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She's fun but is she viable...

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
Hate to do this but ran sets in a room last night and Frost just doesn’t look like she can keep up. I watched NWM as well and seeing what players are doing vs what we can do with her made me for now anyway use her as a secondary. The dudes I played last night figured out how to fight her after a few matches to the point where i was losing out on damage and struggled to open anyone up. She can make a few things “safe” but gives up her turn a lot. Lack of a fast mid made things real hard when people got in my face too. She loses kinda bad up close.

And the hit box problems she has got me killed a lot more than I felt comfortable with. They really need to tweak her a bit. I’m beginning to feel like she’s going to struggle badly as time goes on.

I also didn’t realize how sluggish her movement and walk speed was until I picked scorpion lol
 

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
I’ll keep working her in the lab and casuals and swap to her in bracket when needed but with the types of flaws she has I’m not sure she’s a good go to right now.

The other thing I didn’t take into account fully before last night is her startup speed on attacks. She was getting beaten out a lot even if I changed my timing. The idea of the character is cool but the execution looks suspect
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
Hate to do this but ran sets in a room last night and Frost just doesn’t look like she can keep up. I watched NWM as well and seeing what players are doing vs what we can do with her made me for now anyway use her as a secondary. The dudes I played last night figured out how to fight her after a few matches to the point where i was losing out on damage and struggled to open anyone up. She can make a few things “safe” but gives up her turn a lot. Lack of a fast mid made things real hard when people got in my face too. She loses kinda bad up close.

And the hit box problems she has got me killed a lot more than I felt comfortable with. They really need to tweak her a bit. I’m beginning to feel like she’s going to struggle badly as time goes on.

I also didn’t realize how sluggish her movement and walk speed was until I picked scorpion lol
Its interesting you say this because I was playing a set yesterday and was using B22 to pressure into Spin or other stuff. My opponent started flawless blocking the second hit and punish me. Same with B32D1, he would flawless block the last hit. AS well as my wake ups. Consistently. It basically shut down her entire game plan lol

I started doing B2~DB2B and while that was working, it made the game very difficult. Also he was playing subzero so his slide was never consistently punished and his slide was used so often that he would get a 310 slide KB so easily.

Do you play on XBL? Lets do some sets. I find a good way I learn a character's strategies are with mirrors.
(Im asking you but anybody that would be down, add me!)
 

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
I’m on PS4 :(

And I was thinking the same thing but my hopes for her are diminishing. I truly feel she just needs some fixes. It’s like I see what they WANT to do with her but her tools almost don’t allow it to happen. Like I said I’m gonna keep trying things with her where I can but I can’t afford to use an “incomplete” character while competing.
 

projectzero00

nomnomnom
Hate to do this but ran sets in a room last night and Frost just doesn’t look like she can keep up. I watched NWM as well and seeing what players are doing vs what we can do with her made me for now anyway use her as a secondary. The dudes I played last night figured out how to fight her after a few matches to the point where i was losing out on damage and struggled to open anyone up. She can make a few things “safe” but gives up her turn a lot. Lack of a fast mid made things real hard when people got in my face too. She loses kinda bad up close.
And the hit box problems she has got me killed a lot more than I felt comfortable with. They really need to tweak her a bit. I’m beginning to feel like she’s going to struggle badly as time goes on.

I also didn’t realize how sluggish her movement and walk speed was until I picked scorpion lol
All this. I really enjoy playing her and as good as I've become, I just seem to lose to mediocre Scorpion players online constantly no matter how good I'm playing or how fast/accurate my reactions are. She does feel sluggish, slow, and is just unable to keep up when she fails to punish even a blocked teleport because of whiffed normals.
As much as I wanna main her, I feel like 1 week of constant training with her is just not paying off.
 

MK Led

Umbasa
Frost is totally fine and decent imo. Not sure why some people are struggling with her so much. Every character has some flaws and hers are very possible to play around imo.
 
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Xzyj

Noob
I've pretty much no-lifed this game since it came out and I've only played Frost. The TLDR here is that I strongly disagree with you, and consider her a very solid character as long as you're willing to adjust expectations and put in the work. She isn't potato and she's far from buddying up to anyone in MKX but as far as this version of the game stands I think she's good. That's subject to change as the game is still so new, but for now here's why I think your points are incorrect. Keep in mind that everything I'm about to say applies to her Ice Machine variation, as I haven't played Frost-Byte and don't intend to.

1. "Her lack of OH..." You deleted this, as you should have, but I'll take a second regardless because people have been saying this about soo many characters. You do not need an overhead starter to win a game. You do not need an overhead starter to be viable. Especially in a game that has universal overheads.

2. "Her punish damage output sucks" This is an actual weakness, but characters have weaknesses. Sometimes we have to punish with a D2 or Lunge when other characters get a full combo. Her punishes can be weird and DO require lab time. But it's okay. You're not meant to be a dangerous punishing character. Lab the punishes you're having trouble with. Also, as someone else pointed out, we get F2 man. It's a damn fullscreen AA and excellent whiff punishing tool. Frost has nutty whiff punish potential in general.

3. "Her Krushing Blows blow" I disagree strongly with this. You have a KB off of whiff-punishing something with your best string and Ice Machine has an easy KB after landing three MB Lunges, which you'll do in most games because the move is a combo ender and an effective whiff-punishing tool. She also gets TWO throw KBs. Meaning after your opponent fails to tech a throw, the next one is a 50/50 and they're losing big life if they guess wrong. Also D2 KB which is universal but still counts. Her Krushing Blows are fine especially when you compare them to some other cast members. This complaint just comes off as whiny.

4. "S1 and S3 range" They are very stubby normals. Frost has plenty of stubby normals. This is on you though. If you're getting bodied because you're whiffing strings that's entirely the fault of the player, especially if it's because you "read that the opponent is going to press buttons" like c'mon man. It would be great if these buttons were longer but it's not the character's fault you're just using them at the wrong times. It sucks but we just have to adjust.

5. "Her damage output midscreen sucks" This is another whiny complaint man. Play a high-damaging character then? Most combos are 300+ for a bar and her enders give her excellent corner carry or a hard knockdown. It'd be a little wild if a character with Frost's kit could hit for 400 MIDSCREEN. Relaaax friend.

6. "What's her style?" She's a space-control monster with incredible counter-zoning and one of the best projectiles in the game in Ice Machine's DB2. Most of her options are safe. Moving against her is incredibly dangerous. Everyone's gonna play her differently but that's an excellent foundation. Build off of that. Sorry she's not as easy to classify as 'zoner' or 'rushdown' but that's what makes her so fun.

7. "No good AA options" This is just wrong. S1, Ji1, S4 and D2 are all good anti-airs for different situations. She can easily convert off of most of her AAs too. I'm not saying she has the best AAs in the game but they're solid. Not a weakness at all imo.

The character does have flaws. She's far from perfect. Her pokes are ass (though they do have good range so we have that going for us) and its hard for her to stop some characters from mashing all over our shiny bits. Her up-close punish game is weak. Her mids leave a lot to be desired. Her post-D1 game is ass. But she still has so much going for her. F2 is crazy. Auger Lunge has great range and carries the opponent like crazy. DF2 is completely safe. Max range B2xxDB2B is actually nuts and some characters can't do a thing about it. Her counter-zoning is super effective. Her Fatal Blow is SO GOOD. Again, just adjust your expectations. Stop thinking of the things you want and start building an effective gameplan around all the things you have. To answer your question, yes, I think Frost is completely viable, especially if you have a secondary that can cover some of her more unfavorable match-ups.
Huge props to you for saying she has 2 throw krushing blows, i wouldn't have realised this ever, thought it's just 1 for either throw, basically you can get 600 damage in a match just by doing 2 throws at the right time, this is pretty sick
 
She has sooo many issues, and Im not even talking about competitive gameplay where people consistently flawless block shit like subzero f4 :DOGE

  • If you are too far away, b22 db4 (freeze) doesn't connect
  • Her main punish (s1) has sooo bad range it whiffs all the time, even for some "easy punishes" like scorpion teleport or subzero slide. You need to do a mini dash to hit it
  • F2 whiffs if opponent is crouch blocking, so it's completely unsafe. And It's just a poke, it doesn't lead to anything else...
  • Ice crown (bomb) has a terrible hitbox. It's not even a low
  • Not tournament moves are even worse. That core trap is a joke, you need to be standing in that ray like 3 seconds to get frozen. And let's not even mention core overload (most useless move in the game?)
  • Her zoning just sucks, and the shield only absorbs one hit, when the game if full of double projectiles that can easily break it. It feels useless in the current state (maybe make it unbreakable, reflect the projectile , or absorb it to gain some kind of buff)
  • b22 is pretty much her only viable starting string, and b32 occasionally when for some strange reason your enemy is not blocking low
As a cybersub player in mkx, honestly I wasnt expecting a t1 character, but this just feels unfair. Probably with devorah, the 2 worst characters by far
 

TheLewis

Noob
So I've been labbing her all week pretty intensely and I'm noticing some serious issues with her.
We've talked about her finicky bombs with their bad range but looking at other aspects than her special moves, here's what Im noticing:
  1. Her lack of OH ..... Deleted this point because its moot. There are other ways of opening people up than with an OH. Past Kindred was short-sighted here.
  2. Her Krushing Blows blow. Talking about the midscreen. With many characters doing a minimum around 40% dmg, some, like Raiden, even pulling off 50% off a KB, her midscreen options for D2 or B2212 KB lead to shit. It makes them almost not worth doing. Better to wait to be in the corner to get some significant dmg, but being in such a situation in a guaranteed so putting your eggs in that basket is a risk other characters dont have to worry about.
  3. S1 & S3 range & Punishing issues. Someone can pokes you and you block it. You predict that the opponent, despite having their poke blocked, will go into a string, so you throw out a fast S1 or S3 and they, of course come out first, but their range is so bad that they whiff, allowing the opponent's string to hit confirm u instead. Also certain punishes work in some situation and in others they dont. Im not talking about a situation where you need to punish Scorpion's teleport with S1 but Sub's slide with S4. Thats cool and part of the game. Im talking about have to figure out the input for situations like these:
    .. I dont think this was intentional by NRS.
  4. Her dmg output midscreen isnt great in Frost-Byte. Frost-Byte is limited in terms of combo extension. Ice Machine has the Burst and can consistently get from 270 to 320 dmg. Yes, you need to use meter but that's what its there for so that doesnt bother me.
  5. What's her style? ......As perfectly said by @Hendrixson :
  6. No good AA options. The only consistent AA is D2. Others, like D3 or S3 dont leed to significantly more dmg. This bothers me mainly for Frost-Byte because I throw a bomb and I read their Jump in but can only uppercut them. I can't set up another setup because they get up too fast and Im too far nor can I significantly punish their jump. With Ice-Machine, I feel it is less of an issue.
I still love the character & out of all the roster, shes the only one that interests me so I want to be wrong. If someone has found something, anything, especially in terms of punishing, I would love to know. I'm not saying I want all this to be buffed so she can become S-tier. Far from it. But give me something to strike fear in my opponent's heart. Give me something that wont make ppl do unsafe shit or poke out of turn for free.

But anyway, what do you guys think?
I agree with everything said here. Her s1 and s3 have serious hit box issues. Subs slide and ice ball are such strange punishes! I was forced to use 22 (which leads to nothing) to punish ice ball and i got so frustrated with trying to punish slide I was using raw reversals.

The crappy range and hit detection combined with a 16 frame mid (B1) as her fastest mid means zero counter poke and she has to rely on jump ins to utilize her frame traps. The only way your stopping someone like jax or geras with fast pokes and quick mids is risking a special move cancel off your d1 to keep them in check. But thats about it

As good as B22 is as your main footsie/engage besides F2, the KB just leads to corner carry or bomb setup depending on variation and as the game progresses everyone will flawless block the 2nd hit.

I would recommend fixing the hurt box on her s1 and s3, lessen the push back of both her KBs (B2212 and BF4 special) and shave a few frames off her B1. Nothing crazy, it doesnt have to drop to 9 frames. Give her 3 things: some way to counter poke, a reason to want to use KBs and a reliable punish.

I really like her design and shes fun but I dont think she can really compete in her current state.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
She has sooo many issues, and Im not even talking about competitive gameplay where people consistently flawless block shit like subzero f4 :DOGE

  • If you are too far away, b22 db4 (freeze) doesn't connect
  • Her main punish (s1) has sooo bad range it whiffs all the time, even for some "easy punishes" like scorpion teleport or subzero slide. You need to do a mini dash to hit it
  • F2 whiffs if opponent is crouch blocking, so it's completely unsafe. And It's just a poke, it doesn't lead to anything else...
  • Ice crown (bomb) has a terrible hitbox. It's not even a low
  • Not tournament moves are even worse. That core trap is a joke, you need to be standing in that ray like 3 seconds to get frozen. And let's not even mention core overload (most useless move in the game?)
  • Her zoning just sucks, and the shield only absorbs one hit, when the game if full of double projectiles that can easily break it. It feels useless in the current state (maybe make it unbreakable, reflect the projectile , or absorb it to gain some kind of buff)
  • b22 is pretty much her only viable starting string, and b32 occasionally when for some strange reason your enemy is not blocking low
As a cybersub player in mkx, honestly I wasnt expecting a t1 character, but this just feels unfair. Probably with devorah, the 2 worst characters by far
I was hoping she would be a little bit better as well and like you, I didnt have S tier expectations since I played CSZ in MKX.
I agree with everything you said. I think her Zoning can be good as long as the opponent doesnt have the 2 projectiles.
Her F2 is like CSZ's F2 in MKX so I dont mind it at all. But yea the rest isnt great and honestly, the only thing I wish they changed was her S1 range to make punishing more consistent
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
I agree with everything said here. Her s1 and s3 have serious hit box issues. Subs slide and ice ball are such strange punishes! I was forced to use 22 (which leads to nothing) to punish ice ball and i got so frustrated with trying to punish slide I was using raw reversals.
Its fucked up because you can't use just one move to punish everything. So, against sub-zero, I found that the best way to punish his slide is with a B1 because although it is 16f, Subzero's slide is -20f. B3 is also 16f but you don't get as much damage. So you punish with B12~DB4(amp) > JiP > B32D1 > B12 > BF4
As for his iceball, I use 2~DB4(amp) > JiP > B32D1 > B12 > BF4 (271 dmg) - nothing else works consistently.
But yea it's annoying because it really depends on the special move of each character and its associated pushback.

The crappy range and hit detection combined with a 16 frame mid (B1) as her fastest mid means zero counter poke and she has to rely on jump ins to utilize her frame traps. The only way your stopping someone like jax or geras with fast pokes and quick mids is risking a special move cancel off your d1 to keep them in check. But thats about it
So I read, still gotta test it out, that if you hit confirm a poke, you should be able to land a B1 if the opponent is trying to poke or start a string. On paper it makes sense since D1 confirmed gives a 10f advantage and B1 is 16f so unless your opponent has a 6f startup or poke, they have no choice but block. I will test this tonight.


I would recommend fixing the hurt box on her s1 and s3, lessen the push back of both her KBs (B2212 and BF4 special) and shave a few frames off her B1. Nothing crazy, it doesnt have to drop to 9 frames. Give her 3 things: some way to counter poke, a reason to want to use KBs and a reliable punish.
I get the second hit of B22 flawless blocked constantly. So Ill either go into her Spin (DF2) because the multiple hits destroy the flawless block armor or I'll do B2~DB2B, which will get them since they release block after the first hit to flawless block the second. And when they do, my projectile (DB2B), knocks them down.
 
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TheLewis

Noob
Its fucked up because you can't use just one move to punish everything. So, against sub-zero, I found that the best way to punish his slide is with a B1 because although it is 16f, Subzero's slide is -20f. B3 is also 16f but you don't get as much damage. So you punish with B12~DB4(amp) > JiP > B32D1 > B12 > BF4
As for his iceball, I use 2~DB4(amp) > JiP > B32D1 > B12 > BF4 (271 dmg) - nothing else works consistently.
But yea it's annoying because it really depends on the special move of each character and its associated pushback.



So I read, still gotta test it out, that if you hit confirm a poke, you should be able to land a B1 if the opponent is trying to poke or start a string. On paper it makes sense since D1 confirmed gives a 10f advantage and B1 is 16f so unless your opponent has a 6f startup or poke, they have no choice but block. I will test this tonight.

As good as B22 is as your main footsie/engage besides F2, the KB just leads to corner carry or bomb setup depending on variation and as the game progresses everyone will flawless block the 2nd hit.



I get the second hit of B22 flawless blocked constantly. So Ill either go into her Spin (DF2) because the multiple hits destroy the flawless block armor or I'll do B2~DB2B, which will get them since they release block after the first hit to flawless block the second. And when they do, my projectile (DB2B), knocks them down.
The only problem with d1 hit confirm into b1 is that online you lose a few frames so even frame perfect buttons can loose to a counter 7 frame d1. Punishing SZ slide with b1 and b3 was easy in practice but then I go online and I was trading with his d1. Thays why I suggested to shave just a few frames off her b1 (16 to 14/13).

I dont think she is the weakest in the game I just think her slow buttons and wonky punishes create some frustration and her KBs dont feel as impactful and rewarding as geras with db1 for +30% or mb slide for +30% or baraka for full combos with 122. No one wants to play a character that creates frustration and can feel unrewarding.
 

MK Led

Umbasa
her KBs dont feel as impactful and rewarding as geras with db1 for +30% or mb slide for +30% or baraka for full combos with 122. No one wants to play a character that creates frustration and can feel unrewarding.
I think she gets plenty off her d2 and (BOTH) throw KBs, but the b2212 kb is pretty pathetic honestly. bf4 in Var2 is ok but usually just amounts to a small amount of extra damage in a combo.

Separately to that, it's a shame most characters have the condition on their throw KBs being the opponent having teched the previous throw incorrectly. Just doesn't feel rewarding to get them usually, basically just a 50/50. I know Jax gets his with full heat on his arms which is way more interesting to play around imo.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
I think she gets plenty off her d2 and (BOTH) throw KBs, but the b2212 kb is pretty pathetic honestly. bf4 in Var2 is ok but usually just amounts to a small amount of extra damage in a combo.

Corner D2 can lead to 428 dmg with D2(KB) > 4~DB4(amp) > Neutral jump kick > 13~DF2(amp)

But midscreen, other than the pathetic D2(KB) > B12~BF4(auger), not much else can be done. Unless you have a better combo, all her KBs combos midscreen do shit damage and, on their own, are just as bad (compared to other characters that get 330 with a raw KB)
 

Xzyj

Noob
Corner D2 can lead to 428 dmg with D2(KB) > 4~DB4(amp) > Neutral jump kick > 13~DF2(amp)

But midscreen, other than the pathetic D2(KB) > B12~BF4(auger), not much else can be done. Unless you have a better combo, all her KBs combos midscreen do shit damage and, on their own, are just as bad (compared to other characters that get 330 with a raw KB)
you can do up to 400 with midscreen D2 KB

D2 KB > B3~DB4(amp) > jump over kick > 13~BF4

check the vid i posted in Ice machine variation combo thread, some combos are even further improved by now, there's also corner D2 450dmg combo
 

JSF

Waiting for Injustice 3
I was gonna come in here and explain but it looks like it’s been said a few times already. Frost is bad. She doesn’t have the tools over characters do. No good damage no good pressure no mixups no good krushing blows etc
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
you can do up to 400 with midscreen D2 KB

D2 KB > B3~DB4(amp) > jump over kick > 13~BF4

check the vid i posted in Ice machine variation combo thread, some combos are even further improved by now, there's also corner D2 450dmg combo
Holy shit ok I gotta practice this. When you say "jump over kick", Im guessing you mean you cross jump them at that weird angle that makes your character face the same direction until they land?
 

Xzyj

Noob
Holy shit ok I gotta practice this. When you say "jump over kick", Im guessing you mean you cross jump them at that weird angle that makes your character face the same direction until they land?
Exactly. Check the vid for better understanding of those combos though, there's a lot of improvements for her damage over what people discovered previously
Also corner bomb setup for 1st variation is nasty AF, it's very tight link but very powerful imo, people downplay her a lot instead of finding new stuff, even though whiff issues should be adressed for sure.

She has some very good tools people tend to overlook, and her midscreen control is really strong, also having KB on both throws is disgusting and makes you question your decisions upclose so much more since eating 300 dmg is never fun off of random 50/50 guess, the only big problem for her atm imo is characters that have very good pokes (like geras for example) where she struggles by not having faster than i16 mid/low string, but even then you can resort to poke~df2 if they just want to mash out of your +10 or poke them multiple times until they stop mashing
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
Exactly. Check the vid for better understanding of those combos though, there's a lot of improvements for her damage over what people discovered previously
Yea for sure. Although Im fairly certain that B2212(KB) midscreen is still and will always be shit lol They are way to far to follow it up with anything but B2~Augerlunge

Also corner bomb setup for 1st variation is nasty AF, it's very tight link but very powerful imo, people downplay her a lot instead of finding new stuff, even though whiff issues should be adressed for sure.
Im sure her Frost-byte variation has some hidden tech but honestly, until they fix the hitbox of her bombs, its far too inconsistent and severe for me to even enjoy playing this variation. Especially since Im used to the efficient bomb setups of MKX CSZ.

She has some very good tools people tend to overlook, and her midscreen control is really strong, also having KB on both throws is disgusting and makes you question your decisions upclose so much more since eating 300 dmg is never fun off of random 50/50 guess, the only big problem for her atm imo is characters that have very good pokes (like geras for example) where she struggles by not having faster than i16 mid/low string, but even then you can resort to poke~df2 if they just want to mash out of your +10 or poke them multiple times until they stop mashing
Her midscreen space control really is top notch. Her ability to keep people in the corner and bait out wakes is amazing. But like you said, her biggest problem are her slow mids. You can hit confirm a D1 and go into B1 (16f) but the link is very tight and online, the delay will make you miss often.

My biggest annoyance right now is not being able to punish someone who pokes constantly. I revert to just poking back or grabbing. You can block Geras’ D1 and he ends up at -4 but since his D1 is 6f, his next D1 poke is 10f. Frost has nothing to deal with this. Compared to Liu Kang who can do a 9f mid with F4 and blow Geras up. And Geras is an exception with his ridiculously fast pokes. Most, who have a 7f poke, my liu kang stops them dead in their tracks. Frost can do fuck all. They need to increase the speed of one of her mids and fix her S1 and S3 range for them to be used as punishes like everyone else in the game.
 

Xzyj

Noob
Yea for sure. Although Im fairly certain that B2212(KB) midscreen is still and will always be shit lol They are way to far to follow it up with anything but B2~Augerlunge

Her midscreen space control really is top notch. Her ability to keep people in the corner and bait out wakes is amazing. But like you said, her biggest problem are her slow mids. You can hit confirm a D1 and go into B1 (16f) but the link is very tight and online, the delay will make you miss often.

My biggest annoyance right now is not being able to punish someone who pokes constantly. I revert to just poking back or grabbing. You can block Geras’ D1 and he ends up at -4 but since his D1 is 6f, his next D1 poke is 10f. Frost has nothing to deal with this. Compared to Liu Kang who can do a 9f mid with F4 and blow Geras up. And Geras is an exception with his ridiculously fast pokes. Most, who have a 7f poke, my liu kang stops them dead in their tracks. Frost can do fuck all. They need to increase the speed of one of her mids and fix her S1 and S3 range for them to be used as punishes like everyone else in the game.
You can follow up B2212 KB with forward full dash into 13 lunge for decent damage, but yes, i couldn't find more, i think the way to utilize this KB to maximum potential is to punish aerial opponents on CH since you get consistent launch from KB and i think this KB into super might be more damage than usual kombo into super if you wish to keep it unbreakable + it does a little more damage in the corner which is nice too

And i think she's intended to be weakish upclose so i don't think they should necessarily buff speed of her mids for you to have guaranteed answers, as i said you have some options they just aren't as good as some other chars options, but it's fine

as for S1 and S3, dashing into punishing with them seems to be pretty consistent, and it seems like an overall theme of the game that you need to dash for a lot of punishes anyway (at least with her), you also get optimal damage from 13 punish so it's worth it for sure
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
And i think she's intended to be weakish upclose so i don't think they should necessarily buff speed of her mids for you to have guaranteed answers, as i said you have some options they just aren't as good as some other chars options, but it's fine
Your only options though are to poke back or grab right?

as for S1 and S3, dashing into punishing with them seems to be pretty consistent, and it seems like an overall theme of the game that you need to dash for a lot of punishes anyway (at least with her), you also get optimal damage from 13 punish so it's worth it for sure
Really? So if I block a scorpion teleport, which is -20 (-14 if amp), I should have enough time to dash forward and punish with 1,3? How many frames does the dash take because 13 comes out in 7f so I have 13f left to dash?

The fact that you say “pretty consistent” bothers me though because it should be consistent. All other characters don’t need to dash forward to punish something as simple as SubZero’s iceball or scorpion’s teleport, but Frost has to dash and it becomes “pretty consistent”… Im not a fan of this at all.
 

Xzyj

Noob
well i only say "pretty consistent" because i haven't had enough practice against certain moves, but when you get used to blocking specific moves you get it consistenly, and i'm not sure how much frames dash takes exactly i would assume somewhere around 6-7 if you're going for dash punish

poke/grab/hop overhead in some cases, or poke+df2 as a mixup if they get hit by the poke and try to neutral duck or poke you back df2 will hit them
oh and i suppose poke into walking back might be decent option at some ranges too after which you can check whiff with mid into punish if you clipped them
 

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Premium Supporter
Outside of bug/glitch stuff I think frost is weak, but only because of her frames. Her toolkit is VERY strong for neutral. F2 is fantastic, b22 is great. Just compared to the other strong neutral characters her frames are all worse across the board in terms of being slower.

She gets her numbers tweaked up, she becomes much better. Not every character needs to be a mixup master. She just needs to be more in line with someone like Kabal, devastating buttons & neutral.
 

projectzero00

nomnomnom
The fact that you say “pretty consistent” bothers me though because it should be consistent. All other characters don’t need to dash forward to punish something as simple as SubZero’s iceball or scorpion’s teleport, but Frost has to dash and it becomes “pretty consistent”… Im not a fan of this at all.
This right here. People seem to try and find ways around her inconsistencies and weaknesses but it shouldn't be like that. If other characters can punish consistently, their hitbox is great, they got quick, safe options, etc, so should she! I've been playing Frost for 2 weeks now and I still struggle to get get a W online, I've picked up Noob, Erron, Kitana for a couple of days and I immediately found it 10 times easier to win a match.