Shao Kahn Discussion Thread

[NotLiuKang]

I fought this Shao last year. Really good Shao. I've gotten a lot better since but he'd still kick my ass today

 

[Cobainevermind87]

Not sure if this is known already so apologies if it is, but after the hammer lunge it's possible to link a b3 into microdash f2~shoulder charge. Long story short, a s14 punish can net you 36% for one bar midscreen now.

It's pretty tight though, it's important to hit the b3 at the earliest frame you can.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

FWIW, dash b3 dash b2 is easier and does more damage.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

FWIW, dash b3 dash b2 is easier and does more damage.

Interesting, I could never get the b2 to reach

Edit: Good call man, got it after a few more tries. So 37% for one bar. Pretty damn good.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Yeah, you have more options vs regular-sized males, but only a very specific route vs someone smaller (like Jacqui). But after getting used to landing it on her, you'd imagine it to be a lot easier on anyone bigger.

 

[deathstroke187]

in you guys opinion is shao really better ? or barely ?

 

[Slymind]

Is Shao Kahn in the game now?

 

[Cobainevermind87]

Waiting for true Shao mains to weigh in....

I only started messing with him about two weeks ago

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

It's the exact same Shao, just with a better source of meterless dmg... I don't think there is much to say.

 

[NoCharge]

He has fullscreen combos now.

 

[GLoRToR]

Just here to say, happy for you guys.
He needed the buffs. I want to be afraid of Shao.

 

[DarksydeDash]

D4 hammer lunge is hilarious.

Hammer lunge in general is such a good move as long as you mix up the timing with it during a string, especially ones that have gaps because you can throw off their flawless block timing. The +1 with pushback is legit pressure tool in the corner and outside its a great neutral reset.

 

[Marinjuana]

What if I told you Shao had a mostly safe, fullscreen overhead launcher that can be made plus with meter?

I think they showed him love in two of his problem areas.

1. He's a punishing character who couldn't do any damage meterlessly on a common punish situation. Now you will always eat damage or have to come off breakaway.

2. His pressure was bad and adding reward/safety to lunge as well as buffs to the low hammer and F34 helps.

 

[Ashesfall]

1. He's a punishing character

One of his biggest issue imo, is that he is actually a bad punisher but a heavy hitter.
(Its kinda fitting his role tho)
Why bad? Because he is the only fighter in the entire roster with a 9frame combo starter.
(I don't count d1 as a serious "punish")

Some have an 8 frame and some even an 7 frame starter.
So he can't punish a lot of stuff other fighters can and that on high level is a huge factor.
(and not just punish but also interrupt)

His new meterburn after his hammerjump is really nice, from -19 to +1.
While his hammerjump was around +50 on hit (pre patch), it was for me a way to do his taunt.
(I use taunt in my loadout because Shao without it, loses too much identity to me.)
I don't know how much plus it is now, it could make the taunt setup even safer if not safe, of course you lose the combo damage but it's an extra option. (His KB f34L1 is nice.)

People now have to use meter to punish f34 is also really nice.
(and its not just meter they have to use, obviously u2 combos do less damage than a real punish does. As it was -12. Ironically, its now -9 and all can punish it still, except for Shao Kahn in a mirror.)
I have a steam friend who flawless blocked his f34 like 90% of the time (annoying lol)
So I had to mix f3 into shoulder, which did work really well but of course super risky

For me, Shao Kahn is the classic "high risk high reward" character and a lot of high level players don't like that arctype.

Can't wait to test him out myself.
I wonder how strict his b3 against smalls after his hammerjump is.
(edit: especially if it hits barely, like on a far jump)

 

[Ashesfall]

random post:

I just got reminded, I would love to see his f34L1 grab to be a brutal.
(Man I really hope this game is not done. Never had as much fun to play MK since MK2.
MK9 and X had too much "crazy" stuff that pulled me away.)

Script:
First time he smashes his opponent on his neck, he breaks the spine, followed by a nasty bone breaking sound and a long death scream.
The next scene he pulls his body into 2 parts with full force, and while he does it, he throws the upper and the lower body to the side, like trash.

"Brutality - I win!"

--- EDIT:
MK2 in MK11 with one of the nicest details I have seen in a long.
If you play as Shao Kahn, he is not sitting on his throne, in the old MK2 background.

I kinda miss a stage with a hyped crowd in MK11, cheering for all the blood that's spilled.
(Imagine if you play as Shao Kahn, the crowd cheering (in awe) his name randomly.)

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I wasn't going to quote someone, but just so people don't get the wrong idea...

What if I told you Shao had a mostly safe, fullscreen overhead launcher that can be made plus with meter?

You mean the launcher that gets clipped by almost every projectile, can be reacted to with any antiair for a juggle combo / avoided with a jump for a jump-in punish, and whose amp is flawless blockable?

1. He's a punishing character who couldn't do any damage meterlessly on a common punish situation

He still cannot, because his fastest punisher is 9 frames...

buffs to the low hammer and F34 helps.

Low hammer is still useless for stuff that isn't a restand - every string into it (except F21) can be jumped out of / flawless block it / interrupt it, and it's unsafe on block so you'd think you have to amp, but the amp can be similarly jumped / flawless blocked / interrupted.

F34 is still an inherently unsafe mid string with a flawless block gap (any now cancellable special move still gets interrupted by even the slowest U2), in a game where other people have faster, safe, gapless mid strings.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I don't know how much plus it is now, it could make the taunt setup even safer if not safe, of course you lose the combo damage but it's an extra option. (His KB f34L1 is nice.)

Lunge leaves you +60. Only give up on the meterless dmg if you read that they're going to break.

I wonder how strict his b3 against smalls after his hammerjump is.

As noted above, it gets very strict. You need to get used to always doing dash b3. And if the lunge hit from far away, dash b3 won't reach smaller characters, and neither does shoulder charge.

 

[Marinjuana]

You mean the launcher that gets clipped by almost every projectile, can be reacted to with any antiair for a juggle combo / avoided with a jump for a jump-in punish, and whose amp is flawless blockable?

Humorless bro

He still cannot, because his fastest punisher is 9 frames...


Low hammer is still useless for stuff that isn't a restand - every string into it (except F21) can be jumped out of / flawless block it / interrupt it, and it's unsafe on block so you'd think you have to amp, but the amp can be similarly jumped / flawless blocked / interrupted.

F34 is still an inherently unsafe mid string with a flawless block gap (any now cancellable special move still gets interrupted by even the slowest U2), in a game where other people have faster, safe, gapless mid strings.

Yeah and he does like top 3 damage. Buffs to to F34 and the Low Hammer help

 

[Marinjuana]

Gimme that meaty hammer lunge

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Lunge has a lot of range, so you can usually halt outside of d1 poke distance anyway... But meaty lunge definitely has potential (besides being easy to flawless block, so once again, you want them to be out of meter first).

You need 20+ advantage to get the Lunge off without interruption/neutral jump punish. From regular strings you get that from f24, 44, f212, 212, 23. If you can get both hits of Up Hammer to connect in a combo, it works without a terrible loss in damage... but then you'd be slotting Up Hammer.

f24 and 44 have actual merits to use by themselves but also gaps, so... you could use f24 vs meterless people with 8f/short jabs (because flawless block still leaves you at -8 an arm's length away), and 44 vs meterless anyone. Before, you wouldn't get much from them hitting, but now it at least gives you 17.50 chip from meaty Lunge, and maybe a meterless nigh-300 if they try to press buttons.

 

[MadPropz101]

What's the point of Shao's s1 being +4 on block when it whiffs on crouch blocking opponents?! Wtf is NRS smoking?

 

[NeroOps]

What's the point of Shao's s1 being +4 on block when it whiffs on crouch blocking opponents?! Wtf is NRS smoking?

So you can jail into it after a d4 in corner on hit and keep pressure.
Depending on the opponents collision box size and movement you can hit a crouch blocking opponent but yes the opponent ducking or d2 kb is the risk you choose to endure if they read the s1 coming afterwards.
Shao is essentially a high risk high reward character.
If you're afraid to take more than needed risks then he's likely not for you.

 

[DixieFlatline78]

He who lives by Raw Shoulder Charge shall surely die by Raw Shoulder Charge

 

[MadPropz101]

So you can jail into it after a d4 in corner on hit and keep pressure.
Depending on the opponents collision box size and movement you can hit a crouch blocking opponent but yes the opponent ducking or d2 kb is the risk you choose to endure if they read the s1 coming afterwards.
Shao is essentially a high risk high reward character.
If you're afraid to take more than needed risks then he's likely not for you.

It's still a stupid design choice and inconsistency that is typical for NRS. High's are supposed to hit crouch blocking opponents, period.

 

[NeroOps]

It's still a stupid design choice and inconsistency that is typical for NRS. High's are supposed to hit crouch blocking opponents, period.

Highs aren't meant to hit crouching opponents and the only reason some high attacks hit crouching opponents is because the characters collision box is lowered by the size of the character.
Only mids, lows, and overheads are meant to hit crouching opponents.
You'll never understand why the design choice of how a character plays unless you work for nrs.
When i first started playing Shao on released i questioned how he played because he seemed incomplete compared to other characters.
I felt similar feeling with Laura when sfv was released as she felt incomplete.
That's the devs decision based on how they want to make the characters in the game.
You either accept how they play or play someone else or choose to complain about something you don't agree with and hope the devs listen and change what you don't agree with.