Tech - Kitana Setups & mixups

[n0rv1s]

Hi all, in this video l added as many setups/mix'ups as l just could come out with, it was a mission to perform them all in one go lol.

Would like to know your opinions about it, is it good enough to be used in game play? If not, then why not? etc...

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

You mean gimmick?
Oh and turn tech roll and wake up on

 

[SM StarGazer]

You mean gimmick?
Oh and turn tech roll and wake up on

Be nice now...

 

[n0rv1s]

You mean gimmick?
Oh and turn tech roll and wake up on

l'm not sure that l actually understand meaning of 'gimmick'?

You right, tech roll and wake up should be on, l'm working on it for each separately. It was just simpler to put all together, bit of her potential on what we could work on, who knows maybe somebody will come out with really great ideas or just will prove why that does or doesn't work

 

[God Confirm]

Awesome video! Nice setups too.

 

[Skedar70]

Good job. Will practice some of these.

 

[FL Rushdown]

l'm not sure that l actually understand meaning of 'gimmick'?

in fighting games a gimmick is basically a setup/option that works because your opponent is unaware of the setup/doesn't know the matchup/ or is asleep at the wheel. It's usually something you can hit a good player with maybe one time, sometimes not at all if they've got matchup exp.

 

[n0rv1s]

in fighting games a gimmick is basically a setup/option that works because your opponent is unaware of the setup/doesn't know the matchup/ or is asleep at the wheel. It's usually something you can hit a good player with maybe one time, sometimes not at all if they've got matchup exp.

Thanks a lot man. Now l know l can agree that all video is full of gimmicks. It's true that against players who knows matchup hard to land it, however for me it works as options, if not to open your opponents then at least to press them. After all it's mind game

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

I found a lot of similar gimmick like this (like I do my F43 late to drop my combo on purpose to catch people not blocking with the 2nd hit). But honestly when I play against an experienced player, I never want to try any kind of oki or setup tech with kitana, simply because she has no mixup and almost every setup requires you to sacrifice some damage. Just do her best combo and throw fan.
(actually there is a armor breaking setup with her F1 dp but I'm researching more about it)

 

[n0rv1s]

f43 sounds as very dangerous idea on late wake up, also on block we aren't getting anything positive. l suggest 212 fan (tech roll isn't escape), combo launcher and safe push back on block, cheap damage covers your cost of sacrifice. U2 air float is another one which pretty safe to use when switching sides, mainly after hard knock downs, gives various ways to press your opponents.
It's never easy to play against exp-great player, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't be using more stuff from kitana's arsenal then just fans and jump ins.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

f43 sounds as very dangerous idea on late wake up, also on block we aren't getting anything positive. l suggest 212 fan (tech roll isn't escape), combo launcher and safe push back on block, cheap damage covers your cost of sacrifice. U2 air float is another one which pretty safe to use when switching sides, mainly after hard knock downs, gives various ways to press your opponents.
It's never easy to play against exp-great player, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't be using more stuff from kitana's arsenal then just fans and jump ins.

If you want a useful tech, I have a suggestion:
Pick Assasin, end a combo with the run (remember to set AI wake up random, choose a "common" wake up such as Johnny's ex shadow kick). Then walk forward and press F1 ex DB2. If you time correctly, F1 should whiff if Johnny doesn't wake up, F1 has good recovery so we can still continue pressure, if he wakes up our armor will eat and break his armor. That's my tech. The run is a hard knock down so no tech roll here

 

[HanSolo]

Can't so that in rs I'm assuming?

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Can't so that in rs I'm assuming?

The assasin run leads to a hard knock down that's plus million on hit. In order to do that in Royal Storm you must end combos with B2, which means you must sacrifice some damage. In assasin the combo is optimized already

 

[n0rv1s]

If you want a useful tech, I have a suggestion:
Pick Assasin, end a combo with the run (remember to set AI wake up random, choose a "common" wake up such as Johnny's ex shadow kick). Then walk forward and press F1 ex DB2. If you time correctly, F1 should whiff if Johnny doesn't wake up, F1 has good recovery so we can still continue pressure, if he wakes up our armor will eat and break his armor. That's my tech. The run is a hard knock down so no tech roll here

Alright, first of all thanks a lot for the hint, that gave me multiple ideas for further research. l didn't have much time in the past few days to test this on more characters, but so far it looks promising and that's what l have try'd yet:

In my opinion it's not necessary to finish combo with hard knock down assassin run and then walk forward by wasting 45 frames of hit adv, when in the mean time, for exp: we can have safe normal sharpen. This tech have much wider range of been useful then just be used after a'run. Definitely this makes kitty's corner game even stronger, well, at least for my eyes.
Kitana have few HKDs (a'run, f22, b2, b4, air fan) and plenty of ways to bait a wake up. Personally l prefer to sacrifice, regardless who is my opponent, 1%-2% or even more of damage for set up which may lead to full combo, throw or at least 2%-4% of cheap damage.
HKDs have various hit adv, so it makes timing harder, l think as a sioliution for different HKD it could be used different normal to set up and so keep timing similar for each of them, if that makes sense lol.

 

[exflyingbooty]

With kitana, this isn't necessary a mixup. I can notice that you're still in the air when you do this and it's not really catching anyone in a 50/50. This will beat mashing for sure which is practical because those look like situations where you can whiff punish kitana. Anyways i'll write a few of her real mixups.

Universal

Cross up float xx njp/b+3 /float xx land throw(can also do this with ex glaive in mournful)
b+1,4/b+1, x ray
2,1 d+3/ 2,1 x ray

Mournful
string into ex glaive b+1,4/b+2/b+3/throw
j.p glaive(ex)/b+3

Assassin
2,1 ex sharpen b+1,4/throw/b+2/b+3

 

[n0rv1s]

Well we know that she actually doesn't have a mix up, maybe apart those with x-ray, anything else is just tricks to open your opponent or just to keep a pressure.

like one of them:

cross up instant jip, cancel into float, njp
or ijik, ijip cancel into float

its like mileena's ijik into telekick, but just better , it looks like you wiffed and forces your opponent go for punishment...

 

[llabslb]

Say the opponent blocks after the knockdown. You're left at an adv after the 'set up' yes?

 

[n0rv1s]

Say the opponent blocks after the knockdown. You're left at an adv after the 'set up' yes?

Not sure about, need more work in lab. Logic says it should be negative, maybe not even safe

edit:

well for sure l can say, if to set up with f2, then on wiff it comes out as f22, wich is -6 on block, if to do it with b1, after wiff it goes as b12 which is +1 on block, them two normals could be ideal for it, but because of hit box makes this set up difficult or impossible

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

well for sure l can say, if to set up with f2, then on wiff it comes out as f22, wich is -6 on block, if to do it with b1, after wiff it goes as b12 which is +1 on block, them two normals could be ideal for it, but because of hit box makes this set up difficult or impossible

This is why I suggested F1, if it whiffs nothing came out and it's still your turn even after whiffing F1. B1 has terrible hit box, don't bother trying

 

[n0rv1s]

To late, already did lol.

F1 (23f recovery) seems good for it, but have an issue in the corner with low wake ups (like reptiles slide, scorpions 'takeout' etc...), it feels that f1 hit box is to far in front to connect it. So far as a best option l would pick standing 3 (21f recovery) for the corner set ups, it have an issue of wiff against wake ups which pulls opponent a bit back before hit (like reptile '2:10' in video), as a solution l came out with step forward then s3, or run cancel s3, works well after a bit of practice.

Also l had a look how it works against scorpion wake ups. Seems nothing works (or very difficult) against him in mid screen, when it comes to the corner s3 or f1 cancel into db2ex wiffs, after recovery of both, kitana have few frames of adv. Did few more tests with different s3 cancels (db3ex; bf3ex) and found that in this match up we should set up with: s3, bf3ex . It beats 'takeout' and wiffs 'flameport' for full punish. DB3ex doesn't recover in time.