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Question - Cassie Cage Should EX glow kick launch?

Should ex bf4 launch?

  • HELL to the NO stop crying shes still top 5

  • Yes good idea High Fives for you


Results are only viewable after voting.

omooba

fear the moobs
You would use the meterless flip since it was a 6 frame reversal to punish stuff on block. You'd use the metered flip to wakeup, make mixups safe, armour break safely off of situations in which her other armour breaking options would be too slow.
remember how they nerfed erron's command grab because he had multiple enders but no one used them because the grab had everything. i think it's the same for flip kick.
i completely agree with them taking away the armor property. she's still very good on wake up you just don't get everything out of one option. and there's no scenario where 50/50 into ex nutpunch won't break armor as far as i know. shit raw ex nutpunch might work too if timed right
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
remember how they nerfed erron's command grab because he had multiple enders but no one used them because the grab had everything. i think it's the same for flip kick.
i completely agree with them taking away the armor property. she's still very good on wake up you just don't get everything out of one option. and there's no scenario where 50/50 into ex nutpunch won't break armor as far as i know. shit raw ex nutpunch might work too if timed right
The key thing that Ex Flip had in regards to armour breaking was that it's option select. You'd do like D3/Mixup~EX Flip and if the person woke up it would break the armour and launch them for a combo into another shitty situation for the opponent however if they didn't wakeup, you'd do a mixup or whatever cancelled into EX Flip and be safe. Doing it into EX Nutpunch would work, sure, but you're -23 if you guess wrong on them waking up and you don't launch them for a full combo. It's a tool but, meh, why would you do that when there's safer, better, options available?
 

omooba

fear the moobs
The key thing that Ex Flip had in regards to armour breaking was that it's option select. You'd do like D3/Mixup~EX Flip and if the person woke up it would break the armour and launch them for a combo into another shitty situation for the opponent however if they didn't wakeup, you'd do a mixup or whatever cancelled into EX Flip and be safe. Doing it into EX Nutpunch would work, sure, but you're -23 if you guess wrong on them waking up and you don't launch them for a full combo. It's a tool but, meh, why would you do that when there's safer, better, options available?
that just goes back to me saying it had everything. there was literally nothing you could ask for that it didn't have. now it doesn't cover everything.
i think we're agreeing lol
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
that just goes back to me saying it had everything. there was literally nothing you could ask for that it didn't have. now it doesn't cover everything.
i think we're agreeing lol
I think we are, I wasn't disagreeing - just talking about my character lol.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
She gets 28% off of B1 in Brawler. The Spec Ops/Brawler BnB is:
B12 (or 50/50)~Flip, run~212, B12~Ender (Takedown/Glow Kick/Missile).
The online bnb is B12~Flip, run~F24~Takedown (25% in Brawler)

Only Hollywood should be missing the 'run~212' after flip so it can guarentee meterless + frames but that won't be a thing after the patch probably now that she gets no guarenteed followup. Her midscreen damage is lower than average, but that's not the end of the world. I'd prefer if they made 242 launch a little higher or longer in the air, or closer so that Cassie can connect a NJP. Even if she wasn't allowed to connect a NJP I'd like it if I could connect airgrab and/or jump kick after 242 on females.
LOL. So happy this supposed netcode will mean I can use actual BnBs. Sometimes I don't even use F24 because it's a bit tight. So how much is that combo for Hollywood and Spec Ops, 25%? Brawler could keep up with the cast in damage but the others sacrificed that meterless damage for the setup potential. Now Spec Ops seems way more a hassle to give up what HW and Brawler can do. I don't know much about HW to know if the changes really hurt but not being to shorten a combo to get meterless plus frame does suck.
of all the characters than had safe armored launchers only hers was 6 frames which means she could punish stuff that are supposed to be safe
It's a normal thing for some characters to punish things things others normally can't. You can definitely balance a character with that in mind and I think Cassie was pretty close.
 

omooba

fear the moobs
It's a normal thing for some characters to punish things things others normally can't. You can definitely balance a character with that in mind and I think Cassie was pretty close.
i know and it's usually not that bad but my 2nd main has been ferra/torr and her punishing b1212 made me so salty
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
LOL. So happy this supposed netcode will mean I can use actual BnBs. Sometimes I don't even use F24 because it's a bit tight. So how much is that combo for Hollywood and Spec Ops, 25%? Brawler could keep up with the cast in damage but the others sacrificed that meterless damage for the setup potential. Now Spec Ops seems way more a hassle to give up what HW and Brawler can do. I don't know much about HW to know if the changes really hurt but not being to shorten a combo to get meterless plus frame does suck.
Yeah for sure, the run~212 isn't something I'd do online lol. In Hollywood the BnB without meterless + frames is 26% iirc (I don't remember because I always go for meterless plus frames since if I want damage I can just do B212d1+2~Ex Guns to add 14% to the combo). The BnB ended with Glowkick is 25% (it's techable but you're +36). Honestly with Spec Ops, there aren't really any meterless midscreen setups, they're all gimmicks for the most part I just do B12~Flip, run~212, B124 for the corner carry since Spec Ops corner game is absolutely f'ing mental lol. You can use Spec Ops missile setups to force a delayed wakeup and therefore a 50/50 I guess so that's not so bad.

Also, F24 is easy to get after flip. The trick is to let the F2's range do all the work by doing only a micro run cancel ;)
 
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Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
When you do it offline. Online sometimes it's a micro run cancel, sometimes it's running during the flip lol.
I buffer run during flip so that run comes out first frame lol would I be buffering it during b12? haha . I don't play online, but I'd just try and do it by muscle memory and ignore what I see on the screen lol.
 

Samsara

Resident Cynic
Royal Contributor
If we're asking for luxury buffs now, I'd like Subby's ex slide to launch for a combo, that way I could use it as a swaggy combo ender. I mean, what's the point of spending the meter on an unsafe armored move if all we get is a side switch? I say let us do our standard bnb with this latest buff as follows:

B12xx Ice Aura, B12xx Ice Ball, FJP, B12xx Frost Bomb, RC, F42xx Enhanced Icy Slide, RC F42xx Icy Slide for 38% :DOGE
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
how about she gets Good Projectiles in Brawler, in all variations.. her projectile is slow as fuq.. and is out traded by most of the cast.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
The point of the nerf is to make her weaker. It's not a coincidence that she gets weaker after the nerf. This is a good thing.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
how about she gets Good Projectiles in Brawler, in all variations.. her projectile is slow as fuq.. and is out traded by most of the cast.
I don't think it suits her play style to have a projectile in all variations that she can actually zone and keep people out with. She is more of a rushdown character. Fullscreen is her kryptonite kind of thing. Her slow gun is fine as it is, if you want a faster startup projectile then you'd go to Hollywood for iag.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
The point of the nerf is to make her weaker. It's not a coincidence that she gets weaker after the nerf. This is a good thing.
cept it effects all variations, not just Hollywood.

besides those of us that used Hollywood and Spec ops, are cyring, cuz we didn't deserve this.

btw on the beta.

if you attack Spec Ops after she calls bomb strike, her EX air strike disappears on map, before it hits ground.

what a dumb ass bug. if that carries im done with her completely.


and Brawler has enough problems already,

just because she gains 2 armored moves on moves that should have been, doesn't mean she will do any better. Zoners destroy Brawler.

and Hollywood is no longer Top 5.. lol, her Nutpuch has push back... flip kick gone... there is her mid-screen and general strategy.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
I don't think it suits her play style to have a projectile in all variations that she can actually zone and keep people out with. She is more of a rushdown character. Fullscreen is her kryptonite kind of thing. Her slow gun is fine as it is, if you want a faster startup projectile then you'd go to Hollywood for iag.
hollywood is dead and burried, id like some zoning in Bralwer... id make it the new style and walk with it.. reguardless if its what a brawler does.. she needs it in alot of matchups. ie Liu Kang, shinnok.. kitana, and so on.. anyone with a fast mid, or a low profiling projectile.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
The point of the nerf is to make her weaker. It's not a coincidence that she gets weaker after the nerf. This is a good thing.
The point of nerfing is to rebalance the game to make it fairer. They took away her vortex, her ability to punish -6 moves and her utility Ex Flip because they felt the tools were too strong. Well, now that that aspect of her game is gone, some people want Glow Kick to to be more useful. That's not wrong to ask for. It would help her poor metered midscreen damage and give some reward for throwing out a -51 EX move.

I say let EX Glow Kick combo from the first hit like it would the second hit.
 
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Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
hollywood is dead and burried, id like some zoning in Bralwer... id make it the new style and walk with it.. reguardless if its what a brawler does.. she needs it in alot of matchups. ie Liu Kang, shinnok.. kitana, and so on.. anyone with a fast mid, or a low profiling projectile.
No, the point of Brawler is an in-your-face rushdown/mixup heavy and hard hitting combos. That's the reason she does more damage, has a command grab and an advantageous restand. It's not meant to have a projectile, it's not how it was designed. Brawler struggles with zoning but hits hard once it gets in.

Hollywood isn't as strong but it just needs a new gameplan. It still has an excellent corner game, it still has EX Nut Punch. You can't just brainlessly end a combo mindscreen with B1~NP then safely vortex people to the corner anymore. Hollywood loyalists will just have to find a new way to play the variation.

And come on, is being destroyed by zoning even a thing in MKX? Zoning is weak, Cassie isn't helpless to zoners. Yeah she has to play differently but you can't keep her out forever.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
No, the point of Brawler is an in-your-face rushdown/mixup heavy and hard hitting combos. That's the reason she does more damage, has a command grab and an advantageous restand. It's not meant to have a projectile, it's not how it was designed. Brawler struggles with zoning but hits hard once it gets in.

And come on, is being destroyed by zoning even a thing in MKX? Zoning is weak, Cassie isn't helpless to zoners. Yeah she has to play differently but you can't keep her out forever.
how the hell is zoning not a thing in mkx.. Kitana, Liu Kang, HQT, Kano, Shinnok just come to mind.. and they are far from weak.... its just as much a guessing game as 50/50's, esp. when they have lows and mids.

and that restand is a little advantageous... not so advantageous that u can use any move you want. and if i remember right from the beta, only a few starters allow the connect.

also i think that command grab should be more like Kanos in cammando, can trade with a D4. hers gets low profiled.

im not saying she isnt stron once in, but getting in is the problem, esp. in certain matchups... Characters like
Liu force her to do things that are out of her favor. like Jump. with her jip.. oihh yeah thats bad... at least against a liu, who has instant air with mad recovery
 
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Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
how the hell is zoning not a thing in mkx.. Kitana, Liu Kang, HQT, Kano, Shinnok just come to mind.. and they are far from weak.... its just as much a guessing game as 50/50's, esp. when they have lows and mids.
I actually said is being destroyed by zoning a thing in MKX? I didn't say it's not a thing. I didn't say or imply that those characters are weak. You aren't patient enough against zoners, I can tell already just by your writing that you get easily frustrated with from it.

and that command grab is a little advantageous... not so advantageous that u can use any move you want. and if i remember right from the beta, only a few starters allow the connect.
I didn't say the command grab was advantageous. I said she had an advantageous restand which is F2,1+2. It's +1 on block meaning currently doing a flip is a frame trap and D3/1 will trade with 6 frame moves but will be beat by armour and backdashes (which can be read and punished by Cassie)

also i think that command grab should be more like Kanos in cammando, can trade with a D4. hers gets low profiled.
The reason her command grab has the properties that it does is because with all the many many ticks Cassie has, she can counter anybody jumping out of the command grab or ducking it or backdashing with the overhead takedown. But it loses to blocking and armour.

im not saying she isnt stron once in, but getting in is the problem, esp. in certain matchups... Characters like Liu force her to do things that are out of her favor. like Jump. with her jip.. oihh yeah thats bad... at least against a liu, who has instant air with mad recovery
No, that is you being out played. Nobody is forcing you to jump. You choose to. Cassie can walk and block. And once you're in B1 range, if Liu throws a fireball and you block it - he's really negative on block. It is your turn to push buttons and put on the pressure. And Cassies B1 has a lot of range, you shouldn't be having trouble with that. Walk him to the corner, it's where you want him.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
The point of nerfing is to rebalance the game to make it fairer. They took away her vortex, her ability to punish -6 moves and her utility Ex Flip because they felt the tools were too strong. Well, now that that aspect of her game is gone, some people want Glow Kick to to be more useful. That's not wrong to ask for. It would help her poor metered midscreen damage and give some reward for throwing out a -51 EX move.

I say let EX Glow Kick combo from the first hit like it would the second hit.
The whole point is that this WILL make it fairer.

You guys are comparing this change to the current state of the game, and its current line up.

Quan Lao Jax LK Cassie JC, these are the released top tier characters that have been nerfed, and Tremor + Tanya nerfs are still to come. We don't know exactly where this is going to leave Cassie, but rest assured she will be fine.




BTW she still has her vortex in the corner right? So for a bar she gets a better corner game than Grandmaster Sub, and gun shots are some of the best space control projectile in the game and it's a mix-up with B1, which if blocked is also a mix-up... And this part is to @ESG Jagged; so not only is she still a very strong character, Hollywood alone is still a very strong variation, and acting like shes unplayable "dead and buried" is just pure blatant downplay lol... at the very most, there will be more internal balance with her variations instead of Hollywood being the ONLY variation to see any play... although it will still probably be her best variation. And this isn't coming from someone who wants to see the character dead or doesn't plays her or something like that, I love her and now that she doesn't have that braindead armour anymore which is just bad game design she's probably going to become my main after the new patch not including DLC characters who I can't speak on yet, I think they were very fair with nerfing Cassie comparing her to the characters that are being nerfed and the characters that aren't , she is still top tier, and she does not need combo starting armor. Maybe enough launch for B1xxEnder at most but I don't think she should get more than that, and she most definitely does NOT need it to be her hardest hitting opener. My opinion.

This "dead and buried" shit is just over the top and makes us all look bad
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
I actually said is being destroyed by zoning a thing in MKX? I didn't say it's not a thing. I didn't say or imply that those characters are weak. You aren't patient enough against zoners, I can tell already just by your writing that you get easily frustrated with from it.
dead wrong , these assumptions you make of people you don't know might be the cause of so many of your false comments


I didn't say the command grab was advantageous.
where did that even come from? never talked about that.. so confused how you went from what i was talking about to this. I was talking about the F2 1+2 I said she had an advantageous restand which is F2,1+2. It's +1 on block meaning currently doing a flip is a frame trap and D3/1 will trade with 6 frame moves but will be beat by armour and backdashes (which can be read and punished by Cassie)
also if she does restand she can be knocked out of most her options with a simple D1 or D4 with alot of characters.. which is what i was saying, its not that advantageuos , nothing compared to the old Nutpuch restand.



The reason her command grab has the properties that it does is because with all the many many ticks Cassie has, she can counter anybody jumping out of the command grab or ducking it or backdashing with the overhead takedown. But it loses to blocking and armour.
still think it should have D4 covered


, if Liu throws a fireball and you block it - he's really negative on block. It is your turn to push buttons and put on the pressure. And Cassies B1 has a lot of range, you shouldn't be having trouble with that. Walk him to the corner, it's where you want him.
What world is liu not have mad recovery on full screen zoning.. if you block low fire ball, and you use one of the above options you described, welcome to another fire ball, this time it hits.. lets say you use stamina to get in quicker while blocking, Liu has plenty of options to over ride anything you do, and send you full screen again















@I Am The LK @I Am The LK ;) lol
 
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Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
The whole point is that this WILL make it fairer.

You guys are comparing this change to the current state of the game, and its current line up.

Quan Lao Jax LK Cassie JC, these are the released top tier characters that have been nerfed, and Tremor + Tanya nerfs are still to come. We don't know exactly where this is going to leave Cassie, but rest assured she will be fine.




BTW she still has her vortex in the corner right? So for a bar she gets a better corner game than Grandmaster Sub, and gun shots are some of the best space control projectile in the game and it's a mix-up with B1, which if blocked is also a mix-up.
I know it will make it fairer, but as far as balance I think it's fair to buff glow kick now that she won't have those strong tools. The reward/risk is way unbalanced with Ex Glow Kick currently. It would be fairer if you could combo from it, it would help her with midscreen damage in Spec Ops for example which has some of the worst midscreen damage in the game.

Cassie will lose the tools that put her in the top 6 discussion. Ex Glow Kick sucks currently, if they're rebalancing her then they might as well buff the bad things such as EX Glow Kick, 212 whiffing etc.

Yeah she should still have her corner vortex. Gun shots are over rated, they're good, but over rated - lots of recover and easily whiff punished but nobody has labbed that really other than Cassie players. The're also like -23 on block or something.

I mean, in the corner GM and HW both do big damage (Sub can do more than Cassie). But Sub Zero can safe armour break with a mixup (Cassie can't anymore) - I dno, we'll need to see once the patch is out how everything is.
 

I Am The LK

Here my battle cry (Meow)
The key thing that Ex Flip had in regards to armour breaking was that it's option select. You'd do like D3/Mixup~EX Flip and if the person woke up it would break the armour and launch them for a combo into another shitty situation for the opponent however if they didn't wakeup, you'd do a mixup or whatever cancelled into EX Flip and be safe. Doing it into EX Nutpunch would work, sure, but you're -23 if you guess wrong on them waking up and you don't launch them for a full combo. It's a tool but, meh, why would you do that when there's safer, better, options available?
YOU my girl are incorrect.