Question - Cassie Cage Should EX glow kick launch?

[Scott The Scot]

@ESG Jagged Please learn how to quote correctly, it makes it very difficult to reply efficiently.

First point is not dead, wrong you are just very ingnorant and can't make an actual counter argument.

You f***ing edited it you fool, what I said was a direct quote of you. I can literally see that you said command grab and can also see that you edited your post. You are an idiot.

also if she does restand she can be knocked out of most her options with a simple D1 or D4 with alot of characters.. which is what i was saying, its not that advantageuos , nothing compared to the old Nutpuch restand.

Yeah I addressed that before you even said anything. You don't understand frame data clearly. Not my fault.

What world is liu not have mad recovery on full screen zoning.. if you block low fire ball, and you use one of the above options you described, welcome to another fire ball, this time it hits.. lets say you use stamina to get in quicker while blocking, Liu has plenty of options to over ride anything you do, and send you full screen again

I'm sorry you are losing in the neutral game and playing inefficiently/incorrectly. You should level up. His low fireball is negative a million. It's your turn, seriously - get good.

 

[Scott The Scot]

YOU my girl are incorrect.

Of course you'll defend your friend. You. The Johnny Cage player. I'm not incorrect. I'm done. Done replying to you trolls. Have a good night.

 

[I Am The LK]

Of course you'll defend your friend. You. The Johnny Cage player. I'm not incorrect. I'm done. Done replying to you trolls. Have a good night.

You are incorrect my girl. It's true. You have false facts and have failed as a fact giver

 

[MadeOfMetal]

@ESG Jagged Please learn how to quote correctly, it makes it very difficult to reply efficiently.

First point is not dead, wrong you are just very ingnorant and can't make an actual counter argument.

You f***ing edited it you fool, what I said was a direct quote of you. I can literally see that you said command grab and can also see that you edited your post. You are an idiot.


Yeah I addressed that before you even said anything. You don't understand frame data clearly. Not my fault.


I'm sorry you are losing in the neutral game and playing inefficiently/incorrectly. You should level up. His low fireball is negative a million. It's your turn, seriously - get good.

lol omg chill out. take that stuff into the PM instead of openly breaking rules so all new comers can see it.

you run the risk of scaring others from this site by talking down to other users in threads

 

[Phosferrax]

You are incorrect my girl. It's true. You have false facts and have failed as a fact giver

Even for you that's a pretty poor troll attempt.

 

[God Confirm]

Yeah she should still have her corner vortex. Gun shots are over rated, they're good, but over rated - lots of recover and easily whiff punished but nobody has labbed that really other than Cassie players. The're also like -23 on block or something.

I've labbed it, and they are far from overrated. I also don't know what you mean by -23 on block, I know that's what the frame data says, but if you've labbed it you know it's much lower. I could get it safe against 11f moves so it's at most -10, and it rarely is getting blocked from any closer than midscreen and if it does then it's your mistake for not pressing B1 instead, so it's basically completely safe, and it's even safer on whiff.

I mean, in the corner GM and HW both do big damage (Sub can do more than Cassie). But Sub Zero can safe armour break with a mixup (Cassie can't anymore) - I dno, we'll need to see once the patch is out how everything is.

Cassie gets way more damage than Sub yo, 242 starter gets 58% with EX-Nutpunch into block string, her 50/50 does like 2-4% less. And about armor breaking, is Cassie's F44 changed or something? Because that breaks like every armor in the game cept punchwalk, on top of that, there is no armorable gap in her vortex , making it better than Subs

lol omg chill out. take that stuff into the PM instead of openly breaking rules so all new comers can see it.

you run the risk of scaring others from this site by talking down to other users in threads

Nothing compared to the damage people like you do to the site with this shit, downplay and agenda pushing, it just ruins discussion and makes this community look terrible. I don't blame Scott for a second for getting annoyed with you, even if I don't agree with him on everything, he knows how to have a sensible discussion and put his opinions forth in an honest and reasonable manner and thats far more important

 

[Scott The Scot]

I've labbed it, and they are far from overrated. I also don't know what you mean by -23 on block, I know that's what the frame data says, but if you've labbed it you know it's much lower. I could get it safe against 11f moves so it's at most -10, and it rarely is getting blocked from any closer than midscreen and if it does then it's your mistake for not pressing B1 instead, so it's basically completely safe, and it's even safer on whiff.

Okay, I just went to the lab again and I'll admit they're not as bad as I recalled. I'll hold that. They're -12 on block, at the lowest possible height I could do them with a hitbox. I don't know how you managed -10 lol. I assumed they were -23 on block because if they're air guns, and on block, they have to be instant air (or close to it). I take back what I said about air guns.

Cassie gets way more damage than Sub yo, 242 starter gets 58% with EX-Nutpunch into block string, her 50/50 does like 2-4% less. And about armor breaking, is Cassie's F44 changed or something? Because that breaks like every armor in the game cept punchwalk, on top of that, there is no armorable gap in her vortex , making it better than Subs

She does not do 58% in the corner even with the chip at the end for one bar, she needs two bars of meter for that. I said armour breaking specfically off of a mixup, F44 isn't a mixup. I don't really play Sub, so it's hard for me to really get into a MU comparison unfortunately. It may be better than Subs corner game, I don't know, but subs is high in damage and meterless. Cassie needs a bar for to be safe. Sub doesn't.

Nothing compared to the damage people like you do to the site with this shit, downplay and agenda pushing, it just ruins discussion and makes this community look terrible. I don't blame Scott for a second for getting annoyed with you, even if I don't agree with him on everything, he knows how to have a sensible discussion and put his opinions forth in an honest and reasonable manner and thats far more important

Cheers mate, appreciated!

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Almost anybody with a projectile doesn't care about air guns.

 

[God Confirm]

Okay, I just went to the lab again and I'll admit they're not as bad as I recalled. I'll hold that. They're -12 on block, at the lowest possible height I could do them with a hitbox.

Here's me spamming insta airs vs a Sonya set to reversal Flying Kick (12f). I'm just on a middle of the line Stick btw. So it's at least -11, it's possible I was wrong about -10, I was checking against an 11f reversal but wasn't QUITE point blank range so I think I was saving myself a frame, testing properly I'm a frame off. Maybe my insta-airs aren't quite perfect yet though, I don't main this character and I thought I got it to -10.

I don't know how you managed -10 lol

You got the divekicks, I got the insta airs

 

[shura30]

Cassie was an overpowered all aroud because exflip did wonders in both offense and defense
her gameplay was basically build around that move, bait, punish, antiair

playing her in the beta, while she's still got almost the same tools as before if not for a few more gaps, feels like they took away the ability to handle some situations just for the sake of making her life harder if confronted in said situations

other characters were given 6 frames d1s to counter heavy pressure, cassie has to sit there forever because people asked for it

there is a number of ways to patch the exflip out of the 'safe armored launcher' meme, they chose to completely remove the option instead of finding a way to let cassie keep the tool but not as overpowered as before

I'm using brawler atm as main variation to recreate the nutpunch feel and to switch the opponent's side as needed:

- there is a damage tradeoff to do the restand because combos need to be more specific, nothing big but her damage is already low because earlier nerfs
- f2 1+3 is listed as +4, nothing big considering df1 and f3 startups, just a better d3 check, backdashes would nullify the entire thing tho
- getting around characters with projectiles is a pain without iaks and hollywood isn't even worth picking just for those and that was already a weakness because trades were always against cassie
- both grabs can be easily stuffed, cannot be used to counter general 11 pressure
- damage conversions are non existant now, you may catch a crossup attempt with exdbf2 but still meh there's no game after that. jax and sub have an happy life now jumping all over her
- a wrong read may cost you the round, full combos on grab block plus the lack of a decent momentum switching move which almost everyone has
- staying safe in general involves wasting meter and going back to full screen where brawler surely won't shine

all they had to do was to make exflip unsafe just like lao's spin which is basically the same tool and reduce the - frames on df1

 

[Jer]

Almost anybody with a projectile doesn't care about air guns.

Thank you. People act like you have to live and die by IAG

 

[God Confirm]

Thank you. People act like you have to live and die by IAG

Either of you care to give an explanation?

 

[BlackJackSnack]

Stop

 

[shura30]

Either of you care to give an explanation?

trades are against cassie:

she gets hit out of the air while iak causes them to stagger
iceball, forceball and the like have obvious consequences
kitana goes under the iak with her fan
and the list goes on

from midscreen onward it's easy to duck under and full punish the recovery

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Either of you care to give an explanation?

Air guns do 7%, let's use Lao for an example, he can sit there throw his hat and guide it for basically no execution and trade his own 7% and get a knock down if they trade.

Kitana can catch a grounded fan. Gets knockdown and zoning advantage.

Mileena can Low Sai. Gets knockdown and zoning advantage.

Shinnok wins a trade by 1% in bone shaper.

Ronin Takeda has multiple options. Blade drop/call should be good for these situations.

Ferra Toss > Guns

 

[God Confirm]

Air guns do 7%, let's use Lao for an example, he can sit there throw his hat and guide it for basically no execution and trade his own 7% and get a knock down if they trade.

Kitana can catch a grounded fan. Gets knockdown and zoning advantage.

Mileena can Low Sai. Gets knockdown and zoning advantage.

Shinnok wins a trade by 1% in bone shaper.

Ronin Takeda has multiple options. Blade drop/call should be good for these situations.

Ferra Toss > Guns

Shes got like 13f start-up on a near instantaneous travel time projectile which is -11 on block. It's one of the best high hitting projectiles in the game, and trying to trade with it has never been profitable for anyone playing against me except for Kitana. I just dont feel it, my opinion tho

 

[Asodimazze]

It would be interesting to make her EX Glow Kick a launcher..an unsafe armored launcher wouldn't make her OP at all.
It is a fair way to compensate for the loss of armor on her ex flipkick imho.

 

[JJV Phoenix]

Nah, leave her how she is; scrubs will still fail to learn the MU and cry about her either way.
"That was supposed to be safe, brain dead reversal!" when they press a button at -5
"b1 should hit high" after eating a b1 instead of blocking a guaranteed b1 check
"Bullshit invincibility frames" when they never use a setup that would've broken armor anyway

Scrubs gonna scrub

 

[God Confirm]

Nah, leave her how she is; scrubs will still fail to learn the MU and cry about her either way.
"That was supposed to be safe, brain dead reversal!" when they press a button at -5
"b1 should hit high" after eating a b1 instead of blocking a guaranteed b1 check
"Bullshit invincibility frames" when they never use a setup that would've broken armor anyway

Scrubs gonna scrub

this is actually spot on

 

[PND_Ketchup]

I wish a ridiculous tool could be nerfed without people wanting other tools to become just as ridiculous.

If a nerf was given without any compensation buffs, that alone should be reason enough nothing else needs to change.

 

[UsedForGlue]

The reason Cassie lost armour on her MB Flipkick was because no armoured move in any game should launch AND be safe...I am 100% sure that Tremor will receive the same normalisation.

You have to understand that when you use an armoured attack, you are making a read on an attack, and if you are right you will win because you are armoured, but if you are wrong...you are wrong.

In the current build of the game, Cassie could literally MB flip kick, blow through attacks, launch and be safe, there is no way that should be like it is.

Now, if you want to be safe on a certain string, use MB flip kick, and be happy that you will launch the opponent and be entirely safe if you are wrong or just throwing it out.

What it means for Cassie players now, is that you have to make a proper read and use your other armoured move (incase you forgot she has other armoured options), and you have to guess right or you will be punished...just like everyone else, and there should be no compensation for this. This is how an armoured move is supposed to behave.

 

[Tigerbang]

Wow!! I'm starting to think these troll threads are getting out of hand...lol cough,cough (Quan Chi Buffs) cough,cough (something about Kung Lao being terrible).
All I can say is= THE SALT IS REEEEEEEEEEEAL!!! Lol omg NRS should get an award for all the ridiculous BS there game has gotten people to say on this site alone.

 

[Scott The Scot]

I wish a ridiculous tool could be nerfed without people wanting other tools to become just as ridiculous.

If a nerf was given without any compensation buffs, that alone should be reason enough nothing else needs to change.

I don't understand why EX Glow Kick launching shouldn't be a thing now. It is a way to allow variations like Spec Ops and Hollywood to spend a bar for more midscreen damage rather than just saving it for EX Flip. She does lower than avarage damage midscreen already, since she's getting rid of her crazy tools that were overpowered it would make sense to change the properties of the first hit of EX Glow Kick. It's still going to be very unsafe, it just gives her a reward for using it and it's an incentive to use meter in combos.

The reason Cassie lost armour on her MB Flipkick was because no armoured move in any game should launch AND be safe...I am 100% sure that Tremor will receive the same normalisation.

You have to understand that when you use an armoured attack, you are making a read on an attack, and if you are right you will win because you are armoured, but if you are wrong...you are wrong.

In the current build of the game, Cassie could literally MB flip kick, blow through attacks, launch and be safe, there is no way that should be like it is.

Now, if you want to be safe on a certain string, use MB flip kick, and be happy that you will launch the opponent and be entirely safe if you are wrong or just throwing it out.

What it means for Cassie players now, is that you have to make a proper read and use your other armoured move (incase you forgot she has other armoured options), and you have to guess right or you will be punished...just like everyone else, and there should be no compensation for this. This is how an armoured move is supposed to behave.

Nobodies arguing about EX Flip Kick being nerfed, it needed to be done and it is. But she has a gap in B212D1+2, and lost her midscreen meterless vortex. Cassie currently gets no reward for EX Glow Kick other than a +4 tech rollable knockdown. The risk however is being -51. Since she has lost her utiliy EX Flip that did everything, it would be nice if you got something for using EX Glow Kick.

 

[shura30]

omg the debate is stil whether or not the exflip should be safe while every single cassie player is agreeing it shouldn't

 

[Scott The Scot]

omg the debate is stil whether or not the exflip should be safe while every single cassie player is agreeing it shouldn't

This thread is about Ex Glow Kick. Go to another thread to talk abotu Ex Flip.

And no, not every Cassie player is agreeing that it shouldn't be safe but still armoured. Some Cassie players prefer that it's not armoured but safe.