanics and thinks it should change to something different/better Foxy be like "Das juss yo fawlt, git gud nigga, yada yada yada". Dunno wither if hes just being cocky or actually that fucking satisfied with the current state of the game.
Nah it's not just him. Some people love the game so much that a character named Lord Shitus could be created that throws actual feces at his opponent and they would defend it. They'll always defend anything ever criticized.

Nothing wrong with liking the mechanics of the game, but it is very possible many people objectively dislike those same mechanics when they operate the way they do.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Sub's 50/50 is pretty fair (mid screen at least, it's cheap in the corner), overhead is minus 13 and launches for 22%, low won't even combo on males without meter and pretty low damage even compared to some characters meterless lows.
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
What NRS should stop with in the first place is randomly turning would-be Mids into OH or Low because fuck it.

Started with Noob and Quan in MK9 and they decided to go nuts in Injustice bringing in stupid cross-up setups into the mix.

And then there's MKX where people got so accustomed to the idea that they started ASKING for Mids to be turned Lows or OHs.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
The worst part is that casuals that actually play won't stick around if they go online after beating story and play someone who seems to always be on top of them and pressing Mixups and resets they barely see coming. Only high damage unforgiving game that stays is filled with comic book characters and a lot of flash.
Can we please stop acting like "a casual" is some weird species of monkey that happens to look like us and enjoy the same things we do, but is otherwise inferior because they can't perform one frame links and jab anti-airs?
 

Rathalos

Play Monster Hunter!
For Injustice 2 I would definitely prefer if OH's were universally not combo starters.

With a few oddities like a few characters who had OH starters and weak lows.
Or characters who had both, but they were either very unsafe, or they had significant issues in other areas.

I understand why MKX went that way, but I'm just kinda sick of it and need a break.
 

gam224

The world's least hype player
but you can combo off of overheads in sfv.....
@oaoo94 I don't want to see MK become street fighter, 50/50's are engrained into the structure of the game at this point and it would be unreasonable to nerf all overheads so that they don't combo at all
 
@oaoo94 I don't want to see MK become street fighter, 50/50's are engrained into the structure of the game at this point and it would be unreasonable to nerf all overheads so that they don't combo at all
i don't in any way see how that's related to my post but I'll agree. All nrs stands gain by copying other fighting games is to lose their niche.

Edit: Never mind didn't see the @. My b.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Can we please stop acting like "a casual" is some weird species of monkey that happens to look like us and enjoy the same things we do, but is otherwise inferior because they can't perform one frame links and jab anti-airs?
Casual meaning people who just remember pulling of fatalities when they were 8. They buy the game and just hop on to bust out some combos they figured out or went to YouTube for. Are you trying to tell me that everyone who bought MK or SF, really popular fighting game franchises, actually goes on sites like TYM and learns strategies and resets and all that other stuff?

Cause I'm still finding people in real life who don't understand it's ok to hit people in the air (a combo) and that it's sometimes you should block. Those are the people I'm referring to. People that just hop on to play a couple fights. Not to learn MUs and tighten their pressure strings.