Shao Kahn Discussion Thread

[villainous monk]

Am I missing something or is True Kahn variation still in the relatively unviable state it was in prior to the update?

He seems fine to me. In general he still needs help overall but his restands make him more scary in the corner.

 

[Evil Canadian]

I don't think its worthwhile simply cause while the restand obviously is plus now(versus it was punishable before) its only +7, so in reality all you can really enforce on hit is a d1 check versus something real. Shao gets real big boy damage in the corner now and you gotta sacrifice a fair bit for the restand, and the restand pressure isn't really worthwhile imo.

V1 or V3 way to go now, and abusing b3 at max range is the future cause a large chunk of the cast can't punish it.

 

[z Ruin z]

Looking forward to trying V3 a good bit. Considering how often skewered is used as a combo extender/ender in this variation, guaranteed to be breaking armor a lot.

 

[Wigy]

I don't think its worthwhile simply cause while the restand obviously is plus now(versus it was punishable before) its only +7, so in reality all you can really enforce on hit is a d1 check versus something real. Shao gets real big boy damage in the corner now and you gotta sacrifice a fair bit for the restand, and the restand pressure isn't really worthwhile imo.

V1 or V3 way to go now, and abusing b3 at max range is the future cause a large chunk of the cast can't punish it.

why cant you enforce it with f3?

also yeah that b3 at max range is annoying as hell. Hate single hit moves that have fast punishes. Especially ones that leave you long range.

 

[NeroOps]

I don't think its worthwhile simply cause while the restand obviously is plus now(versus it was punishable before) its only +7, so in reality all you can really enforce on hit is a d1 check versus something real. Shao gets real big boy damage in the corner now and you gotta sacrifice a fair bit for the restand, and the restand pressure isn't really worthwhile imo.

V1 or V3 way to go now, and abusing b3 at max range is the future cause a large chunk of the cast can't punish it.

You enforce a d1 if the opponent tries to mash when shao is plus on hit.
You force the opponent to respect the +7 restand so you can do a string afterwards.
How is checking the opponent when mashing to keep control in the corner not worthwhile?

Besides that i don't know why y'all saying his v3 is the best when all they gave skewered is a decent armor breaking feature which you still have to perform on a read. Everything else in that variation is the same. Best to worse v2,v1,v3 in that order it hasn't changed.

 

[Evil Canadian]

How is checking the opponent when mashing to keep control in the corner not worthwhile?

cause compared to v3 you are giving up 10% damage, its easy for v3 to get a bit over 40% in the corner for 1 bar.
a simple d1 check isn't worth the loss of damage that extreme.

v3 has become the best variation overall now don't confuse it. The armour break + screen carry + corner damage makes it a winner. Its the only variation now with 3 worthwhile moves.

 

[villainous monk]

cause compared to v3 you are giving up 10% damage, its easy for v3 to get a bit over 40% in the corner for 1 bar.
a simple d1 check isn't worth the loss of damage that extreme.

v3 has become the best variation overall now don't confuse it. The armour break + screen carry + corner damage makes it a winner. Its the only variation now with 3 worthwhile moves.

I don't think it's the best variation over the other two but it's most definitely has way more potential than before with the db3 armour break. Other than that I see no reason to pick it.

Besides the f3 4 and B3 universal buffs I'm hard pressed to see what else it offers that the other two variations can't do.

In the other two you just have to make the read for the armour break which is something we'll get used too.

You can get over 40% in all his variations for one bar now. I think it's still v2>v1>v3 Realm Destroyer is more gimmicky to use vs the other two.

He still needs more work. For a boss character and dlc he's very honest and straight forward compared to the rest of the cast who have more dirt and options than Kahn himself.

 

[DixieFlatline78]

V3 is definitely looking good but the Shoulder Charge/Scum Grab combination is still very worth having. With Shoulder it's a useful punish tool and more rewarding positioning-wise to drop two bars on. Shao has a 9-frame U2 with large hitbox and I think hes gonna start relying on Flawless Blocking more in the long run so being able to choose which side you want them to be on will be very useful for regaining momentum. The oki on Annihilation is nice to have too.

I think it's mostly up to preference at this point which one you want to use but there will definitely be matchups where V3 wont be quite as effective

 

[Popegina]

Does Shao Kahn's Scum Grab work against Sheeva's unblockable jump stomp move? I tried labbing it for a bit, but was unsuccessful. However, I messed up the input one time and was able to counter/punish (what's the difference?) that move with a simple punch, but that seems riskier than just dashing away. The fact that her move makes the opposing character switch the direction they're facing right before she lands on top throws me off

 

[DixieFlatline78]

Does Shao Kahn's Gotcha Grab work against Sheeva's unblockable jump stomp move? I tried labbing it for a bit, but was unsuccessful. However, I messed up the input one time and was able to counter/punish (what's the difference?) that move with a simple punch, but that seems riskier than just dashing away. The fact that her move makes the opposing character switch the direction they're facing right before she lands on top throws me off

The timings probably pretty hard to get it consistent. His D2 hits high though so if you time it with the screen shift you should hit her easily and convert off it

 

[wizgui]

I'm learning Shao Kahn, can someone give me some tips, for example which attacks use, which variations and etc...

 

[Amios]

I'm learning Shao Kahn, can someone give me some tips, for example which attacks use, which variations and etc...

V3 is currently the one I am using. You can read a few posts to get the idea on the pros and cons of each variation.
Usually the discussion is whether V2 or V3 holds more potential.

Since, I am playing V3. I can give you some intel. V3 has amazing damage. You can either play V3 as pressure variation (but this will only do it till you reach higher ranks and ppl know the matchup and your style, then it will be ez punish for them) or as whiff punishing variation (In my opinion the idea of this char).
For both you should know his best footsies.

d4, really good low. You can dash on hit into standing 1.
f4, nice +6 on block advancing move, good to use after d4 on hit, to open up your mind games. (f3,4)
Standing 1, 9frames poke +2 on block.
B4, in my opinion one of the best, if not the best, sweep. -2 on block (thus basically possible still your turn).
B3, good and long reaching attack. Amazing after d4 on block.
D2, amazing long reaching uppercut.

As big boy Shao, you wanna play mid screenish (d4 on hit allows you that), meaty(b4, back-throw) or creating frametraps (F4 or 4, 4).
What leads us to best strings.
4,4 is plus 6 on block.
F2, 4 is plus 2 on block, long reaching, overhead. CON: it starts with a high.
f3,4 has 10 frames startup. THIS string is your best friend, you can cancel your specials out of it or can start your mindgames. It is somewhat a 50/50 since you can either cancel it into shoulder-charge or end the string with a throw (f3,4,throw). Be careful the throw will change sides, and the shoulder is ez to punish.

Also worth mentioning is ji2, 4,4 is +6 on block, therefore you can use it as you use f4 and spice things up. Keep the opponent knocked down and the pressure is real.

V3 stuff. I am not explaining the hole variation, there is a thread (https://testyourmight.com/threads/3rd-variation-realm-destroyer-best-variation-post-aftermath-patch.73157/) you can read.
Takeaways: db1 breaks armor, good corner carry, amazing damage, ez to get punished on higher levels of play and most importantly db1 has a really nice brutality.

My goto online bnb is f3,4 xx bf3 mb, b3, b3, 4, db1. ~390 dmg 1 bar. (not optimal)
or
Corner: f3,4 xx bf3 mb, b3, b3, b3, 2,1, throw ~420 dmg 1 bar (cb potential)
Both combos are only executable if you are carring your opponent to the corner. Luckily v3 has a lot of corner carry. Basically, if you start the round with f4 on block (risky but possible) and while the opponent is mashing d1, you progress with f3,4.... you will end up in the corner with him, with him having 28% less hp and you in your comfort zone.

Worth mentioning: in the corner you can always take a breath and move half a screen away. That will let you stay in your kuddle zone and put a lot of pressure on your opponent since you can punish almost anything whiffing with b3 into 290 dmg(b3,b3,b3,2,1,throw).

That should help you, to get things rolling.

Edit: Added quote from below since I've missed it

... B2 is your most reliable footsie tool midscreen. It has more range and doesn't push the opponent away on hit , letting you jail 13,212,44 , etc. On top of that , if you hit someone jumping , you can do d1 into db1 ( V3) and get a combo

 

[wizgui]

V3 is currently the one I am using. You can read a few posts to get the idea on the pros and cons of each variation.
Usually the discussion is whether V2 or V3 holds more potential.

Since, I am playing V3. I can give you some intel. V3 has amazing damage. You can either play V3 as pressure variation (but this will only do it till you reach higher ranks and ppl know the matchup and your style, then it will be ez punish for them) or as whiff punishing variation (In my opinion the idea of this char).
For both you should know his best footsies.

d4, really good low. You can dash on hit into standing 1.
f4, nice +6 on block advancing move, good to use after d4 on hit, to open up your mind games. (f3,4)
Standing 1, 9frames poke +2 on block.
B4, in my opinion one of the best, if not the best, sweep. -2 on block (thus basically possible still your turn).
B3, good and long reaching attack. Amazing after d4 on block.
D2, amazing long reaching uppercut.

As big boy Shao, you wanna play mid screenish (d4 on hit allows you that), meaty(b4, back-throw) or creating frametraps (F4 or 4, 4).
What leads us to best strings.
4,4 is plus 6 on block.
F2, 4 is plus 2 on block, long reaching, overhead. CON: it starts with a high.
f3,4 has 10 frames startup. THIS string is your best friend, you can cancel your specials out of it or can start your mindgames. It is somewhat a 50/50 since you can either cancel it into shoulder-charge or end the string with a throw (f3,4,throw). Be careful the throw will change sides, and the shoulder is ez to punish.

Also worth mentioning is ji2, 4,4 is +6 on block, therefore you can use it as you use f4 and spice things up. Keep the opponent knocked down and the pressure is real.

V3 stuff. I am not explaining the hole variation, there is a thread (https://testyourmight.com/threads/3rd-variation-realm-destroyer-best-variation-post-aftermath-patch.73157/) you can read.
Takeaways: db1 breaks armor, good corner carry, amazing damage, ez to get punished on higher levels of play and most importantly db1 has a really nice brutality.

My goto online bnb is f3,4 xx bf3 mb, b3, b3, 4, db1. ~390 dmg 1 bar. (not optimal)
or
Corner: f3,4 xx bf3 mb, b3, b3, b3, 2,1, throw ~420 dmg 1 bar (cb potential)
Both combos are only executable if you are carring your opponent to the corner. Luckily v3 has a lot of corner carry. Basically, if you start the round with f4 on block (risky but possible) and while the opponent is mashing d1, you progress with f3,4.... you will end up in the corner with him, with him having 28% less hp and you in your comfort zone.

Worth mentioning: in the corner you can always take a breath and move half a screen away. That will let you stay in your kuddle zone and put a lot of pressure on your opponent since you can punish almost anything whiffing with b3 into 290 dmg(b3,b3,b3,2,1,throw).

That should help you, to get things rolling.

Whoa, that's an explanation!!!
I'll test V3 to see if i can play well.
Thanks!!!

 

[Error404]

@wizgui What isn't mentioned , but absolutely should be is B2. B2 is your most reliable footsie tool midscreen. It has more range and doesn't push the opponent away on hit , letting you jail 13,212,44 , etc. On top of that , if you hit someone jumping , you can do d1 into db1 ( V3) and get a combo

Trust me . When I picked this character up , I kept trying to advance with F2/F4 and no good player let me do it ever. B2 is absolutely a game changer

 

[Amios]

B2 is a nice progressing mid with good -6 on block, but in my opinion Shao has better options. After b2 on block your turn is over. Mashing buttons might be possible but will result in quite some hp loss if your opponent knows what he is doing.

Standing 1 on the other hand is +4 on block, enabling you to make 3,4 a 6 framer or 4,4 or b3 a 9 framer.

In my opinion Shao is amazing close up, but the region where he shines is mid, since he can frametrap the opponent enabling you to be close with plus frames on your side.

@Error404 I added your suggestion to my post to have all stuff in one place.

 

[Error404]

As dumb as it is, f3 hitconfirm seems to work better now. If you can do it. Everybody is so afraid of Shaos 2 bar combos now , that they just let you press F3 on them indefinetely.

 

[DixieFlatline78]

So if you connect a D4, you can react to it hitting and buffer a dash to jail a S1. I've been able to do it in match pretty consistently when I thought to do it. I've also been able to backdash on block and whiff punish a string with S14. This could probably open up D4 into wavedash throw or D4 into F4 for plus frames

 

[Pyrosis]

He's still trash

 

[Jowabunga]

He's never going to be mid-tier or higher. His kit just does not allow him to play the same game as everyone else.

 

[Pyrosis]

Everyone losing their minds over Shao Kahn just getting the same poke advantage that literally every character got.. It's not impressive. It's not that good. He's still absolute trash compared to all of the cast.

I have over 3,000 games on Shao. Like... trust me when I say these changes are minuscule and completely ineffective at making him competitive with other characters.

 

[Jowabunga]

It's not that great, but it's better than nothing, and it goes a long way toward eliminating some of the degenerate play that fucks him over.

Shao was my first character in 11 and my first main so I have a ton of time in too . I only ever play online vs. a local friend. This guy is firmly in the "mash downpoke after I've been hit by one" playstyle so for months,the character had no viable options after he hit with D1/D3 thanks to the paltry +10 on hit for both and the then-garbagey F34. Having the pokes be +15/15/20 now AND F34 being useful is a paradise relatively, but like I said, without a rework he's just not going to be in the same zipcode.

 

[Pyrosis]

Forward 3,4 is not useful

It's objectively one of the worst strings in the game. Maybe the worst.

 

[Jowabunga]

It's more useful than it was.

 

[Pyrosis]

I'm not trying to be pleased over scraps. I'm trying to be mad as fuck my character still can't compete with the cast, like he hasn't been able to since launch and still can't and more than like won't be able to for the foreseeable future. Probably for the rest of the game's lifespan.

 

[NoCharge]