Sektor and Crouching Hitboxes

[RomeoBravoDelta]

DanCock posted something in the Sindel Match-Up thread (back on March 22, no less) that I haven’t really seen anyone else mention. Namely, that "due to her big hit box she is one of the few characters where his [Sektor's] annoying strings always hit her block ducking and don’t whiff." This, challenging the conventional wisdom of "Just duck against Sektor." Curious, I decided to test this. I'm sure this is probably already know and isn't a huge deal, which is why it hasn't been talked about, but I'm going to go through the whole cast and see who all Sektor can hit in crouch block and neutral duck. Because 3D hitboxes.​

​

I will be testing his standing 1, 11, 12, 2, 3, and b34. If a number is bold-ed, that means that I am talking about that part of the string specifically. All these are tested mid-screen in training mode using the CPU command window. There is very little difference between midscreen and the corner, but if on any character there is a significant change it will be noted. I will be using a relative scale to measure each attacks propensity to connect, which indicate:

0 - Always wiffs
1 - Almost always wiffs, hits rarely
2 - Mostly wiffs, will hit occasionally
3 - Mostly hits, wiffs about a third of the time
4 - Hits reliably, will still wiff occasionally
5 - Always hits

This is in no way scientific, so if someone has a better idea on how to do this or a more accurate way of measuring things, then by all means tell me or start on your own. I will not take offense. I welcome and peer review. Or feel free to post suggestions in general.

I don’t really expect to be surprised by what I find, but it’s better to be redundant than to take something wrong for granted.

There's a more succinct summary at the bottom of the post.

(In alphabetical order)

BARAKA
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 4
11 – 4
12 – 4
12 - 4
2 – 5
3 – 5
B34 -5

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 5
12 – 0
12 - 5
2 – 0
3 – 5
B34 - 5

CYBER SUB-ZERO
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 2
11 – 2
12 – 1
12 - 0
2 – 3
3 – 1
B34 -5

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 2
12 – 0
12 - 1
2 – 0
3 – 2
B34 - 4

CYRAX
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 1
11 – 3
12 – 2
12 - 0
2 – 4
3 – 0
B34 -0

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 1
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 - 3

ERMAC
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 4
11 – 4
12 – 4
12 - 2
2 – 3
3 – 4
B34 - 0

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 - 1

FREDDY KRUEGER
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 5
11 – 5
12 – 5
12 - 5
2 – 5
3 – 5
B34 - 5

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 5
12 – 0
12 - 1
2 – 0
3 – 3
B34 - 5

JADE
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 3
11 – 4
12 – 4
12 - 0
2 – 5
3 – 1
B34 - 5

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 3
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 2
B34 - 5

JAX
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 - 0

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 2
12 – 0
12 - 1
2 – 0
3 – 2
B34 - 4

JOHNNY CAGE
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 - 0

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 3
B34 - 0

KABAL
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 1
3 – 0
B34 - 0

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 5
12 – 0
12 - 5
2 – 0
3 – 5
B34 - 5

KANO
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 1
3 – 0
B34 - 0

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 1
12 – 0
12 - 2
2 – 0
3 – 2
B34 - 4

KENSHI
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 5
11 – 5
12 – 5
12 - 5
2 – 5
3 – 5
B34 - 5

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 5
12 – 0
12 - 5
2 – 0
3 – 5
B34 - 5


KITANA
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 10
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 - 0

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 1
B34 – 0

KRATOS
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 5
11 – 5
12 – 5
12 - 5
2 – 5
3 – 5
B34 - 5

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 5
12 – 0
12 - 5
2 – 0
3 – 5
B34 – 1

KUNG LAO
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 - 0

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 – 0

LIU KANG
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 4
11 – 4
12 – 4
12 - 4
2 – 5
3 – 5
B34 - 5

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 5
12 – 0
12 - 5
2 – 0
3 – 5
B34 – 5

MILEENA
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 - 0

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 – 0

NIGHTWOLF
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 1
11 – 1
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 - 0

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 5
12 – 0
12 - 3
2 – 0
3 – 3
B34 – 5

NOOB SAIBOT
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 2
11 – 5
12 – 4
12 - 4
2 – 5
3 – 4
B34 - 5

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 5
12 – 0
12 - 5
2 – 0
3 – 4
B34 – 5

QUAN CHI
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 - 0

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 – 5

RAIDEN
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 5
11 – 5
12 – 5
12 - 5
2 – 5
3 – 5
B34 - 5

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 5
12 – 0
12 - 5
2 – 0
3 – 5
B34 – 5

RAIN
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 3
11 – 4
12 – 2
12 - 4
2 – 5
3 – 5
B34 - 5

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 5
12 – 0
12 - 5
2 – 0
3 – 5
B34 – 5

REPTILE
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 - 0

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 2
2 – 0
3 – 5
B34 – 0

SCORPION
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 4
11 – 3
12 – 1
12 - 0
2 – 3
3 – 1
B34 - 5

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 – 0

SEKTOR
Ducking and Blocking
1 –0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 – 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 – 0

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 -0
12 – 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 - 4


SHANG TSUNG
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 5
11 – 5
12 – 5
12 - 5
2 – 5
3 – 5
B34 - 5

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 5
12 – 0
12 - 5
2 – 0
3 – 5
B34 – 5

SHEEVA
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 4
11 – 4
12 – 4
12 – 2
2 – 4
3 – 4
B34 – 4

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 5
12 -0
12 – 5
2 – 0
3 – 5
B34 - 5

SINDEL
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 3
11 – 1
12 – 1
12 – 0
2 – 3
3 – 1
B34 – 5

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 -0
12 – 3
2 – 0
3 – 3
B34 - 5

SKARLET
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 1
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 - 0

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 2
12 – 0
12 - 1
2 – 0
3 – 5
B34 – 5

SMOKE
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 1
11 – 2
12 – 1
12 - 0
2 – 1
3 – 0
B34 - 0

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 5
12 – 0
12 - 5
2 – 0
3 – 5
B34 – 5

SONYA BLADE
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 0
11 – 1
12 – 4
12 - 0
2 – 2
3 – 0
B34 - 5

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 5
12 – 0
12 - 5
2 – 0
3 – 5
B34 – 5

STRYKER
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 5
11 – 4
12 – 4
12 - 4
2 – 5
3 – 5
B34 - 5

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 5
12 – 0
12 - 5
2 – 0
3 – 5
B34 – 5

SUB-ZERO
Ducking and Blocking
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 0
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 - 0

Neutral Duck
1 – 0
11 – 0
12 – 0
12 - 3
2 – 0
3 – 0
B34 – 0

CONCLUSIONS

Characters that Sektor can pressure
Baraka (4s & 5s)
Freddy Kreuger (5s)
Kenshi (5s)
Kratos (5s)
Liu Kang (4s & 5s)
Noob Saibot* (4s & 5s)
Raiden (5s)
Shang Tsung (5s)
Sheeva* (4s)
Stryker (4s & 5s)

*=One number other than the indicated in their list

These characters cannot duck and block any of Sektor's strings and can be pressured when blocking crouched. Other characters have certain strings that work against them, but these are the only ones where they all work, save for the indicated. If you are unsure about the character you are fighting, use 21~Special or 214. 2 connects on the majority of the cast with some regularity and is your safest bet.

Characters that don't require buffering on b34
Baraka
Cyber Sub-Zero
Freddy Kreuger
Jade
Kenshi
Kratos
Liu Kang
Noob Saibot
Raiden
Rain
Scorpion
Shang Tsung
Sheeva
Sindel
Sonya
Stryker

These characters do not require any special spacing for the 4 of a blocked b34 to connect. The 4 will connect on all characters if b3 or d3 (depending on the character) is blocked first, with the exception of Mileena and Sektor, which will always duck it.

Hopefully you all will find this information useful.

 

[PPJ]

gooooooooooooood shit

 

[dribirut]

love the idea man great stuff keep at it. deffffff helpful

 

[RomeoBravoDelta]

Things opened up for me and I was able to get Cyrax and Ermac in. From now on characters will be added in alphabetical order and listed as such.

Also, a note on b34 since it's probably not clear. When I'm talking about the 4 hitting on crouch block, I'm talking about point blank range. The 4 connects at the "sweet spot" on all characters (so far at least). On neutral duck, I'm talking about whiffing the 3 at about as close as you can get.

Also, for the record, there's no appreciable difference between the Human and Robo Cyrax and Sektor. At most, 1 on Cyblax may be a 2.

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

I just group characters in 3 categories for Sektor; all of which revolve around the 4 in b34 whiffing while blocking low.

The categories are:
0- Always Whiff
1- Whiffs without being buffered
2- Doesn't need to be buffered
(you can buffer or find the perfect spacing for b34 by your opponent blocking a b3 or a d3 then doing a b34)

As far as I know the list looks like this at the moment:

0- Mileena, Sektor
1- every other character
2- Freddy, Sheeva, Sindel, Kenshi, Raiden, Scorpion, Noob

 

[NKZero]

Wow this is good stuff. Cannot wait to see the finished product .

 

[RomeoBravoDelta]

Updated with list with CSZ, Freddy, Jade, Jax, Cage, Kabal, Kano, and Kenshi.

Man, what is going on with Freddy and Kenshi? Not even Sheeva has to deal with that.

So far, it's looking like things aren't quite as bad as we initially though for Sektor. They certainly could be better, but at the very least there are a growing number of characters that you don't need to find the sweet spot for b34 on.

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

Updated with list with CSZ, Freddy, Jade, Jax, Cage, Kabal, Kano, and Kenshi.

Man, what is going on with Freddy and Kenshi? Not even Sheeva has to deal with that.

So far, it's looking like things aren't quite as bad as we initially though for Sektor. They certainly could be better, but at the very least there are a growing number of characters that you don't need to find the sweet spot for b34 on.

Are you sure the 4 in b34 always whiffs against Kano? I was pretty sure you could buffer against every character but Mileena and Sektor. And I know you can buffer against Jax for sure.

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

Okay, just went and tested the b34 against some characters to be sure. You can buffer b34 on Jax by doing a blocked d3. Afterwords the 4 will not whiff.

Kano can be buffed by a blocked d3 OR b3.

Cage can be buffed by a b3 but not a d3.


EDIT: concerning the standing 1 whiffing; one some of the larger (but not extra large) hit boxes you can make it not whiff by dashing in and doing it very quickly. It's not very practical in matches however. Also every uppercut in the game lowers characters hit boxes enough that the 12 string will whiff and get punished. So even characters like Freddy and Kenshi can still uppercut punish you for trying to stagger a 12, 12b1. Hell, they can even interrupt on the first string if they are quick enough since the second hit whiffs as well. This leaves the 6 frame jab as a great punisher and string to be used to interrupt other characters when they try to stagger strings. It's not a tool to be used for footsies or poking.

 

[RomeoBravoDelta]

Are you sure the 4 in b34 always whiffs against Kano? I was pretty sure you could buffer against every character but Mileena and Sektor. And I know you can buffer against Jax for sure.

I said earlier that when I'm talking about a blocked b34, I'm doing it at point blank range. The 4 will hit everyone (except Sektor and Mileena) if you are spaced correctly. There are more characters than initially though that don't requite buffering.

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

I said earlier that when I'm talking about a blocked b34, I'm doing it at point blank range. The 4 will hit everyone (except Sektor and Mileena) if you are spaced correctly. There are more characters than initially though that don't requite buffering.

Ahh I see. I think there's really only around 5-6 characters that don't need to be buffered. Of them only 3 are going to be seen at high level play; Freddy, Kenshi, Raiden.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Oh kenshi, why must you be so fucking tall?

 

[RomeoBravoDelta]

Updated with Kitana, Kratos (would have bothered me if I didn't include him), Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Mileena, Nightwolf, Noob, and Quan.

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

Oh kenshi, why must you be so fucking tall?

Because he is blind.

 

[RomeoBravoDelta]

Rounded off the rest of the roster with Raiden, Rain, Reptile, Shang, Skarlet, Smoke, Sonya, Stryker, and Sub. I also make some brief summaries of the more useful information at the bottom of the post that I'll repost here to make it easier for those that want to respond so you don't have to deal with the massive list.

CONCLUSIONS

Characters that Sektor can pressure
Baraka (4s & 5s)
Freddy Kreuger (5s)
Kenshi (5s)
Kratos (5s)
Liu Kang (4s & 5s)
Noob Saibot* (4s & 5s)
Raiden (5s)
Shang Tsung (5s)
Sheeva* (4s)
Stryker (4s & 5s)

*=One number other than the indicated in their list

These characters cannot duck and block any of Sektor's strings and can be pressured when blocking crouched. Other characters have certain strings that work against them, but these are the only ones where they all work, save for the indicated. If you are unsure about the character you are fighting, use 21~Special or 214. 2 connects on the majority of the cast with some regularity and is your safest bet.

Characters that don't require buffering on b34
Baraka
Cyber Sub-Zero
Freddy Kreuger
Jade
Kenshi
Kratos
Liu Kang
Noob Saibot
Raiden
Rain
Scorpion
Shang Tsung
Sheeva
Sindel
Sonya
Stryker

These characters do not require any special spacing for the 4 of a blocked b34 to connect. The 4 will connect on all characters if b3 or d3 (depending on the character) is blocked first, with the exception of Mileena and Sektor, which will always duck it.

I really hope you guys find this information beneficial. I, for one, am just glad to know that Sektor isn't totally and completely helpless against ducking. He'll still get blown up with d3 and d4 though, so this stuff most likely won't be much of a game changer for anyone.

 

[Full Boat]

Wow, this is great!

 

[NKZero]

RomeoBravoDelta excellent work mate . Really valuable stuff which will immediately make my guide as well. Also you did Kratos?! Extra bonus points