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Shao Kahn hitbox problems

Endeezdafreak

Big boi Shao <3
Hello everyone,


Today at the #MK11_SHA discord we discovered that Shao Kahn has all kinds of issues with attacks whiffing on block. See below for a list of everything that whiffs, when it shouldn't.

S1: Whiffs on entire kast crouch blocking.
S2: Whiffs on all female crouch blocking and Noob Saibot.
S4: Whiffs entirely on Noob Saibot crouch blocking and on all females at max S4 range. Up close it hits all females.
F2: Whiffs on all females and Noob crouch blocking. Whiffs on every character at max F2 range.

@16 Bit could you please have a look at this?

Edit: discovered S2 whiffs on more characters crouch blocking: Erron Black, Kollector, Johnny Cage and the list goes on.
 
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Pandamoniumz

Don't Listen, Save Money
This is actually a gigantic problem. On top of that, because of the hitboxes / Shao's height, he has insane trouble or even in some cases can't jail some of the cast. From my very basic testing, hitting d1s and d3s and trying to jail with a standing normal whiffs. You literally can't formulate offense the way the game want's you to with his height and hitboxes.
 
lots of S1 whiff on crouch blocking. it seems there's a High (whiffs on crouching or crouch blocking) a High/Mid (whiffs on crouching but hits on crouch blocking), Mid, Low, and Overhead hit all states.
 

Pandamoniumz

Don't Listen, Save Money
lots of S1 whiff on crouch blocking. it seems there's a High (whiffs on crouching or crouch blocking) a High/Mid (whiffs on crouching but hits on crouch blocking), Mid, Low, and Overhead hit all states.
Yea I think this is overall design, but shaos high/mid (think this is 2 for everyone?) whiffs on like half the cast. Also his on hit jailing options are even more picky.
 

stokedAF

casual kahnage
I thought it was supposed to whiff because it’s high lmao. Damn I still have a lot to learn. Maybe I didn’t realize it because I don’t play anyone else.
 
This is actually a gigantic problem. On top of that, because of the hitboxes / Shao's height, he has insane trouble or even in some cases can't jail some of the cast. From my very basic testing, hitting d1s and d3s and trying to jail with a standing normal whiffs. You literally can't formulate offense the way the game want's you to with his height and hitboxes.
Kotal has the same problem. After D1, S1 whiffs even if it times perfectly and even S2 whiffs on smaller characters.
Maybe it is intended (Kahn brothers whiff :D) haha.
 
This is actually a gigantic problem. On top of that, because of the hitboxes / Shao's height, he has insane trouble or even in some cases can't jail some of the cast. From my very basic testing, hitting d1s and d3s and trying to jail with a standing normal whiffs. You literally can't formulate offense the way the game want's you to with his height and hitboxes.
Perhaps I'm mistaken since I'm on pre-patch PC version, but isn't this issue with jailing just because the hit advantage of d1/d3 is less than the startup of any of his standing normals, even his s1? This game seems to not include the first active frame in startup, so +9 into 9f startup normal isn't enough advantage to jail. Jailing works fine if you use something with more hit advantage like s1, so I don't think it's a hitbox issue.

EDIT: Never mind somewhat, I see what you mean, I think. Even if the opponent tries to just do standing attacks after getting hit by d1, the bend-over-in-pain animation from the d1 can dodge under the followup s1, though certain things like blocking or jumping can change the animation enough to get hit by the s1. Some characters holding standing block still manage to avoid it anyway. Seems to be very character/animation dependent with how far down the hit animation sends them and how quickly their next animation moves them back up.
 
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Pandamoniumz

Don't Listen, Save Money
Perhaps I'm mistaken since I'm on pre-patch PC version, but isn't this issue with jailing just because the hit advantage of d1/d3 is less than the startup of any of his standing normals, even his s1? This game seems to not include the first active frame in startup, so +9 into 9f startup normal isn't enough advantage to jail. Jailing works fine if you use something with more hit advantage like s1, so I don't think it's a hitbox issue.
Ah the first frame thing I guess explains it. Pretty wack then to not have any crouching pokes you can jail into a high normal though, less options during d1 poke wars.
 
Ah the first frame thing I guess explains it. Pretty wack then to not have any crouching pokes you can jail into a high normal though, less options during d1 poke wars.
No, I apologize, you're kinda right. Something is definitely wack with the hitboxes even if they stand, though numerically they should still be allowed to crouch unless I'm mistaken about the frame data. See the edit.

EDIT again: Actually, on second thought, I've only been testing whether startup includes active frames by testing just-frame punishes. It's possible that it just takes a frame to let go of block unless you reversal. Is that how it worked previously in MK?

EDIT 2: Yeah, maybe startup does include first active frame. Found Kung Lao s3 is +8 and jails into 8f startup s2. Probably just takes a frame to stop blocking then? There's so much animation jank in this game, it's hard to tell either way. Think you're right though, Shao's +9 d1 should jail into 9f startup s1 numerically.

EDIT 3: Found a tweet by Dizzy saying the game doesn't include the first active frame in startup, so that's that. Additionally, Shao Kahn s1 has been updated to be +10, which implies to me they did intend for it to jail into s1.
 
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Pandamoniumz

Don't Listen, Save Money
No, I apologize, you're kinda right. Something is definitely wack with the hitboxes even if they stand, though numerically they should still be allowed to crouch unless I'm mistaken about the frame data. See the edit.

EDIT again: Actually, on second thought, I've only been testing whether startup includes active frames by testing just-frame punishes. It's possible that it just takes a frame to let go of block unless you reversal. Is that how it worked previously in MK?

EDIT 2: Yeah, maybe startup does include first active frame. Found Kung Lao s3 is +8 and jails into 8f startup s2. Probably just takes a frame to stop blocking then? There's so much animation jank in this game, it's hard to tell either way. Think you're right though, Shao's +9 d1 should jail into 9f startup s1 numerically.
Yea its all a bit of a mess. I hope the first pass they do on this game cleans up a lot of these super weird interactions.